How's my Historical Team? (Awesome right!)

[StartOrien]

Your Boston Celtics:

PG: Chris Paul ( 08-09) Tyreke Evans (09-10), Devin Harris (08-09)

SG: Vince Carter (00-01) Reggie Lewis (91-92)

SF: Jamal Mashburn (02-03) James Posey (03-04)

PF: Dirk Nowitzki (05-06) Juwan Howard (95-96) Antawn Jamison (07-08)

C: Marc Gasol (11-12) Andrew Bogut (07-08) Kendrick Perkins (08-09)

I agree with you all. This team leaves you speechless.

Would've liked to see you add some speed at either the center of power forward. I don't think you needed much, but something to counter faster lineups with in case team-speed was too much for you. Had you had that piece I'd say you'd be the team to beat. As it is, you're still a very, very good team.

Also, Tyreke Evans is the worst

Yeah, I'm going to lose a track meet amongst bigs, but given that I was more scared of the Shaqs and Ewings than I was Dwight Howards and Robinsons, I opted for bulk. I feel like in the playoffs I win a lot more low post battles because of the depth and size I have at the bigs.

I guess my point is that I think there was a happy medium. If you had sprung quickly on a 6th man at the 4 or 5 with some speed as another option or a plan b you'd be pretty next to unstoppable.

[Bahku]

In other words, there is definitely more to AI's teams not fairing well than what is on the surface.

A big part of the issue with Iverson is that he didn't make other players better around him.

He always was an individual rather than a team player. He racked up assists not by running the pick and roll and creating dunks for others, but by holding the ball and dribbling till there wasn't any air in it.

Did you watch him in college? You honestly think he didn't make his team-mates better? And why did Deke's scoring numbers suddenly jump when he went from Atlanta to playing with AI in Philly from 2000 to 2002, yet playing the same, (or even fewer), minutes?

Third option?!? Wow.

I guess you didn't watch him play much.

He didn't make his team mates better, he was always a scorer, not a facilitator on offense. That's fine you can be a scoring PG and succeed in basketball but as far as scoring PGs go Iverson was particularly inefficient.

His best Philly teams were always poor offensive teams that went as far as their defense could take them, they were like that in large part because Iverson's ball domination and inability to play with other talented scorers.

The biggest reason Mtumbo improved his scoring averages was that in Philly they had him crash the offensive glass more. This gave him more putbacks, easy shots, and free throw attempts. Iverson drawing help certainly would be a part of that (forcing a smaller player to box out Deke).

I watched Iverson play a lot, never liked his game. It was always selfish individual play.

Deke's rebounding went down when he went to Philly.

I watched AI play through college and the NBA, and he was nowhere near the completely selfish as some people think he was.

Can't imagine anyone who wasn't amazed by the guy's game, until he became the favorite NBA whipping post.

Do you know how absurd it would be to use AI in his prime as a third option? No NBA coach on the planet would've done that, (let alone as a second option) ... that makes no sense whatsoever.

It's amazing how this entire team is being assessed purely on the personality problems of a single player ... a player who's regarded as poison enough to scratch an entire club.

I guess if we're going about it that way, Gilbert Arenas' team and a few others here should be considered.

AI is certainly good fodder for discussion, though, and most likely always will be.

I want Larry Brown as coach ... let him deal with it.

[wdleehi]

In other words, there is definitely more to AI's teams not fairing well than what is on the surface.

A big part of the issue with Iverson is that he didn't make other players better around him.

He always was an individual rather than a team player. He racked up assists not by running the pick and roll and creating dunks for others, but by holding the ball and dribbling till there wasn't any air in it.

Did you watch him in college? You honestly think he didn't make his team-mates better? And why did Deke's scoring numbers suddenly jump when he went from Atlanta to playing with AI in Philly from 2000 to 2002, yet playing the same, (or even fewer), minutes?

Third option?!? Wow.

