Chris Paul is the best player in the NBA

[BballTim]

You have a drastically different view of the guys LeBron played with than I do.

That Cavs roster wasn't particularly talented, but this was something I was thinking about the other day:

It was kind of a perfect cast for Lebron, and they might not have needed that much more.

Defensive center to protect the rim, stretch 4 for spacing, and a great shooter at the 1 who doesn't need/want to bring the ball up the floor.

Perhaps what they needed was some more consistency out of Mo Williams and another scorer at the off-guard.

EDIT: And yes, I bashed that team about as hard as anyone else.

DOUBLE EDIT: I have an uncomfortable amount of love for Chris Paul, but he's not the best player in the NBA

The type of players fit with Lebron, but they weren't near talented enough to win a title.  Just like Philly built a team around Iverson, but that team could have never won a title because there wasn't enough talent around Iverson (though that might be as much Iverson's fault as anyones).  The Cavs were perhaps the worst team to ever make the NBA finals (yes worse than Philly thought that is arguable). 

At the same time, the narrative of Lebron's legacy could've been greatly altered if Antawn Jamison and Mo Williams didn't play so horrific against the Celtics.

Part of that is the type of players they are - Mo Williams gets  hot and cold, and Jamison just couldn't keep up with Garnett on either side of the court - but they played especially poor and still took the eventual Eastern Conference Finals to 6 games.

  It wasn't luck that they played so poorly, it was going up against KG and Rondo.

[StartOrien]

Moranis - For clarification, I've been referring to the Cavs team that lost to the Celtics in Lebron's last year as a member of that team.

[Moranis]

You have a drastically different view of the guys LeBron played with than I do.

That Cavs roster wasn't particularly talented, but this was something I was thinking about the other day:

It was kind of a perfect cast for Lebron, and they might not have needed that much more.

Defensive center to protect the rim, stretch 4 for spacing, and a great shooter at the 1 who doesn't need/want to bring the ball up the floor.

Perhaps what they needed was some more consistency out of Mo Williams and another scorer at the off-guard.

EDIT: And yes, I bashed that team about as hard as anyone else.

DOUBLE EDIT: I have an uncomfortable amount of love for Chris Paul, but he's not the best player in the NBA

The type of players fit with Lebron, but they weren't near talented enough to win a title.  Just like Philly built a team around Iverson, but that team could have never won a title because there wasn't enough talent around Iverson (though that might be as much Iverson's fault as anyones).  The Cavs were perhaps the worst team to ever make the NBA finals (yes worse than Philly thought that is arguable). 

At the same time, the narrative of Lebron's legacy could've been greatly altered if Antawn Jamison and Mo Williams didn't play so horrific against the Celtics.

Part of that is the type of players they are - Mo Williams gets  hot and cold, and Jamison just couldn't keep up with Garnett on either side of the court - but they played especially poor and still took the eventual Eastern Conference Finals to 6 games.

Yep.  Because Lebron James is the best player in basketball.

[Lucky17]

I don't suppose the results of the past several years' worth of MVP voting would have any bearing at all on the conversation?

[RyNye]

Chris Paul IS a good player, but I always feel like he rather unfairly gets credit for things he does not deserve, just because he is a superstar. I can't remember the exact game, but I remember a comeback win the Clippers had this season, which was fueled mostly by Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan slamming it inside. I watched the game, and Chris Paul was bricking shots, or passing it inside. And not good passing, either, just passing it in at the beginning of the shot clock to let whoever was down low work it a bit. In the 4th quarter of that game Paul only had a couple points and like one assist, and yet ESPN lit up the next day with, "CHRIS PAUL IS A BASKETBALL GENIUS BRILLIANTLY ENGINEERING EXPLOSIVE COMEBACK FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP"

It really gets to me. Players like him are good enough to rest on their own laurels, why do we need to literally pull stuff out of our asses to compliment them on?

(Also, I am getting sick of people calling him the smartest player on the floor. He's a good basketball player, yes, savvy with great awareness. But the main reason he is so good is because his game is simple, he plays basketball 101, and yet people treat him like he is some ground-breaking brilliant genius of the game. It's stupid.)

[OsirusCeltics]

I know Lebron is talented, no need to throw stats in my face. He's one of the most talented players in history. But here's the thing, so is everyone else in the NBA. Everyone has talented. What sets you apart is how good you perform in the clutch and if you are a leader

Thats why Chris Paul is the best. He plays awesome in the regular season, then seems to bring his game to another level when he enters the playoffs. He seems like no matter what, he would win that game. And he performs very well in the 4th quarter in the playoffs.

