Author Topic: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.  (Read 29596 times)

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Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2012, 03:48:52 PM »

Offline tgreanier

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This is a fairly written piece, though some of the conclusions are a bit odd (see the section on Ray Allen).

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1199690-heat-vs-celtics-are-nba-refs-hijacking-another-nba-playoff-series

And to be fair, here is another point of view. Again, I think Dan misses the point here that the majority of people I have seen are not blaming the refs for the loss, they are blaming the refs for ruining the flow of the game needlessly. The loss is all on Boston themselves.

http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/05/29/whistle-blower-needed-these-complaints/CjCNuKsPHMnv6AwPciPfrN/story.html
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Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #46 on: May 29, 2012, 04:02:00 PM »

Offline j804

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make no mistake Technicals can zap the energy make you less aggressive and sway momentum big time.

period. lol
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Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2012, 04:02:44 PM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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TP for Moranis.  All the whining about the refs is sad.  We should be better than that.

Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2012, 04:24:28 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Well, after watching the replays of that game several times now, IMO the ref thing could've been overcome, HOWEVER:

When your team starts accumulating TechsFouls like BOS did last night, that HAS to have an effect on your team during that game.

They start to play tentatively - not knowing what to expect from the refs.

Several times I saw Pierce taking it to the hole only to not get a call.

C'mon, Now.

I saw Paul make the exact same drives IN PHI and IN BOS....into the teeth of the PHI interior - and he got the call.

Not last night.

Officials CAN definitely affect the outcome of a game....a team is SUPPOSED to be mentally tough, but when you are fighting ANOTHER entity that HAS to have an effect.

I expect at LEAST one tech (on Doc) to be rescinded. Perhaps the one where Ray got T'd up, too.

When you, as an official, send a message like the one that was sent last night to an opposing team, you are basically giving them the impression that you are NOT going to call the game fairly, plain and simple.

When a fan starts looking at games just to see how officials will call it, something's amiss.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 05:34:00 PM by GreenFaith1819 »

Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2012, 04:36:41 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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Wdleehi,

The Heat simply did NOT attack the rim more.  That is just simply wrong.  Please view the shot chart:

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=320528014

The Celtics actually attacked the paint MORE that the Heat and if you expand it out to about the international lane measurements, it is even more pronounced.

Smitty77

Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2012, 04:42:30 PM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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It may have been poorly reffed, but it was fairly reffed.

I agree that the referees didn't cost the Celtics a win last night, but I don't understand the distinction you're drawing between poor and unfair officiating? Or how you'd defend a statistic such as the below.

Quote from: Gary Tanguay
Heat opponents have been called for 22 techs in the postseason. the Heat have six.

I do believe the crew last night came into the game with the intention of sending the Celtics a message.

Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2012, 04:45:51 PM »

Offline Moranis

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It may have been poorly reffed, but it was fairly reffed.

I agree that the referees didn't cost the Celtics a win last night, but I don't understand the distinction you're drawing between poor and unfair officiating? Or how you'd defend a statistic such as the below.
Poor means bad.  Unfair means one sided.  Aside from the technical on Doc and technical on Ray, the amount of bad calls, missed calls, no-calls, etc. were about the same for both teams.  That means it wasn't unfairly officiated, it was just poorly officiated (i.e. too many missed calls, too much inconsistency in calls, etc.). 
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Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2012, 04:56:40 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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Moranis,

So, you are telling me that Lebron doesn't touch the ball after his break away dunks (and then hanging unnecessarily on the rim) like KG did when called for the team technical???  Really?  You said you watched the game, but you somehow missed Lebron doing that????? and he did NOT get a technical for touching the ball OR for hanging on the rim when NO ONE was anywhere near him or under him.

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Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2012, 04:58:31 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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That one "tardy" call on Pietrus as he was guarding Lebron made me LOL.

That whistle came about 3-4 secs AFTER the supposed infraction.

Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2012, 04:59:07 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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make no mistake Technicals can zap the energy make you less aggressive and sway momentum big time.

period. lol
And they can fire you up and unite a team, giving you more energy.

Or they can do nothing.

Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2012, 05:00:18 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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Moranis,

So, you are telling me that Lebron doesn't touch the ball after his break away dunks (and then hanging unnecessarily on the rim) like KG did when called for the team technical???  Really?  You said you watched the game, but you somehow missed Lebron doing that????? and he did NOT get a technical for touching the ball OR for hanging on the rim when NO ONE was anywhere near him or under him.

Smitty77

he also didn't get a T after Jumping up and down and saying he got fouled while starring down the ref , then holding the ball up in kg's face taunting him,while Ray does the same thing and turns away from the ref , but gets a t.

Yup real level playing field there, us cry babies just need to accept the fact that the heat will start off with a 3-5 point lead every game.

Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2012, 05:12:03 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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That one "tardy" call on Pietrus as he was guarding Lebron made me LOL.