I guess you didn't watch him play much.

He didn't make his team mates better, he was always a scorer, not a facilitator on offense. That's fine you can be a scoring PG and succeed in basketball but as far as scoring PGs go Iverson was particularly inefficient.

His best Philly teams were always poor offensive teams that went as far as their defense could take them, they were like that in large part because Iverson's ball domination and inability to play with other talented scorers.

The biggest reason Mtumbo improved his scoring averages was that in Philly they had him crash the offensive glass more. This gave him more putbacks, easy shots, and free throw attempts. Iverson drawing help certainly would be a part of that (forcing a smaller player to box out Deke).

I watched Iverson play a lot, never liked his game. It was always selfish individual play.

Deke's rebounding went down when he went to Philly.

I watched AI play through college and the NBA, and he was nowhere near the completely selfish as some people think he was.

Can't imagine anyone who wasn't amazed by the guy's game, until he became the favorite NBA whipping post.

Do you know how absurd it would be to use AI in his prime as a third option? No NBA coach on the planet would've done that, (let alone as a second option) ... that makes no sense whatsoever.

It's amazing how this entire team is being assessed purely on the personality problems of a single player ... a player who's regarded as poison enough to scratch an entire club.

I guess if we're going about it that way, Gilbert Arenas' team and a few others here should be considered.

AI is certainly good fodder for discussion, though, and most likely always will be.

I want Larry Brown as coach ... let him deal with it.

It's absurd because AI would then quit on that team.  He proved that twice in his career.

[Rondo2287]

In other words, there is definitely more to AI's teams not fairing well than what is on the surface.

A big part of the issue with Iverson is that he didn't make other players better around him.

He always was an individual rather than a team player. He racked up assists not by running the pick and roll and creating dunks for others, but by holding the ball and dribbling till there wasn't any air in it.

Did you watch him in college? You honestly think he didn't make his team-mates better? And why did Deke's scoring numbers suddenly jump when he went from Atlanta to playing with AI in Philly from 2000 to 2002, yet playing the same, (or even fewer), minutes?

Third option?!? Wow.

I guess you didn't watch him play much.

He didn't make his team mates better, he was always a scorer, not a facilitator on offense. That's fine you can be a scoring PG and succeed in basketball but as far as scoring PGs go Iverson was particularly inefficient.

His best Philly teams were always poor offensive teams that went as far as their defense could take them, they were like that in large part because Iverson's ball domination and inability to play with other talented scorers.

The biggest reason Mtumbo improved his scoring averages was that in Philly they had him crash the offensive glass more. This gave him more putbacks, easy shots, and free throw attempts. Iverson drawing help certainly would be a part of that (forcing a smaller player to box out Deke).

I watched Iverson play a lot, never liked his game. It was always selfish individual play.

Deke's rebounding went down when he went to Philly.

I watched AI play through college and the NBA, and he was nowhere near the completely selfish as some people think he was.

Can't imagine anyone who wasn't amazed by the guy's game, until he became the favorite NBA whipping post.

Do you know how absurd it would be to use AI in his prime as a third option? No NBA coach on the planet would've done that, (let alone as a second option) ... that makes no sense whatsoever.

It's amazing how this entire team is being assessed purely on the personality problems of a single player ... a player who's regarded as poison enough to scratch an entire club.

I guess if we're going about it that way, Gilbert Arenas' team and a few others here should be considered.

AI is certainly good fodder for discussion, though, and most likely always will be.

I want Larry Brown as coach ... let him deal with it.

It's absurd because AI would then quit on that team.  He proved that twice in his career.

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/04/06/dwight-howard-quits-against-the-knicks-keeps-trying-to-get-stan-van-gundy-fired/

[Bahku]

In other words, there is definitely more to AI's teams not fairing well than what is on the surface.

A big part of the issue with Iverson is that he didn't make other players better around him.

