Chris Paul is the best player in the NBA

[Fafnir]

See here's the problem Osirus:

Why is there such a discrepancy between his performance between the regular season to the playoffs? Lets not even talk about his team success, but he doesn't even perform well at all in th playoffs, and you're giving him a pass?

This statement isn't true and you haven't shown one shred of evidence other than the lack of title that it is.

Meanwhile people have taken apart most of your specific examples of his supposed failures. Myself the 08-09 Magic series but others have addressed the other years of LeBron's playoff careers.

LeBron is the best player in the league during the regular season and the best player in the league during the post-season. That doesn't mean he always plays well every game, but look at his overall performance and he's awesome.

You know thats a joke. Just stop it. Sportscenter is not your friend, sportscenter is not your friend

Take a look at the edited version of my post with his regular season and post season numbers. They're essentially the same, he's the best basketball player in the world no matter when the games are played.

[Moranis]

See here's the problem Osirus:

Why is there such a discrepancy between his performance between the regular season to the playoffs? Lets not even talk about his team success, but he doesn't even perform well at all in th playoffs, and you're giving him a pass?

This statement isn't true and you haven't shown one shred of evidence other than the lack of title that it is.

Meanwhile people have taken apart most of your specific examples of his supposed failures. Myself the 08-09 Magic series but others have addressed the other years of LeBron's playoff careers.

LeBron is the best player in the league during the regular season and the best player in the league during the post-season. That doesn't mean he always plays well every game, but look at his overall performance and he's awesome.

His regular season averages:

39.9 MPG 27.6 PPG 7.2 RPG 6.9 APG 48.3% FG .569 TS%

His playoff averages:

43.3 MPG 28.0 PPG 8.3 RPG 6.9 APG 46.1% FG .562 TS%

Even in last years finals Lebron really only had one really bad game (game 4), and he still averaged 17.8 p, 7.2 r, 6.8 a, 1.7 s on 47.8% from the field.  I mean that is his worst playoff series ever and most players would die for those numbers during any 6 game stretch nonetheless the NBA Finals.

[OsirusCeltics]

See here's the problem Osirus:

Why is there such a discrepancy between his performance between the regular season to the playoffs? Lets not even talk about his team success, but he doesn't even perform well at all in th playoffs, and you're giving him a pass?

This statement isn't true and you haven't shown one shred of evidence other than the lack of title that it is.

Meanwhile people have taken apart most of your specific examples of his supposed failures. Myself the 08-09 Magic series but others have addressed the other years of LeBron's playoff careers.

LeBron is the best player in the league during the regular season and the best player in the league during the post-season. That doesn't mean he always plays well every game, but look at his overall performance and he's awesome.

You know thats a joke. Just stop it. Sportscenter is not your friend, sportscenter is not your friend

Take a look at the edited version of my post with his regular season and post season numbers. They're essentially the same, he's the best basketball player in the world no matter when the games are played.

Those stats don't tell the whole story. Lebron can front-run in the first 3 quarters and then under-perform in the 4th. I wonder if theres a way to show the stats of just the 4th quarter

I'm sorry but I can't give the "best player nod" to a guy who averages 2.9 points in the 2011 NBA Finals 4th quarters lol
18 total points. And to call him the best player is embracing mediocrity

[indeedproceed]

I know Lebron is talented, no need to throw stats in my face. He's one of the most talented players in history. But here's the thing, so is everyone else in the NBA. Everyone has talented. What sets you apart is how good you perform in the clutch and if you are a leader

Thats why Chris Paul is the best. He plays awesome in the regular season, then seems to bring his game to another level when he enters the playoffs. He seems like no matter what, he would win that game. And he performs very well in the 4th quarter in the playoffs.

You can score 30 points all you want and dunk on 10 guys in a game. But if you can't lead a team, you are not the best player. Why is that Lebron who was so good in the regular season underperforms in the playoffs? If you're a great player like Magic, Bird, Jordan, you're supposed to perform when it counts. If you can't do that, it means you're not the best

 

Your characterization of LeBron James is just not holding up for me. He's been more successful in the playoffs, in the regular season, and as an individual player than Chris Paul has been. He's statistically better, he's gone farther more consistently in the playoffs, and he's proven he can still succeed with a poorly talented supporting cast.

