Don't we already have a healthy PJ3 IN JJJ?

[elcotte]

Not even close.

JJJ doesn't have the ceiling or athleticism of PJIII. He doesn't have some of the baggage, but PJIII will EASILY eclipse him as a pro if he develops any work ethic at all.

This isn't even remotely a legitimate comparison.

The things that you make yourself believe just astound me. I guarantee you haven't even seen Johnson play a single college game. In fact I bet all you've seen is the 5 minutes here and there running around with the scrubs of each side and you've decided you're self proclaimed basketball expert mind can't see him having anything to contribute because we passed on Brooks to take JJJ.

JaJuan Johnsons final year: 20.5 points and 8.6 rebounds a game.
They both shoot 30% from the three point line too.
Jones as a sophomore and the 'go to guy' was 13.5 points per game and 7.6 rebounds per game off 54% shooting.

I have no problem with Jones, I think he's great. But you have the gall to say that Johnson doesn't compare athletically to Jones? Do you know that Johnson had the highest vertical reach in the 2011 NBA draft combine? Have you seen him go up and touch the mid way point on the backboard?
You don't have any idea what Johnson's capable of and you've already written him because Ainge didn't take Marhson Brooks and his 12.6 points off 42% shooting and 30% three point shooting as a starter on the Nets. You think if Johnson was starting forward on the Nets he couldn't put up similar or better numbers?
He's twice the defender that Brooks is too. I'm done wasting my time. I have no idea about your age but you talk like a stereotypical elderly basketball fan who knows everything. One would think you've convinced yourself that you're some kind of expert after watching them for 5 minute stints as NBA rookies on championship contending teams.
It's simply not justified.

Your insults are duly noted.

Meanwhile, I coached college basketball for a time. There is NOTHING in your hyper-evaluation of Johnson that I agree with. Nothing. Comparing him or the wildly flawed attempts to elevate him above Perry Jones III to make a fan feel better are duly noted, but don't expect me to let them stand.

Say it again: There is no legitimate comparison between Johnson and PJIII. None. If Danny passed on PJIII because he has Johnson - which no sane general manager would - he's a fool.

Danny's no fool. He's played and coached at the NBA level and has a championship to his name. What possible motive could he have for passing on PJIII if it's so completely obvious? I mean really.

[droopdog7]

Not even close.

JJJ doesn't have the ceiling or athleticism of PJIII. He doesn't have some of the baggage, but PJIII will EASILY eclipse him as a pro if he develops any work ethic at all.

This isn't even remotely a legitimate comparison.

The things that you make yourself believe just astound me. I guarantee you haven't even seen Johnson play a single college game. In fact I bet all you've seen is the 5 minutes here and there running around with the scrubs of each side and you've decided you're self proclaimed basketball expert mind can't see him having anything to contribute because we passed on Brooks to take JJJ.

JaJuan Johnsons final year: 20.5 points and 8.6 rebounds a game.
They both shoot 30% from the three point line too.
Jones as a sophomore and the 'go to guy' was 13.5 points per game and 7.6 rebounds per game off 54% shooting.

I have no problem with Jones, I think he's great. But you have the gall to say that Johnson doesn't compare athletically to Jones? Do you know that Johnson had the highest vertical reach in the 2011 NBA draft combine? Have you seen him go up and touch the mid way point on the backboard?
You don't have any idea what Johnson's capable of and you've already written him because Ainge didn't take Marhson Brooks and his 12.6 points off 42% shooting and 30% three point shooting as a starter on the Nets. You think if Johnson was starting forward on the Nets he couldn't put up similar or better numbers?
He's twice the defender that Brooks is too. I'm done wasting my time. I have no idea about your age but you talk like a stereotypical elderly basketball fan who knows everything. One would think you've convinced yourself that you're some kind of expert after watching them for 5 minute stints as NBA rookies on championship contending teams.
It's simply not justified.

Your insults are duly noted.

Meanwhile, I coached college basketball for a time. There is NOTHING in your hyper-evaluation of Johnson that I agree with. Nothing. Comparing him or the wildly flawed attempts to elevate him above Perry Jones III to make a fan feel better are duly noted, but don't expect me to let them stand.

Say it again: There is no legitimate comparison between Johnson and PJIII. None. If Danny passed on PJIII because he has Johnson - which no sane general manager would - he's a fool.