He always was an individual rather than a team player. He racked up assists not by running the pick and roll and creating dunks for others, but by holding the ball and dribbling till there wasn't any air in it.

Did you watch him in college? You honestly think he didn't make his team-mates better? And why did Deke's scoring numbers suddenly jump when he went from Atlanta to playing with AI in Philly from 2000 to 2002, yet playing the same, (or even fewer), minutes?

Third option?!? Wow.

I guess you didn't watch him play much.

He didn't make his team mates better, he was always a scorer, not a facilitator on offense. That's fine you can be a scoring PG and succeed in basketball but as far as scoring PGs go Iverson was particularly inefficient.

His best Philly teams were always poor offensive teams that went as far as their defense could take them, they were like that in large part because Iverson's ball domination and inability to play with other talented scorers.

The biggest reason Mtumbo improved his scoring averages was that in Philly they had him crash the offensive glass more. This gave him more putbacks, easy shots, and free throw attempts. Iverson drawing help certainly would be a part of that (forcing a smaller player to box out Deke).

I watched Iverson play a lot, never liked his game. It was always selfish individual play.

Deke's rebounding went down when he went to Philly.

I watched AI play through college and the NBA, and he was nowhere near the completely selfish as some people think he was.

Can't imagine anyone who wasn't amazed by the guy's game, until he became the favorite NBA whipping post.

Do you know how absurd it would be to use AI in his prime as a third option? No NBA coach on the planet would've done that, (let alone as a second option) ... that makes no sense whatsoever.

It's amazing how this entire team is being assessed purely on the personality problems of a single player ... a player who's regarded as poison enough to scratch an entire club.

I guess if we're going about it that way, Gilbert Arenas' team and a few others here should be considered.

AI is certainly good fodder for discussion, though, and most likely always will be.

I want Larry Brown as coach ... let him deal with it.

It's absurd because AI would then quit on that team.  He proved that twice in his career.

Yup ... that's what I meant. 

[KCattheStripe]

Your Boston Celtics:

PG: Chris Paul ( 08-09) Tyreke Evans (09-10), Devin Harris (08-09)

SG: Vince Carter (00-01) Reggie Lewis (91-92)

SF: Jamal Mashburn (02-03) James Posey (03-04)

PF: Dirk Nowitzki (05-06) Juwan Howard (95-96) Antawn Jamison (07-08)

C: Marc Gasol (11-12) Andrew Bogut (07-08) Kendrick Perkins (08-09)

I agree with you all. This team leaves you speechless.

Would've liked to see you add some speed at either the center of power forward. I don't think you needed much, but something to counter faster lineups with in case team-speed was too much for you. Had you had that piece I'd say you'd be the team to beat. As it is, you're still a very, very good team.

Also, Tyreke Evans is the worst

Yeah, I'm going to lose a track meet amongst bigs, but given that I was more scared of the Shaqs and Ewings than I was Dwight Howards and Robinsons, I opted for bulk. I feel like in the playoffs I win a lot more low post battles because of the depth and size I have at the bigs.

I guess my point is that I think there was a happy medium. If you had sprung quickly on a 6th man at the 4 or 5 with some speed as another option or a plan b you'd be pretty next to unstoppable.

I'm amazed Antawn Jamison's nickname wasn't " Happy Medium".

LeBron: Can we get Amar'e?  Danny ferry: No, but Antawn Jamison is a happy medium between Amar'e and Anderson Varejo!

Golden State: Man, Chris Webber leaving was rough, but in the choice between not having him and having him, Antawn Jamison is a happy medium.

John Edwards ( Crossing Over. Not philanderous ex-senator): That Antwan is the only guy in our industry who is always smiling.

[wdleehi]

In other words, there is definitely more to AI's teams not fairing well than what is on the surface.

A big part of the issue with Iverson is that he didn't make other players better around him.

He always was an individual rather than a team player. He racked up assists not by running the pick and roll and creating dunks for others, but by holding the ball and dribbling till there wasn't any air in it.

