How's my Historical Team? (Awesome right!)

[Rondo2287]

I dunno, I think only having one player in your starting 5 that made it to the finals puts you at a disadvantage when you match up against some of the better teams but thats just my opinion. 

I dunno, we got what 27 years of history to pick from I find it strange that so many teams don't have guys that won.  And I know the NBA has alot of repeat title winners, Lakers, Spurs Etc.  But still just seems like there should be more title winners scattered through the starting lineups than there are.

Perhaps because "winning a title" isn't a useful basketball skill.

Its not like any team here is short on playoff experience or veteran leadership.

You don't think Winning a title is valuable experience when it comes to winning another one? 

Yes every team here has playoff experience, but I'll take a guy that went toe to toe against the best teams the league had to offer and came out on top that year than somebody who played for a team that came out with a record around .500 and got knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.  (And of course im talking about similar talent levels, not Scal vs Karl Malone)

But you don't talk about specific players lacking experience in big moments, that's something I can understand. Instead you're talking about just counting rings and using that as a substitute for analysis.

I completely buy that deep or repeated playoff experience is valuable on a team. I don't think "winning the finals" is somehow superior to  "losing a tough finals" or losing a tough ECF etc.

Well thats just cause i don't wanna pick players apart but since you asked. 

I look at Dwight's team that lost the finals 4-1 and thats the only finals experience Dwight has, Rashard Lewis was the best player for the magic in that series IMO.  So when I look at Dwight I see a guy that didnt step up and play his best in the most important series and hasn't gotten back to that level since, (Though his teams have regressed since then)

Deron's team won its division and lost in the second round of the playoffs 4-2 against the eventual WC winner.  Deron had a solid playoff performance averaging 21 and 10.  But a second round loss doesnt really excite me when you are talking about picking a players from the last 27 years.

Ray's team lost in game 7 of the Conference finals and Ray played a hell of a playoffs that year.  Nothing wrong with that.  Probably the best playoff performer of the starting 5.  Ray shot almost %50 from 3 in those playoffs which when you combine that with the rest of his game at that point of his career its deadly. 

Love has never made the playoffs and while playing for some rough teams has only finished out of last place once in his career (rookie season)

The 09-10 Deng lost in the first round and was beat pretty handly by Lebron.  The same Lebron who then quit on his team in the following round against the celtics.

You are trying to hold the following against my team?


Williams team lost to a better team in the 2nd round of the playoff in 6 games.  


Howard carried a team to the Finals where the 2nd best player was Lewis.


My SF lost to a Lebron team?  Lebron didn't quit against Boston, Boston's defense was just to much for a single player with little help to over come.  (Kobe's numbers were similar except he had help)

I agree Love hasn't been to the playoffs, but he is going from a team where he is the best player to a team where you could argue he is the 6th or 7th best player.  


Meanwhile, other players on my bench also have playoff experience.  Including multiple rings.  

Im not holding anything against your team, I just pointed out that a second round loss in this format doesn't really impress me. 

Dwight going to the finals is good and he deserves credit for getting there but he lost and wasnt the best player on his team in that series.  And at that point also Rashard was still on the Juice most likely, and was a very good player.  Dwight gets credit for this and his team beat the Cavs which nobody really saw coming, so all the credit to him. 

And Lebron did quit on boston, lets not start the revisionist history here.  Deng was outplayed pretty strongly in that series and if it were me I would have picked a different year for Deng. 

And what you say about love can be said for countless players in this format, it doesnt change the fact that he hasnt been able to get his team out of last place any of the last 3 years.

[wdleehi]

I dunno, I think only having one player in your starting 5 that made it to the finals puts you at a disadvantage when you match up against some of the better teams but thats just my opinion. 

I dunno, we got what 27 years of history to pick from I find it strange that so many teams don't have guys that won.  And I know the NBA has alot of repeat title winners, Lakers, Spurs Etc.  But still just seems like there should be more title winners scattered through the starting lineups than there are.

Perhaps because "winning a title" isn't a useful basketball skill.

Its not like any team here is short on playoff experience or veteran leadership.

You don't think Winning a title is valuable experience when it comes to winning another one? 