Here's the importatn point to me.  Jones doesn't want it.  That much is clear as day.  Will the light ever turn on?  It's always possible but I would not call it likely.

In terms of Chambers' points.  There is some legitimacy to the fact that people forget that JJJ was a good player too.  People see he didn't play much and assume he is garbage.  The fact is, we are comparing JJJ (with his work ethic) to Jones (with his).  Like many people say, playing hard is a skill.  Some people have more of that skill than others.

I would not have touched Jones with a ten foot pole and am glad DA didn't pick the guy. 

[celtsfan84]

Not even close.

JJJ doesn't have the ceiling or athleticism of PJIII. He doesn't have some of the baggage, but PJIII will EASILY eclipse him as a pro if he develops any work ethic at all.

This isn't even remotely a legitimate comparison.

The things that you make yourself believe just astound me. I guarantee you haven't even seen Johnson play a single college game. In fact I bet all you've seen is the 5 minutes here and there running around with the scrubs of each side and you've decided you're self proclaimed basketball expert mind can't see him having anything to contribute because we passed on Brooks to take JJJ.

JaJuan Johnsons final year: 20.5 points and 8.6 rebounds a game.
They both shoot 30% from the three point line too.
Jones as a sophomore and the 'go to guy' was 13.5 points per game and 7.6 rebounds per game off 54% shooting.

I have no problem with Jones, I think he's great. But you have the gall to say that Johnson doesn't compare athletically to Jones? Do you know that Johnson had the highest vertical reach in the 2011 NBA draft combine? Have you seen him go up and touch the mid way point on the backboard?
You don't have any idea what Johnson's capable of and you've already written him because Ainge didn't take Marhson Brooks and his 12.6 points off 42% shooting and 30% three point shooting as a starter on the Nets. You think if Johnson was starting forward on the Nets he couldn't put up similar or better numbers?
He's twice the defender that Brooks is too. I'm done wasting my time. I have no idea about your age but you talk like a stereotypical elderly basketball fan who knows everything. One would think you've convinced yourself that you're some kind of expert after watching them for 5 minute stints as NBA rookies on championship contending teams.
It's simply not justified.

Your insults are duly noted.

Meanwhile, I coached college basketball for a time. There is NOTHING in your hyper-evaluation of Johnson that I agree with. Nothing. Comparing him or the wildly flawed attempts to elevate him above Perry Jones III to make a fan feel better are duly noted, but don't expect me to let them stand.

Say it again: There is no legitimate comparison between Johnson and PJIII. None. If Danny passed on PJIII because he has Johnson - which no sane general manager would - he's a fool.

Danny's no fool. He's played and coached at the NBA level and has a championship to his name. What possible motive could he have for passing on PJIII if it's so completely obvious? I mean really.

Ainge has been wrong on draft picks before. So has Belichick. So has everyone else.  We all have the right to disagree on draft picks.  Personally, I like Sullinger, hate Melo, and wish we took PJ3. JaJuan's ceiling seems much lower than PJ3's to me.

If we all agreed, why bother to have a forum?

[droopdog7]

Not even close.

JJJ doesn't have the ceiling or athleticism of PJIII. He doesn't have some of the baggage, but PJIII will EASILY eclipse him as a pro if he develops any work ethic at all.

This isn't even remotely a legitimate comparison.

The things that you make yourself believe just astound me. I guarantee you haven't even seen Johnson play a single college game. In fact I bet all you've seen is the 5 minutes here and there running around with the scrubs of each side and you've decided you're self proclaimed basketball expert mind can't see him having anything to contribute because we passed on Brooks to take JJJ.

JaJuan Johnsons final year: 20.5 points and 8.6 rebounds a game.
They both shoot 30% from the three point line too.
Jones as a sophomore and the 'go to guy' was 13.5 points per game and 7.6 rebounds per game off 54% shooting.