Did you watch him in college? You honestly think he didn't make his team-mates better? And why did Deke's scoring numbers suddenly jump when he went from Atlanta to playing with AI in Philly from 2000 to 2002, yet playing the same, (or even fewer), minutes?

Third option?!? Wow.

I guess you didn't watch him play much.

He didn't make his team mates better, he was always a scorer, not a facilitator on offense. That's fine you can be a scoring PG and succeed in basketball but as far as scoring PGs go Iverson was particularly inefficient.

His best Philly teams were always poor offensive teams that went as far as their defense could take them, they were like that in large part because Iverson's ball domination and inability to play with other talented scorers.

The biggest reason Mtumbo improved his scoring averages was that in Philly they had him crash the offensive glass more. This gave him more putbacks, easy shots, and free throw attempts. Iverson drawing help certainly would be a part of that (forcing a smaller player to box out Deke).

I watched Iverson play a lot, never liked his game. It was always selfish individual play.

Deke's rebounding went down when he went to Philly.

I watched AI play through college and the NBA, and he was nowhere near the completely selfish as some people think he was.

Can't imagine anyone who wasn't amazed by the guy's game, until he became the favorite NBA whipping post.

Do you know how absurd it would be to use AI in his prime as a third option? No NBA coach on the planet would've done that, (let alone as a second option) ... that makes no sense whatsoever.

It's amazing how this entire team is being assessed purely on the personality problems of a single player ... a player who's regarded as poison enough to scratch an entire club.

I guess if we're going about it that way, Gilbert Arenas' team and a few others here should be considered.

AI is certainly good fodder for discussion, though, and most likely always will be.

I want Larry Brown as coach ... let him deal with it.

It's absurd because AI would then quit on that team.  He proved that twice in his career.

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/04/06/dwight-howard-quits-against-the-knicks-keeps-trying-to-get-stan-van-gundy-fired/

You mean when he missed the two games before, played just one more game and then was gone for the season because of a back injury?



Yeah, he must of quit to get Stan fired.

[StartOrien]

Here's something we can all agree on, this mashup was completely necessary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkowJkrap1Q

[Rondo2287]

In other words, there is definitely more to AI's teams not fairing well than what is on the surface.

A big part of the issue with Iverson is that he didn't make other players better around him.

He always was an individual rather than a team player. He racked up assists not by running the pick and roll and creating dunks for others, but by holding the ball and dribbling till there wasn't any air in it.

Did you watch him in college? You honestly think he didn't make his team-mates better? And why did Deke's scoring numbers suddenly jump when he went from Atlanta to playing with AI in Philly from 2000 to 2002, yet playing the same, (or even fewer), minutes?

Third option?!? Wow.

I guess you didn't watch him play much.

He didn't make his team mates better, he was always a scorer, not a facilitator on offense. That's fine you can be a scoring PG and succeed in basketball but as far as scoring PGs go Iverson was particularly inefficient.

His best Philly teams were always poor offensive teams that went as far as their defense could take them, they were like that in large part because Iverson's ball domination and inability to play with other talented scorers.

The biggest reason Mtumbo improved his scoring averages was that in Philly they had him crash the offensive glass more. This gave him more putbacks, easy shots, and free throw attempts. Iverson drawing help certainly would be a part of that (forcing a smaller player to box out Deke).

I watched Iverson play a lot, never liked his game. It was always selfish individual play.

Deke's rebounding went down when he went to Philly.

I watched AI play through college and the NBA, and he was nowhere near the completely selfish as some people think he was.

Can't imagine anyone who wasn't amazed by the guy's game, until he became the favorite NBA whipping post.

Do you know how absurd it would be to use AI in his prime as a third option? No NBA coach on the planet would've done that, (let alone as a second option) ... that makes no sense whatsoever.