I just don't see where you have a leg to stand on.

Am I missing something, I thought basketball was a team game? Chris Paul has had way more horrible teams than Lebron and its not even close. Paul has done less with more. Even though Lebron's teammates may not have been glamorized, but they deff had scoring ability

LeBron's teammates were as bad or worse than Chris Paul's, and he took them further.

Both guys had it rough.

[Fafnir]

See here's the problem Osirus:

Why is there such a discrepancy between his performance between the regular season to the playoffs? Lets not even talk about his team success, but he doesn't even perform well at all in th playoffs, and you're giving him a pass?

This statement isn't true and you haven't shown one shred of evidence other than the lack of title that it is.

Meanwhile people have taken apart most of your specific examples of his supposed failures. Myself the 08-09 Magic series but others have addressed the other years of LeBron's playoff careers.

LeBron is the best player in the league during the regular season and the best player in the league during the post-season. That doesn't mean he always plays well every game, but look at his overall performance and he's awesome.

You know thats a joke. Just stop it. Sportscenter is not your friend, sportscenter is not your friend

Take a look at the edited version of my post with his regular season and post season numbers. They're essentially the same, he's the best basketball player in the world no matter when the games are played.

Those stats don't tell the whole story. Lebron can front-run in the first 3 quarters and then under-perform in the 4th. I wonder if theres a way to show the stats of just the 4th quarter

I'm sorry but I can't give the "best player nod" to a guy who averages 2.9 points in the 2011 NBA Finals 4th quarters lol
18 total points. And to call him the best player is embracing mediocrity

Basketball reference can sort out fourth quarter numbers.

I'll warn you, others have done so before. The conclusion is the same, LeBron's always awesome.

[Moranis]

See here's the problem Osirus:

Why is there such a discrepancy between his performance between the regular season to the playoffs? Lets not even talk about his team success, but he doesn't even perform well at all in th playoffs, and you're giving him a pass?

This statement isn't true and you haven't shown one shred of evidence other than the lack of title that it is.

Meanwhile people have taken apart most of your specific examples of his supposed failures. Myself the 08-09 Magic series but others have addressed the other years of LeBron's playoff careers.

LeBron is the best player in the league during the regular season and the best player in the league during the post-season. That doesn't mean he always plays well every game, but look at his overall performance and he's awesome.

You know thats a joke. Just stop it. Sportscenter is not your friend, sportscenter is not your friend

Take a look at the edited version of my post with his regular season and post season numbers. They're essentially the same, he's the best basketball player in the world no matter when the games are played.

Those stats don't tell the whole story. Lebron can front-run in the first 3 quarters and then under-perform in the 4th. I wonder if theres a way to show the stats of just the 4th quarter

I'm sorry but I can't give the "best player nod" to a guy who averages 2.9 points in the 2011 NBA Finals 4th quarters lol
18 total points. And to call him the best player is embracing mediocrity

Basketball reference can sort out fourth quarter numbers.

I'll warn you, others have done so before. The conclusion is the same, LeBron's always awesome.

Yep.  Great players have bad games.  Perhaps someone needs to bone up on his Larry Bird history and review some elimination "gems" put up by Larry Legend.  I'd start with game 6 in 87 against the Lakers, game 6 against the Pistons in 88, game 6 against the Pistons in 91, and game 7 against the Cavs in 92.  All "superb" playoff performances by Larry Legend when the season was on the line.

[fairweatherfan]

I think I've said my (small) piece, but TP to Osirus for getting a bunch of die-hard Celtics fans to adamantly defend LeBron.  Not easy to do. 

[OsirusCeltics]

Colin Cowherd made a good point about Lebron:
He's always been so naturally gifted, great player from so young an age, he's never learned the finer points of the game. He's not good off the ball, he doesn't know how to play the post, with his back to the basket. He's always just taken over on raw talent, that might not work against other great teams with a gameplan.

[guava_wrench]

I know Lebron is talented, no need to throw stats in my face. He's one of the most talented players in history. But here's the thing, so is everyone else in the NBA. Everyone has talented. What sets you apart is how good you perform in the clutch and if you are a leader

Thats why Chris Paul is the best. He plays awesome in the regular season, then seems to bring his game to another level when he enters the playoffs. He seems like no matter what, he would win that game. And he performs very well in the 4th quarter in the playoffs.