I have no problem with Jones, I think he's great. But you have the gall to say that Johnson doesn't compare athletically to Jones? Do you know that Johnson had the highest vertical reach in the 2011 NBA draft combine? Have you seen him go up and touch the mid way point on the backboard?
You don't have any idea what Johnson's capable of and you've already written him because Ainge didn't take Marhson Brooks and his 12.6 points off 42% shooting and 30% three point shooting as a starter on the Nets. You think if Johnson was starting forward on the Nets he couldn't put up similar or better numbers?
He's twice the defender that Brooks is too. I'm done wasting my time. I have no idea about your age but you talk like a stereotypical elderly basketball fan who knows everything. One would think you've convinced yourself that you're some kind of expert after watching them for 5 minute stints as NBA rookies on championship contending teams.
It's simply not justified.

Your insults are duly noted.

Meanwhile, I coached college basketball for a time. There is NOTHING in your hyper-evaluation of Johnson that I agree with. Nothing. Comparing him or the wildly flawed attempts to elevate him above Perry Jones III to make a fan feel better are duly noted, but don't expect me to let them stand.

Say it again: There is no legitimate comparison between Johnson and PJIII. None. If Danny passed on PJIII because he has Johnson - which no sane general manager would - he's a fool.

Danny's no fool. He's played and coached at the NBA level and has a championship to his name. What possible motive could he have for passing on PJIII if it's so completely obvious? I mean really.

Ainge has been wrong on draft picks before. So has Belichick. So has everyone else.  We all have the right to disagree on draft picks.  Personally, I like Sullinger, hate Melo, and wish we took PJ3. JaJuan's ceiling seems much lower than PJ3's to me.

If we all agreed, why bother to have a forum?

I understand that no GM s perfect; from far it.  And I understand that many fans do not agree with picks when they are made.  But let's not act like we as fans are making some kind of informed observation about a guy.  We're not.  None of us our breaking down tape or talking to any of these guys.  Mostly, we are looking at youtube videos and going on hype. 

[Celtic#9]

Nope, PJ3 is purely potential. He has potential to be a star. JJJ produced very well but nowhere near as much potential, whereas PJ3 had a very average college career and enourmous potential. JJJ doesn't have that potential which is why he went 27th(?)in a weak draft.

 I think Johnson has potential. He is already at about an Amir Johnson level in my opinion. He still needs to bulk up but he won't be a real back to the basket guy more of a pick and pop Still a quality player. Verdict is still out on him. 

[droopdog7]

Nope, PJ3 is purely potential. He has potential to be a star. JJJ produced very well but nowhere near as much potential, whereas PJ3 had a very average college career and enourmous potential. JJJ doesn't have that potential which is why he went 27th(?)in a weak draft.
 I think Johnson has potential. He is already at about an Amir Johnson level in my opinion. He still needs to bulk up but he won't be a real back to the basket guy more of a pick and pop Still a quality player. Verdict is still out on him. 

Um, you do know PJIII went 28th in an overhyped draft.  Guy was drafted afeter Miles Plumlee for gods sake.

[celts55]

All I know is 27 other teams let this PJ3 slide also, so I assume there is some reason he didn't go until 28th pick.

As for Johnson, I think it is somewhat unfair to judge him based on last year. First, Doc isn't known for playing rookies. Second due to strike there was no summer leagues, a very short train camp, and much fewer practices during the season. Personally I'm looking forward to seeing how he does in the summer leagues and after going though a real training camp.
I don't see how people can deside what his cealing might be based on last year.

Lastly, I remember quite a few people saying Bradley was a bust during the early part of last season and he turned out alright.

[SHAQATTACK]

I'm still hoping JJJ will come around .  It was a short /crazy season , without alot of team work outs and time for JJJ & Moore to grow up .  

JJJ is at least very heathly , strong and game. I'm for giving him another year to get his best ball going.

Doc does ignore the rookies , but he is focused on winning #18, the handling  Rondo, KG , Allen and Pierce ...  more than catering to the kids needs.
For better or worse ..thats Doc.

[celtsfan84]

All I know is 27 other teams let this PJ3 slide also, so I assume there is some reason he didn't go until 28th pick.

As for Johnson, I think it is somewhat unfair to judge him based on last year. First, Doc isn't known for playing rookies. Second due to strike there was no summer leagues, a very short train camp, and much fewer practices during the season. Personally I'm looking forward to seeing how he does in the summer leagues and after going though a real training camp.
I don't see how people can deside what his cealing might be based on last year.

Lastly, I remember quite a few people saying Bradley was a bust during the early part of last season and he turned out alright.