It's amazing how this entire team is being assessed purely on the personality problems of a single player ... a player who's regarded as poison enough to scratch an entire club.

I guess if we're going about it that way, Gilbert Arenas' team and a few others here should be considered.

AI is certainly good fodder for discussion, though, and most likely always will be.

I want Larry Brown as coach ... let him deal with it.

It's absurd because AI would then quit on that team.  He proved that twice in his career.

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/04/06/dwight-howard-quits-against-the-knicks-keeps-trying-to-get-stan-van-gundy-fired/

You mean when he missed the two games before, played just one more game and then was gone for the season because of a back injury?



Yeah, he must of quit to get Stan fired.

Seriously though, you have to admit Dwight quit on his team this season, thats hardly even debatable.

[wdleehi]

In other words, there is definitely more to AI's teams not fairing well than what is on the surface.

A big part of the issue with Iverson is that he didn't make other players better around him.

He always was an individual rather than a team player. He racked up assists not by running the pick and roll and creating dunks for others, but by holding the ball and dribbling till there wasn't any air in it.

Did you watch him in college? You honestly think he didn't make his team-mates better? And why did Deke's scoring numbers suddenly jump when he went from Atlanta to playing with AI in Philly from 2000 to 2002, yet playing the same, (or even fewer), minutes?

Third option?!? Wow.

I guess you didn't watch him play much.

He didn't make his team mates better, he was always a scorer, not a facilitator on offense. That's fine you can be a scoring PG and succeed in basketball but as far as scoring PGs go Iverson was particularly inefficient.

His best Philly teams were always poor offensive teams that went as far as their defense could take them, they were like that in large part because Iverson's ball domination and inability to play with other talented scorers.

The biggest reason Mtumbo improved his scoring averages was that in Philly they had him crash the offensive glass more. This gave him more putbacks, easy shots, and free throw attempts. Iverson drawing help certainly would be a part of that (forcing a smaller player to box out Deke).

I watched Iverson play a lot, never liked his game. It was always selfish individual play.

Deke's rebounding went down when he went to Philly.

I watched AI play through college and the NBA, and he was nowhere near the completely selfish as some people think he was.

Can't imagine anyone who wasn't amazed by the guy's game, until he became the favorite NBA whipping post.

Do you know how absurd it would be to use AI in his prime as a third option? No NBA coach on the planet would've done that, (let alone as a second option) ... that makes no sense whatsoever.

It's amazing how this entire team is being assessed purely on the personality problems of a single player ... a player who's regarded as poison enough to scratch an entire club.

I guess if we're going about it that way, Gilbert Arenas' team and a few others here should be considered.

AI is certainly good fodder for discussion, though, and most likely always will be.

I want Larry Brown as coach ... let him deal with it.

It's absurd because AI would then quit on that team.  He proved that twice in his career.

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/04/06/dwight-howard-quits-against-the-knicks-keeps-trying-to-get-stan-van-gundy-fired/

You mean when he missed the two games before, played just one more game and then was gone for the season because of a back injury?



Yeah, he must of quit to get Stan fired.

Seriously though, you have to admit Dwight quit on his team this season, thats hardly even debatable.

He didn't have his best year on a terrible team, but his play was still top 2-3 in the league.

[Rondo2287]

In other words, there is definitely more to AI's teams not fairing well than what is on the surface.

A big part of the issue with Iverson is that he didn't make other players better around him.

He always was an individual rather than a team player. He racked up assists not by running the pick and roll and creating dunks for others, but by holding the ball and dribbling till there wasn't any air in it.

Did you watch him in college? You honestly think he didn't make his team-mates better? And why did Deke's scoring numbers suddenly jump when he went from Atlanta to playing with AI in Philly from 2000 to 2002, yet playing the same, (or even fewer), minutes?

Third option?!? Wow.

I guess you didn't watch him play much.

He didn't make his team mates better, he was always a scorer, not a facilitator on offense. That's fine you can be a scoring PG and succeed in basketball but as far as scoring PGs go Iverson was particularly inefficient.