You can score 30 points all you want and dunk on 10 guys in a game. But if you can't lead a team, you are not the best player. Why is that Lebron who was so good in the regular season underperforms in the playoffs? If you're a great player like Magic, Bird, Jordan, you're supposed to perform when it counts. If you can't do that, it means you're not the best

 

[indeedproceed]

I know Lebron is talented, no need to throw stats in my face. He's one of the most talented players in history. But here's the thing, so is everyone else in the NBA. Everyone has talented. What sets you apart is how good you perform in the clutch and if you are a leader

Thats why Chris Paul is the best. He plays awesome in the regular season, then seems to bring his game to another level when he enters the playoffs. He seems like no matter what, he would win that game. And he performs very well in the 4th quarter in the playoffs.

You can score 30 points all you want and dunk on 10 guys in a game. But if you can't lead a team, you are not the best player. Why is that Lebron who was so good in the regular season underperforms in the playoffs? If you're a great player like Magic, Bird, Jordan, you're supposed to perform when it counts. If you can't do that, it means you're not the best

 

Your characterization of LeBron James is just not holding up for me. He's been more successful in the playoffs, in the regular season, and as an individual player than Chris Paul has been. He's statistically better, he's gone farther more consistently in the playoffs, and he's proven he can still succeed with a poorly talented supporting cast.

I just don't see where you have a leg to stand on.

[OsirusCeltics]

Out of curiosity, can anyone name a player in the entire league who's done more in the playoffs without winning a ring than LeBron? 

The guy I always think of (and I really hope LBJ's career ends up just like his (flashy highlights, big numbers, no rings)) is Dominique Wilkins.

Lebron actually reminds me alot of Elgin Baylor

[Fafnir]

I know Lebron is talented, no need to throw stats in my face. He's one of the most talented players in history. But here's the thing, so is everyone else in the NBA. Everyone has talented. What sets you apart is how good you perform in the clutch and if you are a leader

Thats why Chris Paul is the best. He plays awesome in the regular season, then seems to bring his game to another level when he enters the playoffs. He seems like no matter what, he would win that game. And he performs very well in the 4th quarter in the playoffs.

You can score 30 points all you want and dunk on 10 guys in a game. But if you can't lead a team, you are not the best player. Why is that Lebron who was so good in the regular season underperforms in the playoffs? If you're a great player like Magic, Bird, Jordan, you're supposed to perform when it counts. If you can't do that, it means you're not the best

 

Your characterization of LeBron James is just not holding up for me. He's been more successful in the playoffs, in the regular season, and as an individual player than Chris Paul has been. He's statistically better, he's gone farther more consistently in the playoffs, and he's proven he can still succeed with a poorly talented supporting cast.

I just don't see where you have a leg to stand on.

You don't see it IP, its so wondefully simple.

LeBron is so good, that he should win it all every year. Since he hasn't won it all even once, he can't really be that good, thus he in fact sucks and is a terrible leader.

Now a guy like Dirk Nowitizki, he's such a leader he'd never get bounced early and completely underperform in key games with bad turnovers and shots in the clutch....

[scaryjerry]

Chris Paul has had an underrated year, which is suprising because all his other seasons were extremly overatted other then the year he peaked and got the hornets to the second round and then promptly quit on the franchise when they didnt resign/traded tyson chandler

[OsirusCeltics]

I know Lebron is talented, no need to throw stats in my face. He's one of the most talented players in history. But here's the thing, so is everyone else in the NBA. Everyone has talented. What sets you apart is how good you perform in the clutch and if you are a leader

Thats why Chris Paul is the best. He plays awesome in the regular season, then seems to bring his game to another level when he enters the playoffs. He seems like no matter what, he would win that game. And he performs very well in the 4th quarter in the playoffs.

You can score 30 points all you want and dunk on 10 guys in a game. But if you can't lead a team, you are not the best player. Why is that Lebron who was so good in the regular season underperforms in the playoffs? If you're a great player like Magic, Bird, Jordan, you're supposed to perform when it counts. If you can't do that, it means you're not the best

 

Your characterization of LeBron James is just not holding up for me. He's been more successful in the playoffs, in the regular season, and as an individual player than Chris Paul has been. He's statistically better, he's gone farther more consistently in the playoffs, and he's proven he can still succeed with a poorly talented supporting cast.

I just don't see where you have a leg to stand on.

Am I missing something, I thought basketball was a team game? Chris Paul has had way more horrible teams than Lebron and its not even close. Paul has done less with more. Even though Lebron's teammates may not have been glamorized, but they deff had scoring ability

I think its the Jordan era that ruined this perception. "Jordan did it by himself, he carried his team". When no one looks at how he Pippen, Rodman, Horace Grant, Paxston, Kerr, Kucok, etc. when no other team in the league had a team as deep as that. Sorry it is a TEAM game. Lebron isn't superman

[OsirusCeltics]

I know Lebron is talented, no need to throw stats in my face. He's one of the most talented players in history. But here's the thing, so is everyone else in the NBA. Everyone has talented. What sets you apart is how good you perform in the clutch and if you are a leader

Thats why Chris Paul is the best. He plays awesome in the regular season, then seems to bring his game to another level when he enters the playoffs. He seems like no matter what, he would win that game. And he performs very well in the 4th quarter in the playoffs.