Yes every team here has playoff experience, but I'll take a guy that went toe to toe against the best teams the league had to offer and came out on top that year than somebody who played for a team that came out with a record around .500 and got knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.  (And of course im talking about similar talent levels, not Scal vs Karl Malone)

But you don't talk about specific players lacking experience in big moments, that's something I can understand. Instead you're talking about just counting rings and using that as a substitute for analysis.

I completely buy that deep or repeated playoff experience is valuable on a team. I don't think "winning the finals" is somehow superior to  "losing a tough finals" or losing a tough ECF etc.

Well thats just cause i don't wanna pick players apart but since you asked. 

I look at Dwight's team that lost the finals 4-1 and thats the only finals experience Dwight has, Rashard Lewis was the best player for the magic in that series IMO.  So when I look at Dwight I see a guy that didnt step up and play his best in the most important series and hasn't gotten back to that level since, (Though his teams have regressed since then)

Deron's team won its division and lost in the second round of the playoffs 4-2 against the eventual WC winner.  Deron had a solid playoff performance averaging 21 and 10.  But a second round loss doesnt really excite me when you are talking about picking a players from the last 27 years.

Ray's team lost in game 7 of the Conference finals and Ray played a hell of a playoffs that year.  Nothing wrong with that.  Probably the best playoff performer of the starting 5.  Ray shot almost %50 from 3 in those playoffs which when you combine that with the rest of his game at that point of his career its deadly. 

Love has never made the playoffs and while playing for some rough teams has only finished out of last place once in his career (rookie season)

The 09-10 Deng lost in the first round and was beat pretty handly by Lebron.  The same Lebron who then quit on his team in the following round against the celtics.

You are trying to hold the following against my team?


Williams team lost to a better team in the 2nd round of the playoff in 6 games.  


Howard carried a team to the Finals where the 2nd best player was Lewis.


My SF lost to a Lebron team?  Lebron didn't quit against Boston, Boston's defense was just to much for a single player with little help to over come.  (Kobe's numbers were similar except he had help)

I agree Love hasn't been to the playoffs, but he is going from a team where he is the best player to a team where you could argue he is the 6th or 7th best player.  


Meanwhile, other players on my bench also have playoff experience.  Including multiple rings.  

Im not holding anything against your team, I just pointed out that a second round loss in this format doesn't really impress me. 

Dwight going to the finals is good and he deserves credit for getting there but he lost and wasnt the best player on his team in that series.  And at that point also Rashard was still on the Juice most likely, and was a very good player.  Dwight gets credit for this and his team beat the Cavs which nobody really saw coming, so all the credit to him. 

And Lebron did quit on boston, lets not start the revisionist history here.  Deng was outplayed pretty strongly in that series and if it were me I would have picked a different year for Deng. 

And what you say about love can be said for countless players in this format, it doesnt change the fact that he hasnt been able to get his team out of last place any of the last 3 years.

Lebron and Kobe put up similar numbers against that Celtics defense but only Lebron quit. 

[Rondo2287]

But its all relative i mean you put dwight up against most any other centers, Dwights talent level alone puts him above the other players and so much above those players that I wouldnt really even care about his playoff performances. 

But if you are talking Dwight against Shaq, Duncan, or Robinson thats where it comes into play.

Here's the issue I have with this line of reasoning, Dwight carried his team to those Finals and was great in the Finals. Yet the fact that he was on the weaker team is a negative, how is making the Finals a negative? It was a 4-1 series but two of those games went to OT, Orlando got beat but wasn't embarrassed.

Making the finals is a positive.  Nothing wrong with that and he was impressive in that playoff run.  But like I said when I match him up against some of the elite centers that brought home a title I think that matters.  

[Rondo2287]

I dunno, I think only having one player in your starting 5 that made it to the finals puts you at a disadvantage when you match up against some of the better teams but thats just my opinion. 

I dunno, we got what 27 years of history to pick from I find it strange that so many teams don't have guys that won.  And I know the NBA has alot of repeat title winners, Lakers, Spurs Etc.  But still just seems like there should be more title winners scattered through the starting lineups than there are.

Perhaps because "winning a title" isn't a useful basketball skill.