His best Philly teams were always poor offensive teams that went as far as their defense could take them, they were like that in large part because Iverson's ball domination and inability to play with other talented scorers.

The biggest reason Mtumbo improved his scoring averages was that in Philly they had him crash the offensive glass more. This gave him more putbacks, easy shots, and free throw attempts. Iverson drawing help certainly would be a part of that (forcing a smaller player to box out Deke).

I watched Iverson play a lot, never liked his game. It was always selfish individual play.

Deke's rebounding went down when he went to Philly.

I watched AI play through college and the NBA, and he was nowhere near the completely selfish as some people think he was.

Can't imagine anyone who wasn't amazed by the guy's game, until he became the favorite NBA whipping post.

Do you know how absurd it would be to use AI in his prime as a third option? No NBA coach on the planet would've done that, (let alone as a second option) ... that makes no sense whatsoever.

It's amazing how this entire team is being assessed purely on the personality problems of a single player ... a player who's regarded as poison enough to scratch an entire club.

I guess if we're going about it that way, Gilbert Arenas' team and a few others here should be considered.

AI is certainly good fodder for discussion, though, and most likely always will be.

I want Larry Brown as coach ... let him deal with it.

It's absurd because AI would then quit on that team.  He proved that twice in his career.

http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/04/06/dwight-howard-quits-against-the-knicks-keeps-trying-to-get-stan-van-gundy-fired/

You mean when he missed the two games before, played just one more game and then was gone for the season because of a back injury?



Yeah, he must of quit to get Stan fired.

Seriously though, you have to admit Dwight quit on his team this season, thats hardly even debatable.

He didn't have his best year on a terrible team, but his play was still top 2-3 in the league.

He quit on his team.

[Fafnir]

He quit on his team.

Just like Magic, MJ, VC, T-Mac, Shaq, Kobe, etc.

Of course the year this happened isn't the year that was taken, nor would it be for any of the players above. Players get their coaches fired, can't discount those that have done it because so many have.

[indeedproceed]

If you're making a statistical argument for AI you can't discount his high turnovers and his lousy FG% / efficiency.

Actually, high trunover rates are common with most players who pass the ball a great deal, as is evident with almost any other prominent PG or SG of our time, (AI's TO rate: 3.6/game for his career, Magic Johnson's: 3.9). Turnover rate really just supports the fact that he was a passer.

I've been trying to support the 'AI doesn't pass' hypo, because its one I believe.

But if you look at his numbers from 04/05 among starting PG's, he's top 10 assist ratio, top 10 assists per 36, and had a low turnover %.

Now he led the league in usage by a long shot, and was the most ball-dominant player that season at any position by a long stretch.

But I don't think the notion that he wasn't a willing passer that season at least is a foregone conclusion. At least the numbers I know of say otherwise.

[Rondo2287]

He quit on his team.

Just like Magic, MJ, VC, T-Mac, Shaq, Kobe, etc.

Of course the year this happened isn't the year that was taken, nor would it be for any of the players above. Players get their coaches fired, can't discount those that have done it because so many have.

Than you shouldnt discount AI "quitting on his team" either.  Im just saying don't pick and choose.

[indeedproceed]

He quit on his team.

Just like Magic, MJ, VC, T-Mac, Shaq, Kobe, etc.

Of course the year this happened isn't the year that was taken, nor would it be for any of the players above. Players get their coaches fired, can't discount those that have done it because so many have.

Than you shouldnt discount AI "quitting on his team" either.  Im just saying don't pick and choose.

I think the way they 'quit' on their team matters quite a bit.

LeBron, MJ, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, I think those guys you can't say are teamkillers, because of the success and track record.

T-Mac, Vince Carter, Derrick COleman, guys who just kinda seemed to quit just cuz they wanted to.

Those guys should have a real strike against them.