You can score 30 points all you want and dunk on 10 guys in a game. But if you can't lead a team, you are not the best player. Why is that Lebron who was so good in the regular season underperforms in the playoffs? If you're a great player like Magic, Bird, Jordan, you're supposed to perform when it counts. If you can't do that, it means you're not the best

Claiming generalizations doesn't make them true. How many posters have to refute your claims with actually data before you stop championing your unsupported feelings?

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Talk to me AFTER he leads some team to a CHAMPIONSHIP.....! Heck, Allen Iverson had a lot of scoring skills...!

[guava_wrench]

Colin Cowherd made a good point about Lebron:
He's always been so naturally gifted, great player from so young an age, he's never learned the finer points of the game. He's not good off the ball, he doesn't know how to play the post, with his back to the basket. He's always just taken over on raw talent, that might not work against other great teams with a gameplan.

I think his point is a fantasy. Lebron came into the league with an exceptional feel for the finer points of the game unlike any NBA forward before at his young age. His feel for passing and general offensive flow was remarkable. Watch him on defense now and see how hard he works on the small things. He has finally begun playing with his back to the basket in the post this season, which I agree was a weakness of his previously considering his size and strength. I agree that he should post more now that he actually has some moves.

Considering Lebron typically plays point forward, what is this guy basing his critiques of Lebron's off the ball game on? Lebron seems to do quite well cutting to the hoop when he has someone to get him the ball over the top. I hope we aren't trying to compare him to Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, or Reggie Miller whose games are built a certain way.

Lebron also seems to know quite well how to get to his shot, unlike someone like Melo who just tries to force his way to the rim and gets swallowed up by better defenses. Melo is someone whose physical skills probably hampered the development of his basketball IQ.

[OsirusCeltics]

Talk to me AFTER he leads some team to a CHAMPIONSHIP.....! Heck, Allen Iverson had a lot of scoring skills...!

Exactly! And how much people want to support Iverson? None. When both had similar careers. Iverson also lead a supposedly "lowly" team to the Finals. I think its the media's perception of Lebron that is influencing fans

[guava_wrench]

Talk to me AFTER he leads some team to a CHAMPIONSHIP.....! Heck, Allen Iverson had a lot of scoring skills...!

Exactly! And how much people want to support Iverson? None. When both had similar careers. Iverson also lead a supposedly "lowly" team to the Finals. I think its the media's perception of Lebron that is influencing fans

And how many people want to support Barkley. Oh wait, a lot in fact.

First, how are Iverson and Lebron similar? Lebron has always been a team player and listens to coaches. Lebron works on all aspects of his game. Lebron ALWAYS has success no matter who his teammates are.

Second, why do you feel the need to say things like "I think its the media's perception of Lebron that is influencing fans" when people disagree with you? We can all make ad hominem arguments like you if we want.

You keep making opinionated generalizations and people keep handing you your hat by provided actual game data to refute your views. You rationalize this away by saying we are being fooled by the media. Uh, buddy, I haven't watched Sportscenter since the early 90s. Sounds to me like YOU are too influenced by your negative personal emotions against Lebron to appreciate the actual game action. Perhaps YOU are too influenced by CP3's flashy plays to evaluate his overall performance. How about we set the motivations aside and look at actual performances.

[OsirusCeltics]

Talk to me AFTER he leads some team to a CHAMPIONSHIP.....! Heck, Allen Iverson had a lot of scoring skills...!

Exactly! And how much people want to support Iverson? None. When both had similar careers. Iverson also lead a supposedly "lowly" team to the Finals. I think its the media's perception of Lebron that is influencing fans

And how many people want to support Barkley. Oh wait, a lot in fact.

First, how are Iverson and Lebron similar? Lebron has always been a team player and listens to coaches. Lebron works on all aspects of his game. Lebron ALWAYS has success no matter who his teammates are.

Second, why do you feel the need to say things like "I think its the media's perception of Lebron that is influencing fans" when people disagree with you? We can all make ad hominem arguments like you if we want.