Its not like any team here is short on playoff experience or veteran leadership.

You don't think Winning a title is valuable experience when it comes to winning another one? 

Yes every team here has playoff experience, but I'll take a guy that went toe to toe against the best teams the league had to offer and came out on top that year than somebody who played for a team that came out with a record around .500 and got knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.  (And of course im talking about similar talent levels, not Scal vs Karl Malone)

But you don't talk about specific players lacking experience in big moments, that's something I can understand. Instead you're talking about just counting rings and using that as a substitute for analysis.

I completely buy that deep or repeated playoff experience is valuable on a team. I don't think "winning the finals" is somehow superior to  "losing a tough finals" or losing a tough ECF etc.

Well thats just cause i don't wanna pick players apart but since you asked. 

I look at Dwight's team that lost the finals 4-1 and thats the only finals experience Dwight has, Rashard Lewis was the best player for the magic in that series IMO.  So when I look at Dwight I see a guy that didnt step up and play his best in the most important series and hasn't gotten back to that level since, (Though his teams have regressed since then)

Deron's team won its division and lost in the second round of the playoffs 4-2 against the eventual WC winner.  Deron had a solid playoff performance averaging 21 and 10.  But a second round loss doesnt really excite me when you are talking about picking a players from the last 27 years.

Ray's team lost in game 7 of the Conference finals and Ray played a hell of a playoffs that year.  Nothing wrong with that.  Probably the best playoff performer of the starting 5.  Ray shot almost %50 from 3 in those playoffs which when you combine that with the rest of his game at that point of his career its deadly. 

Love has never made the playoffs and while playing for some rough teams has only finished out of last place once in his career (rookie season)

The 09-10 Deng lost in the first round and was beat pretty handly by Lebron.  The same Lebron who then quit on his team in the following round against the celtics.

You are trying to hold the following against my team?


Williams team lost to a better team in the 2nd round of the playoff in 6 games.  


Howard carried a team to the Finals where the 2nd best player was Lewis.


My SF lost to a Lebron team?  Lebron didn't quit against Boston, Boston's defense was just to much for a single player with little help to over come.  (Kobe's numbers were similar except he had help)

I agree Love hasn't been to the playoffs, but he is going from a team where he is the best player to a team where you could argue he is the 6th or 7th best player.  


Meanwhile, other players on my bench also have playoff experience.  Including multiple rings.  

Im not holding anything against your team, I just pointed out that a second round loss in this format doesn't really impress me. 

Dwight going to the finals is good and he deserves credit for getting there but he lost and wasnt the best player on his team in that series.  And at that point also Rashard was still on the Juice most likely, and was a very good player.  Dwight gets credit for this and his team beat the Cavs which nobody really saw coming, so all the credit to him. 

And Lebron did quit on boston, lets not start the revisionist history here.  Deng was outplayed pretty strongly in that series and if it were me I would have picked a different year for Deng. 

And what you say about love can be said for countless players in this format, it doesnt change the fact that he hasnt been able to get his team out of last place any of the last 3 years.

Lebron and Kobe put up similar numbers against that Celtics defense but only Lebron quit. 

I think its pretty common knowledge that Lebron quit on his team that year if you can't admit it, thats fine by me.  Either way I think you picked the wrong year for Deng and a year that when he went up against Elite players, (Which he will in this format) he got outshined.

[wdleehi]

But its all relative i mean you put dwight up against most any other centers, Dwights talent level alone puts him above the other players and so much above those players that I wouldnt really even care about his playoff performances. 

But if you are talking Dwight against Shaq, Duncan, or Robinson thats where it comes into play.

Here's the issue I have with this line of reasoning, Dwight carried his team to those Finals and was great in the Finals. Yet the fact that he was on the weaker team is a negative, how is making the Finals a negative? It was a 4-1 series but two of those games went to OT, Orlando got beat but wasn't embarrassed.

Making the finals is a positive.  Nothing wrong with that and he was impressive in that playoff run.  But like I said when I match him up against some of the elite centers that brought home a title I think that matters.  

You mean against Kobe Bryant who was the MVP and averaged 32.4 points a game and faced two big men in Gasol and Bynum.  