That whistle came about 3-4 secs AFTER the supposed infraction.
Where did you get the time from?

Assuming you replayed the foul with a stopwatch, the only people who should complain on the late call are the Heat. On an obvious foul like that, they would have been the victims if he made the shot and was cheated out of an extra free throw.

I consider late call complaints to be the most pointless complaints a person can make. The whistle blows when it blows. Following the game is far more important for the refs than making sure the whistle gets blown as soon as possible.

I do respect complaints about refs deciding to not make calls if they feel it didn't impact the play (i.e., not calling fouls if the shot goes in) or if they can make a less impactful call (e.g., calling out of bounds against player A when it was actually out on player B, but player A fouled player B to make it go out and calling out of bounds makes the refs influence outcomes less). Personally, I am okay in principle with such a approach since refs may be concerned about their personal perceptual limitations and may want to limit their effect, but it seems risky to do this, especially when 3 refs may implement this differently.

It is also important to remember that there are 3 refs who might have slightly different approaches during a game, which can lead to significant difference at different ends of the court due to swapped responsibilities. I don't know the details of how refs work, but ideally the same ref would have the same duties at both ends of the court for one quarter. This, obviously, is not going to work since one ref would have to go from baseline to baseline each possession, which isn't going to happen. Coaches often complain "call it both ways" to one ref when a different ref was responsible for at least one of the calls/no-calls.

Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2012, 05:12:28 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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we got outplayed and lost.  BUT to dismiss the poor officiating only enables the same crap to continue, not just to the celtics and its fans, but to the other teams and fans.

since stern doesnt allow for players, coaches, front office, etc discuss it, the media has an obligation to obliterate the league for its blatant poor and bias officiating.  it is a joke.  so much so, it makes it very difficult to watch an nba game

Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2012, 05:16:39 PM »

Offline cman88

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i'm sorry Moranis...the heat playing better and the officiating being horrible dont have to be lumped together..even if the C's won I would say the officiating was horrible..

we lost the game because we lost our composure and didnt execute offensively...BUT, most teams dont get 4techs in 3 weeks. let alone one game.

but when opposing teams have 26technical fouls to the Heat's 6(who are a whining team) theres no "fair" about it.

its not about whining, but can we really ignore tim donoughy? the lakers-kings series?? Stern protects certain teams.

Look what happened in the Knicks and Indiana series...plenty of horrible officiating there as well.

Re: Quit whining about the Refs. Miami was just better. Period.
« Reply #59 on: May 29, 2012, 05:23:21 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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That one "tardy" call on Pietrus as he was guarding Lebron made me LOL.

That whistle came about 3-4 secs AFTER the supposed infraction.
Where did you get the time from?

Assuming you replayed the foul with a stopwatch, the only people who should complain on the late call are the Heat. On an obvious foul like that, they would have been the victims if he made the shot and was cheated out of an extra free throw.

I consider late call complaints to be the most pointless complaints a person can make. The whistle blows when it blows. Following the game is far more important for the refs than making sure the whistle gets blown as soon as possible.

I do respect complaints about refs deciding to not make calls if they feel it didn't impact the play (i.e., not calling fouls if the shot goes in) or if they can make a less impactful call (e.g., calling out of bounds against player A when it was actually out on player B, but player A fouled player B to make it go out and calling out of bounds makes the refs influence outcomes less). Personally, I am okay in principle with such a approach since refs may be concerned about their personal perceptual limitations and may want to limit their effect, but it seems risky to do this, especially when 3 refs may implement this differently.

It is also important to remember that there are 3 refs who might have slightly different approaches during a game, which can lead to significant difference at different ends of the court due to swapped responsibilities. I don't know the details of how refs work, but ideally the same ref would have the same duties at both ends of the court for one quarter. This, obviously, is not going to work since one ref would have to go from baseline to baseline each possession, which isn't going to happen. Coaches often complain "call it both ways" to one ref when a different ref was responsible for at least one of the calls/no-calls.

Well, without officially using a stopwatch, that was absolutely the latest whistle I've seen in a basketball game, and I'd bet that BOS would be upset, too - not just the Heat.

Why BOS? Pietrus played good D on Lebron during that stanza...only to get a very late whistle in response.

As with my extended post - the litany of calls/techs that went AGAINST BOS...against ANY team - can certainly serve to mentally affect a team - ANY team.

Wouldn't you agree?

EDIT - also - with your boldened section - aren't these refs seasoned by this time in the playoffs? I'm reading your boldened part to mean that refs see different things...I'm I right?

If I am right in my assumption - isn't it time, by now, that refs wouldn't be officiating any differently, or switching/swapping roles, etc - in a EC Finals?

IMO, that wouldn't be a smart time to choose to switch roles.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 05:31:42 PM by GreenFaith1819 »