The rumor was that PJ3 had a red flag for a medical issue regarding his knee, so most of his drop seemed medical related and not play related.  I think medical risks are worth it in the 20s, when your typical return is so low anyway.  And 26 other teams let this JJJ slide so I assume there is some reason he didn't go until the 27th pick.

I remember quite a few saying JR Giddens was a bust and he didn't turn out alright.  So, we'll see.

[celtsfan84]

Not even close.

JJJ doesn't have the ceiling or athleticism of PJIII. He doesn't have some of the baggage, but PJIII will EASILY eclipse him as a pro if he develops any work ethic at all.

This isn't even remotely a legitimate comparison.

The things that you make yourself believe just astound me. I guarantee you haven't even seen Johnson play a single college game. In fact I bet all you've seen is the 5 minutes here and there running around with the scrubs of each side and you've decided you're self proclaimed basketball expert mind can't see him having anything to contribute because we passed on Brooks to take JJJ.

JaJuan Johnsons final year: 20.5 points and 8.6 rebounds a game.
They both shoot 30% from the three point line too.
Jones as a sophomore and the 'go to guy' was 13.5 points per game and 7.6 rebounds per game off 54% shooting.

I have no problem with Jones, I think he's great. But you have the gall to say that Johnson doesn't compare athletically to Jones? Do you know that Johnson had the highest vertical reach in the 2011 NBA draft combine? Have you seen him go up and touch the mid way point on the backboard?
You don't have any idea what Johnson's capable of and you've already written him because Ainge didn't take Marhson Brooks and his 12.6 points off 42% shooting and 30% three point shooting as a starter on the Nets. You think if Johnson was starting forward on the Nets he couldn't put up similar or better numbers?
He's twice the defender that Brooks is too. I'm done wasting my time. I have no idea about your age but you talk like a stereotypical elderly basketball fan who knows everything. One would think you've convinced yourself that you're some kind of expert after watching them for 5 minute stints as NBA rookies on championship contending teams.
It's simply not justified.

Your insults are duly noted.

Meanwhile, I coached college basketball for a time. There is NOTHING in your hyper-evaluation of Johnson that I agree with. Nothing. Comparing him or the wildly flawed attempts to elevate him above Perry Jones III to make a fan feel better are duly noted, but don't expect me to let them stand.

Say it again: There is no legitimate comparison between Johnson and PJIII. None. If Danny passed on PJIII because he has Johnson - which no sane general manager would - he's a fool.

Danny's no fool. He's played and coached at the NBA level and has a championship to his name. What possible motive could he have for passing on PJIII if it's so completely obvious? I mean really.

Ainge has been wrong on draft picks before. So has Belichick. So has everyone else.  We all have the right to disagree on draft picks.  Personally, I like Sullinger, hate Melo, and wish we took PJ3. JaJuan's ceiling seems much lower than PJ3's to me.

If we all agreed, why bother to have a forum?

I understand that no GM s perfect; from far it.  And I understand that many fans do not agree with picks when they are made.  But let's not act like we as fans are making some kind of informed observation about a guy.  We're not.  None of us our breaking down tape or talking to any of these guys.  Mostly, we are looking at youtube videos and going on hype. 

Well you can say that from a positive or negative standpoint.  And there are plenty of scouts and analysts who break down tape and talk to the guys and think PJ3 ws a prime prospect.  Jay Bilas, who basically analyzes the college game for a living, had him as the 10th best prospect this year, for instance.

Those who break down tape and analyze these guys rank PJ3 higher this year than they ranked JJJ last year.

[Bosstown]

I am guilty of somewhat forgetting about JJJ, he did not look that good to me last year in the small stints he got but im sure nerves had a lot to do with it.

That being said, I was very high on JJJ coming out of Baylor and he was my hopeful to fall to the celtics and we ended up with him. IF he adds some more weight he should be very nice next season but his frail frame scares me and it always has.

What does JJJ being a far superior defender now have to do with anything? PJIII has MORE potential then JJJ. JJJ's ceiling is lower then PJIII. Period. End of story. Could PJIII be a bust? Of course, but he could be a perennial all-star if he gets his stuff together. I thought he was well worth the risk at 21.