See, now he has help at that level with my team.

[wdleehi]

I dunno, I think only having one player in your starting 5 that made it to the finals puts you at a disadvantage when you match up against some of the better teams but thats just my opinion. 

I dunno, we got what 27 years of history to pick from I find it strange that so many teams don't have guys that won.  And I know the NBA has alot of repeat title winners, Lakers, Spurs Etc.  But still just seems like there should be more title winners scattered through the starting lineups than there are.

Perhaps because "winning a title" isn't a useful basketball skill.

Its not like any team here is short on playoff experience or veteran leadership.

You don't think Winning a title is valuable experience when it comes to winning another one? 

Yes every team here has playoff experience, but I'll take a guy that went toe to toe against the best teams the league had to offer and came out on top that year than somebody who played for a team that came out with a record around .500 and got knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.  (And of course im talking about similar talent levels, not Scal vs Karl Malone)

But you don't talk about specific players lacking experience in big moments, that's something I can understand. Instead you're talking about just counting rings and using that as a substitute for analysis.

I completely buy that deep or repeated playoff experience is valuable on a team. I don't think "winning the finals" is somehow superior to  "losing a tough finals" or losing a tough ECF etc.

Well thats just cause i don't wanna pick players apart but since you asked. 

I look at Dwight's team that lost the finals 4-1 and thats the only finals experience Dwight has, Rashard Lewis was the best player for the magic in that series IMO.  So when I look at Dwight I see a guy that didnt step up and play his best in the most important series and hasn't gotten back to that level since, (Though his teams have regressed since then)

Deron's team won its division and lost in the second round of the playoffs 4-2 against the eventual WC winner.  Deron had a solid playoff performance averaging 21 and 10.  But a second round loss doesnt really excite me when you are talking about picking a players from the last 27 years.

Ray's team lost in game 7 of the Conference finals and Ray played a hell of a playoffs that year.  Nothing wrong with that.  Probably the best playoff performer of the starting 5.  Ray shot almost %50 from 3 in those playoffs which when you combine that with the rest of his game at that point of his career its deadly. 

Love has never made the playoffs and while playing for some rough teams has only finished out of last place once in his career (rookie season)

The 09-10 Deng lost in the first round and was beat pretty handly by Lebron.  The same Lebron who then quit on his team in the following round against the celtics.

You are trying to hold the following against my team?


Williams team lost to a better team in the 2nd round of the playoff in 6 games.  


Howard carried a team to the Finals where the 2nd best player was Lewis.


My SF lost to a Lebron team?  Lebron didn't quit against Boston, Boston's defense was just to much for a single player with little help to over come.  (Kobe's numbers were similar except he had help)

I agree Love hasn't been to the playoffs, but he is going from a team where he is the best player to a team where you could argue he is the 6th or 7th best player.  


Meanwhile, other players on my bench also have playoff experience.  Including multiple rings.  

Im not holding anything against your team, I just pointed out that a second round loss in this format doesn't really impress me. 

Dwight going to the finals is good and he deserves credit for getting there but he lost and wasnt the best player on his team in that series.  And at that point also Rashard was still on the Juice most likely, and was a very good player.  Dwight gets credit for this and his team beat the Cavs which nobody really saw coming, so all the credit to him. 

And Lebron did quit on boston, lets not start the revisionist history here.  Deng was outplayed pretty strongly in that series and if it were me I would have picked a different year for Deng. 

And what you say about love can be said for countless players in this format, it doesnt change the fact that he hasnt been able to get his team out of last place any of the last 3 years.

Lebron and Kobe put up similar numbers against that Celtics defense but only Lebron quit. 

I think its pretty common knowledge that Lebron quit on his team that year if you can't admit it, thats fine by me.  Either way I think you picked the wrong year for Deng and a year that when he went up against Elite players, (Which he will in this format) he got outshined.

He ran into a great defense

28.6 points, 8.0 rebounds, 3.9 assists, .7 blocks, 2.1 steals, 3.9 TO, .405 shooting %
26.8 points, 9.3 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 1.3 blocks, 2.2 steals, 4.5 TO, .447 shooting %

Same year.  Same defense.