You can score 30 points all you want and dunk on 10 guys in a game. But if you can't lead a team, you are not the best player. Why is that Lebron who was so good in the regular season underperforms in the playoffs? If you're a great player like Magic, Bird, Jordan, you're supposed to perform when it counts. If you can't do that, it means you're not the best

 

Your characterization of LeBron James is just not holding up for me. He's been more successful in the playoffs, in the regular season, and as an individual player than Chris Paul has been. He's statistically better, he's gone farther more consistently in the playoffs, and he's proven he can still succeed with a poorly talented supporting cast.

I just don't see where you have a leg to stand on.

You don't see it IP, its so wondefully simple.

LeBron is so good, that he should win it all every year. Since he hasn't won it all even once, he can't really be that good, thus he in fact sucks and is a terrible leader.

Now a guy like Dirk Nowitizki, he's such a leader he'd never get bounced early and completely underperform in key games with bad turnovers and shots in the clutch....

Why is there such a discrepancy between his performance between the regular season to the playoffs? Lets not even talk about his team success, but he doesn't even perform well at all in th playoffs, and you're giving him a pass?

Its sad the media is embracing mediocrity. He has awesome stats, yeah thats enough to be the best player in the league

[Fafnir]

See here's the problem Osirus:

Why is there such a discrepancy between his performance between the regular season to the playoffs? Lets not even talk about his team success, but he doesn't even perform well at all in th playoffs, and you're giving him a pass?

This statement isn't true and you haven't shown one shred of evidence other than the lack of title that it is.

Meanwhile people have taken apart most of your specific examples of his supposed failures. Myself the 08-09 Magic series but others have addressed the other years of LeBron's playoff careers.

LeBron is the best player in the league during the regular season and the best player in the league during the post-season. That doesn't mean he always plays well every game, but look at his overall performance and he's awesome.

His regular season averages:

39.9 MPG 27.6 PPG 7.2 RPG 6.9 APG 48.3% FG .569 TS%

His playoff averages:

43.3 MPG 28.0 PPG 8.3 RPG 6.9 APG 46.1% FG .562 TS%

[Donoghus]

I know Lebron is talented, no need to throw stats in my face. He's one of the most talented players in history. But here's the thing, so is everyone else in the NBA. Everyone has talented. What sets you apart is how good you perform in the clutch and if you are a leader

Thats why Chris Paul is the best. He plays awesome in the regular season, then seems to bring his game to another level when he enters the playoffs. He seems like no matter what, he would win that game. And he performs very well in the 4th quarter in the playoffs.

You can score 30 points all you want and dunk on 10 guys in a game. But if you can't lead a team, you are not the best player. Why is that Lebron who was so good in the regular season underperforms in the playoffs? If you're a great player like Magic, Bird, Jordan, you're supposed to perform when it counts. If you can't do that, it means you're not the best

 

Your characterization of LeBron James is just not holding up for me. He's been more successful in the playoffs, in the regular season, and as an individual player than Chris Paul has been. He's statistically better, he's gone farther more consistently in the playoffs, and he's proven he can still succeed with a poorly talented supporting cast.

I just don't see where you have a leg to stand on.

You don't see it IP, its so wondefully simple.

LeBron is so good, that he should win it all every year. Since he hasn't won it all even once, he can't really be that good, thus he in fact sucks and is a terrible leader.

Now a guy like Dirk Nowitizki, he's such a leader he'd never get bounced early and completely underperform in key games with bad turnovers and shots in the clutch....

Why is there such a discrepancy between his performance between the regular season to the playoffs? Lets not even talk about his team success, but he doesn't even perform well at all in th playoffs, and you're giving him a pass?

Its sad the media is embracing mediocrity. He has awesome stats, yeah thats enough to be the best player in the league

He's put up some pretty gawdy numbers that you seem to be ignoring. People point out '09 or '07 for example.  He just hasn't won the title yet.  Talking playoffs and then comparing him with CP3 doesn't do much since the evidence illustrates Lebron has gone farther in the playoffs multiple times than CP3.  He has two Finals appearances with CP3 has zero. 

Just admit you don't like the guy.  That's the one clear thing that I've been able to take out of all of this.

[OsirusCeltics]

See here's the problem Osirus:

Why is there such a discrepancy between his performance between the regular season to the playoffs? Lets not even talk about his team success, but he doesn't even perform well at all in th playoffs, and you're giving him a pass?

This statement isn't true and you haven't shown one shred of evidence other than the lack of title that it is.

Meanwhile people have taken apart most of your specific examples of his supposed failures. Myself the 08-09 Magic series but others have addressed the other years of LeBron's playoff careers.

LeBron is the best player in the league during the regular season and the best player in the league during the post-season. That doesn't mean he always plays well every game, but look at his overall performance and he's awesome.

You know thats a joke. Just stop it. Sportscenter is not your friend, sportscenter is not your friend