[xmuscularghandix]

They're completely different players. PJIII is a SF/PF, JJJ is strictly a PF. PJIII has some handle, JJJ has zero handle. PJIII has a high ceiling (if he works hard that is, kid has all the tools to be a star) and I personally think JJJ's ceiling is a role player in the NBA. I think we're going to regret passing up PJIII, I remember how upset I was when we took JR Giddens over D'Andre Jordan a few years ago. I got the same feeling in my stomach last night.

PJ III is not a lock there's a reason he fell.

You're also giving JJJ no credit for being a FAR superior defender.

Also, why do I care if my PF has a handle when this team has the NBA's assist leader?

[Celtic#9]

Nope, PJ3 is purely potential. He has potential to be a star. JJJ produced very well but nowhere near as much potential, whereas PJ3 had a very average college career and enourmous potential. JJJ doesn't have that potential which is why he went 27th(?)in a weak draft.
 I think Johnson has potential. He is already at about an Amir Johnson level in my opinion. He still needs to bulk up but he won't be a real back to the basket guy more of a pick and pop Still a quality player. Verdict is still out on him. 

Um, you do know PJIII went 28th in an overhyped draft.  Guy was drafted afeter Miles Plumlee for gods sake.

How can you say overhyped? We haven't seen a single player play in the NBA. For all we know all 7 of the top 7 could be all stars. Likely won't happen but how do you know? This is suppossed to be one of the deepest drafts ever. Also PJ3 is red flagged(as if he wasn't risky enough). No question he is a top 10 talent, he just probably won't pan out. 

[arambone]

PJ3 has more potential, but he's a reluctant power forward who wishes he was a SF. He's not a SF. He tried to prove he was pre-draft, but failed miserably.

So PJ3 is a reluctant PF who hates contact. Sure he has more potential than PJ3, but the upgrade wouldn't be much, if any, in all likelihood.

Maybe that's part of why JJJ got drafted higher than PJ3, despite coming out in a weaker draft.

Same goes for Moultrie. Doesn't like contact, and would only be a slight upgrade over JJJ.

At least Melo likes contact, and knows what his role will be and accepts it.

[RockinRyA]

Not even close.

JJJ doesn't have the ceiling or athleticism of PJIII. He doesn't have some of the baggage, but PJIII will EASILY eclipse him as a pro if he develops any work ethic at all.

This isn't even remotely a legitimate comparison.

The things that you make yourself believe just astound me. I guarantee you haven't even seen Johnson play a single college game. In fact I bet all you've seen is the 5 minutes here and there running around with the scrubs of each side and you've decided you're self proclaimed basketball expert mind can't see him having anything to contribute because we passed on Brooks to take JJJ.

JaJuan Johnsons final year: 20.5 points and 8.6 rebounds a game.
They both shoot 30% from the three point line too.
Jones as a sophomore and the 'go to guy' was 13.5 points per game and 7.6 rebounds per game off 54% shooting.

I have no problem with Jones, I think he's great. But you have the gall to say that Johnson doesn't compare athletically to Jones? Do you know that Johnson had the highest vertical reach in the 2011 NBA draft combine? Have you seen him go up and touch the mid way point on the backboard?
You don't have any idea what Johnson's capable of and you've already written him because Ainge didn't take Marhson Brooks and his 12.6 points off 42% shooting and 30% three point shooting as a starter on the Nets. You think if Johnson was starting forward on the Nets he couldn't put up similar or better numbers?
He's twice the defender that Brooks is too. I'm done wasting my time. I have no idea about your age but you talk like a stereotypical elderly basketball fan who knows everything. One would think you've convinced yourself that you're some kind of expert after watching them for 5 minute stints as NBA rookies on championship contending teams.
It's simply not justified.

Im not a fan of the melo pick, but assume the celtics have a better idea of where he's at because they worked him out (and even leaked out news that he stunk). But i believe PJ3 is redundant with green and jjj, all 3 are athletic tweeners, with some (pj3 and jjj) more suited for the 4 while green is more suited for the 3. I believe there's 2 factors in considering the picks.

1) ainge was only willing to take 1 injury risk player, and he chose sullinger because of his attitude and play style.
2) since he took a pf in the 21st, and we have KG+jj and in some way green, there's little reason to take another pf with the second pick esp since there is also reason no. 1

and yeah i agree with you about the above poster