Which one was the "quitter" and which one was the "Finals MVP"?

[Rondo2287]

But its all relative i mean you put dwight up against most any other centers, Dwights talent level alone puts him above the other players and so much above those players that I wouldnt really even care about his playoff performances. 

But if you are talking Dwight against Shaq, Duncan, or Robinson thats where it comes into play.

Here's the issue I have with this line of reasoning, Dwight carried his team to those Finals and was great in the Finals. Yet the fact that he was on the weaker team is a negative, how is making the Finals a negative? It was a 4-1 series but two of those games went to OT, Orlando got beat but wasn't embarrassed.

Making the finals is a positive.  Nothing wrong with that and he was impressive in that playoff run.  But like I said when I match him up against some of the elite centers that brought home a title I think that matters.  

You mean against Kobe Bryant who was the MVP and averaged 32.4 points a game and faced two big men in Gasol and Bynum.  


See, now he has help at that level with my team.

Dear Lord.  Every team has help at every position this is an all star league.    

And Bynum only played 19mpg that series so for the majority of the game Dwight was only going up against one of them.  

[wdleehi]

But its all relative i mean you put dwight up against most any other centers, Dwights talent level alone puts him above the other players and so much above those players that I wouldnt really even care about his playoff performances. 

But if you are talking Dwight against Shaq, Duncan, or Robinson thats where it comes into play.

Here's the issue I have with this line of reasoning, Dwight carried his team to those Finals and was great in the Finals. Yet the fact that he was on the weaker team is a negative, how is making the Finals a negative? It was a 4-1 series but two of those games went to OT, Orlando got beat but wasn't embarrassed.

Making the finals is a positive.  Nothing wrong with that and he was impressive in that playoff run.  But like I said when I match him up against some of the elite centers that brought home a title I think that matters.  

You mean against Kobe Bryant who was the MVP and averaged 32.4 points a game and faced two big men in Gasol and Bynum.  


See, now he has help at that level with my team.

Dear Lord.  Every team has help at every position this is an all star league.    

And Bynum only played 19mpg that series so for the majority of the game Dwight was only going up against one of them.  

Howard was a player that got to the finals without great help.  (only a few players can say that)


Now he has great help.

[Rondo2287]

I dunno, I think only having one player in your starting 5 that made it to the finals puts you at a disadvantage when you match up against some of the better teams but thats just my opinion. 

I dunno, we got what 27 years of history to pick from I find it strange that so many teams don't have guys that won.  And I know the NBA has alot of repeat title winners, Lakers, Spurs Etc.  But still just seems like there should be more title winners scattered through the starting lineups than there are.

Perhaps because "winning a title" isn't a useful basketball skill.

Its not like any team here is short on playoff experience or veteran leadership.

You don't think Winning a title is valuable experience when it comes to winning another one? 

Yes every team here has playoff experience, but I'll take a guy that went toe to toe against the best teams the league had to offer and came out on top that year than somebody who played for a team that came out with a record around .500 and got knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.  (And of course im talking about similar talent levels, not Scal vs Karl Malone)

But you don't talk about specific players lacking experience in big moments, that's something I can understand. Instead you're talking about just counting rings and using that as a substitute for analysis.

I completely buy that deep or repeated playoff experience is valuable on a team. I don't think "winning the finals" is somehow superior to  "losing a tough finals" or losing a tough ECF etc.

Well thats just cause i don't wanna pick players apart but since you asked. 

I look at Dwight's team that lost the finals 4-1 and thats the only finals experience Dwight has, Rashard Lewis was the best player for the magic in that series IMO.  So when I look at Dwight I see a guy that didnt step up and play his best in the most important series and hasn't gotten back to that level since, (Though his teams have regressed since then)

Deron's team won its division and lost in the second round of the playoffs 4-2 against the eventual WC winner.  Deron had a solid playoff performance averaging 21 and 10.  But a second round loss doesnt really excite me when you are talking about picking a players from the last 27 years.

Ray's team lost in game 7 of the Conference finals and Ray played a hell of a playoffs that year.  Nothing wrong with that.  Probably the best playoff performer of the starting 5.  Ray shot almost %50 from 3 in those playoffs which when you combine that with the rest of his game at that point of his career its deadly. 