You keep making opinionated generalizations and people keep handing you your hat by provided actual game data to refute your views. You rationalize this away by saying we are being fooled by the media. Uh, buddy, I haven't watched Sportscenter since the early 90s. Sounds to me like YOU are too influenced by your negative personal emotions against Lebron to appreciate the actual game action. Perhaps YOU are too influenced by CP3's flashy plays to evaluate his overall performance. How about we set the motivations aside and look at actual performances.

No I think you're blinded by Sportscenter
The argument isn't even about Chris Paul. If you look at the beginning of this thread YOU and other Lebron HOMERS brought up Lebron when I said Chris Paul is the best player. Did I title the post "Chris Paul is the best and Lebron isn't"? No. Its only when I don't go against the agenda and dogma that Lebron is unquestionably the best player. Sorry theres people with other opinions on whos the best player, as hard is that for you to believe. I know, its hard to swallow

It boggles my mind that we praise "gawdy" stats instead of leadership and clutch performance. In my opinion (omg is that illegal?) I hold that higher than gawdy stats. Alot of people worship stats too much, it doesn't tell the whole story. Yes Lebron can average 35 ppg. But how much of that is in the 4th quarter? If he scores 40 in the first 3 quarters then scores 2 points in the 4th with a total with 42 pts, that wouldn't matter to anyone? Would you just overlook that?

No one is doubting Lebron's skill and talent. But its his lack of performance in the important moments that makes him not as good as other players

[syfy9]

Talk to me AFTER he leads some team to a CHAMPIONSHIP.....! Heck, Allen Iverson had a lot of scoring skills...!

Exactly! And how much people want to support Iverson? None. When both had similar careers. Iverson also lead a supposedly "lowly" team to the Finals. I think its the media's perception of Lebron that is influencing fans

And how many people want to support Barkley. Oh wait, a lot in fact.

First, how are Iverson and Lebron similar? Lebron has always been a team player and listens to coaches. Lebron works on all aspects of his game. Lebron ALWAYS has success no matter who his teammates are.

Second, why do you feel the need to say things like "I think its the media's perception of Lebron that is influencing fans" when people disagree with you? We can all make ad hominem arguments like you if we want.

You keep making opinionated generalizations and people keep handing you your hat by provided actual game data to refute your views. You rationalize this away by saying we are being fooled by the media. Uh, buddy, I haven't watched Sportscenter since the early 90s. Sounds to me like YOU are too influenced by your negative personal emotions against Lebron to appreciate the actual game action. Perhaps YOU are too influenced by CP3's flashy plays to evaluate his overall performance. How about we set the motivations aside and look at actual performances.

No I think you're blinded by Sportscenter
The argument isn't even about Chris Paul. If you look at the beginning of this thread YOU and other Lebron HOMERS brought up Lebron when I said Chris Paul is the best player. Did I title the post "Chris Paul is the best and Lebron isn't"? No. Its only when I don't go against the agenda and dogma that Lebron is unquestionably the best player. Sorry theres people with other opinions on whos the best player, as hard is that for you to believe. I know, its hard to swallow

It boggles my mind that we praise "gawdy" stats instead of leadership and clutch performance. In my opinion (omg is that illegal?) I hold that higher than gawdy stats. Alot of people worship stats too much, it doesn't tell the whole story. Yes Lebron can average 35 ppg. But how much of that is in the 4th quarter? If he scores 40 in the first 3 quarters then scores 2 points in the 4th with a total with 42 pts, that wouldn't matter to anyone? Would you just overlook that?

No one is doubting Lebron's skill and talent. But its his lack of performance in the important moments that makes him not as good as other players

So let me know when Lebron ever has a 42 point game with only 2 points in the 4th. Lebron plays well in the 4th as well, but has a tendency to not want to take the last shot. Let's have Paul be the villain of the NBA and see how he'll do. Remember, Lebron was widely renounced as a good clutch performer in his Cavs days.

Your acting like Chris Paul is as good as Jordan in the clutch. He's not that good at the clutch.

Your saying Chris Paul is the best player in the NBA, and that is your opinion. We brought up Lebron because we think (know) he is the best player in the NBA to apply a contradiction to your statement.