Love has never made the playoffs and while playing for some rough teams has only finished out of last place once in his career (rookie season)

The 09-10 Deng lost in the first round and was beat pretty handly by Lebron.  The same Lebron who then quit on his team in the following round against the celtics.

You are trying to hold the following against my team?


Williams team lost to a better team in the 2nd round of the playoff in 6 games.  


Howard carried a team to the Finals where the 2nd best player was Lewis.


My SF lost to a Lebron team?  Lebron didn't quit against Boston, Boston's defense was just to much for a single player with little help to over come.  (Kobe's numbers were similar except he had help)

I agree Love hasn't been to the playoffs, but he is going from a team where he is the best player to a team where you could argue he is the 6th or 7th best player.  


Meanwhile, other players on my bench also have playoff experience.  Including multiple rings.  

Im not holding anything against your team, I just pointed out that a second round loss in this format doesn't really impress me. 

Dwight going to the finals is good and he deserves credit for getting there but he lost and wasnt the best player on his team in that series.  And at that point also Rashard was still on the Juice most likely, and was a very good player.  Dwight gets credit for this and his team beat the Cavs which nobody really saw coming, so all the credit to him. 

And Lebron did quit on boston, lets not start the revisionist history here.  Deng was outplayed pretty strongly in that series and if it were me I would have picked a different year for Deng. 

And what you say about love can be said for countless players in this format, it doesnt change the fact that he hasnt been able to get his team out of last place any of the last 3 years.

Lebron and Kobe put up similar numbers against that Celtics defense but only Lebron quit. 

I think its pretty common knowledge that Lebron quit on his team that year if you can't admit it, thats fine by me.  Either way I think you picked the wrong year for Deng and a year that when he went up against Elite players, (Which he will in this format) he got outshined.

He ran into a great defense

28.6 points, 8.0 rebounds, 3.9 assists, .7 blocks, 2.1 steals, 3.9 TO, .405 shooting %
26.8 points, 9.3 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 1.3 blocks, 2.2 steals, 4.5 TO, .447 shooting %

Same year.  Same defense.


Which one was the "quitter" and which one was the "Finals MVP"?

The Finals MVP was probably the one that Won the series and the Quitter was probably the won that lost the series when heavily favored.  

And trust me I don't think Kobe deserved the Finals MVP,  I remember this line from a bill simmons article,

"I was going to take 24 shots for my 24th birthday, I threw up after 6 of them, my friends still named me the MVP of my birthday"

[Rondo2287]

But its all relative i mean you put dwight up against most any other centers, Dwights talent level alone puts him above the other players and so much above those players that I wouldnt really even care about his playoff performances. 

But if you are talking Dwight against Shaq, Duncan, or Robinson thats where it comes into play.

Here's the issue I have with this line of reasoning, Dwight carried his team to those Finals and was great in the Finals. Yet the fact that he was on the weaker team is a negative, how is making the Finals a negative? It was a 4-1 series but two of those games went to OT, Orlando got beat but wasn't embarrassed.

Making the finals is a positive.  Nothing wrong with that and he was impressive in that playoff run.  But like I said when I match him up against some of the elite centers that brought home a title I think that matters.  

You mean against Kobe Bryant who was the MVP and averaged 32.4 points a game and faced two big men in Gasol and Bynum.  


See, now he has help at that level with my team.

Dear Lord.  Every team has help at every position this is an all star league.    

And Bynum only played 19mpg that series so for the majority of the game Dwight was only going up against one of them.  

Howard was a player that got to the finals without great help.  (only a few players can say that)


Now he has great help.

I'm done

[wdleehi]

I'm done

Not my fault that my argument is strong with a strong base built to stand up and last.

[Rondo2287]

I'm done

Not my fault that my argument is strong with a strong base built to stand up and last.

yup congrats.

[StartOrien]

You guys still beating your wives?

[wdleehi]

You guys still beating your wives?

Rondo2287 is not my wife!   

[Rondo2287]

You guys still beating your wives?

Did anybody hear the willie mcginest version of that question on the sports hub last night?