J.O.

[bfrombleacher]

I'll admit, I was kind of on the "dang it Doc, play the rookies" train. I even called him a bad coach. Doc is part of the reason why we're fighting now through all those injuries...

I concede that I was wrong on Doc...except for the Jermaine O'Neal part. I still maintain that JO sucked.

JO sucked, JO sucked, JO sucked.

He contributed as much as Hollins. Maybe even less.

Sure he was not an offensive threat. But seriously? An NBA player who can't finish gimmies?

You argue that he was the best defensive big we had... I think it was Joakim Noah, strictly an energy and utility big who can't create at all (albeit an elite one at that), dribbled right past our "best defensive big" and slammed it in one of the sad Bulls losses. He couldn't even foul hard enough to intimidate (was it me or did he allow quite a few and ones?). He failed at being 250 pounds of mass...

The worst part was the intangibles (for the lack of a better term). He wasn't exactly as bad as Blatche or Baron Davis, he tried definitely. The problem is he sucked so much of the energy off everyone. I'm surprised he even managed 15-20 a game. He looked like hell. When Wilcox filled in for him, the team had a whole different complexity.



So...why the hell did Doc play him so much? It's so strange... Could it be orders from the top telling Doc to squeeze every last penny's worth out of JO? Or is it just me who saw JO as such a gigantic, ugly problem?

[jdz101]

He was good at taking charges...mainly because that meant standing there and not moving, then falling to the ground.

He was a good tenpin.

[Fafnir]

Jermaine was a good defensive C still. He did everything else poorly (rebound, score, etc) but he made it harder for teams to get buckets on us.

Doc was hoping he'd play himself into similar performance level that he gave us in the playoffs last last year.

[snively]

JO was very solid defensively - in the post and as a weakside helper.  He wasn't terrible on the boards either.

But yes he was a big drain offensively, not only for his inability to convert open looks at a high %, but because his lack of speed did us no favors in transition.

[Finkelskyhook]

The only thing O'Neal did well was tweet and cash his paychecks.

[Tai]

I think it's clear JO was just done. He was coming off knee surgery, and the lockout didn't help anyone.

I'm not sure what purpose this topic serves, though. I thought this dead horse was already beaten.

[Yogi]

   It's unfair that reporters with nothing better to do and gullible fans distort a players contribution.  Doc Rivers, Danny Ainge and the players when asked about JO had nothing but POSITIVE things to say about him.  He came in, he worked hard and he sacrificed his body for this team.  The guy epitomized class.  It's unfortunate that his body didn't hold up but that's hardly his fault.  His Celtics career was short, but he pretty much won the New York series for us last year.  We were struggling the first couple of games when he came in and just changed the game with his hustle and defense.  Without that we might not even have made it past that series.  
   Before making threads like this, I challenge anyone to find one negative comment about Jermaine made by Doc, Danny or any of the Celtics who would actually know something about what he did.  No reporters looking to sell papers or make a name for themselves or just plain bullies picking on an easy target. 

[Finkelskyhook]

  It's unfair that reporters with nothing better to do and gullible fans distort a players contribution.  Doc Rivers, Danny Ainge and the players when asked about JO had nothing but POSITIVE things to say about him.  He came in, he worked hard and he sacrificed his body for this team.  The guy epitomized class.  It's unfortunate that his body didn't hold up but that's hardly his fault.  His Celtics career was short, but he pretty much won the New York series for us last year.  We were struggling the first couple of games when he came in and just changed the game with his hustle and defense.  Without that we might not even have made it past that series.  
   Before making threads like this, I challenge anyone to find one negative comment about Jermaine made by Doc, Danny or any of the Celtics who would actually know something about what he did.  No reporters looking to sell papers or make a name for themselves or just plain bullies picking on an easy target.  

What exactly did you want them to say?  

I think Rivers learned a lot about player management from the results of some of his classless on-court and to the press berading of his players prior to Allen, Garnett, and Thibodeau coming on board.  There's been almost no calling out of players. Even when things have gone poorly since then.

Here's the reality, Yogi.  O'Neal started last season grossly out of shape.  Grossly.  If his rhetoric matched reality he'd have come to camp in shape and started the season in the best shape of his career.  Instead, the only case you could make for somebody who put less effort into preperation was the other O'Neal.  He clearly wasn't interested in contributing.

But we've seen how destructive it is to a team to voice garbage publicly....Orlando anyone?

Celtics management didn't need to publicly state the obvious.  It would accomplish nothing.

[SHAQATTACK]

[Tai]

  It's unfair that reporters with nothing better to do and gullible fans distort a players contribution.  Doc Rivers, Danny Ainge and the players when asked about JO had nothing but POSITIVE things to say about him.  He came in, he worked hard and he sacrificed his body for this team.  The guy epitomized class.  It's unfortunate that his body didn't hold up but that's hardly his fault.  His Celtics career was short, but he pretty much won the New York series for us last year.  We were struggling the first couple of games when he came in and just changed the game with his hustle and defense.  Without that we might not even have made it past that series.  
   Before making threads like this, I challenge anyone to find one negative comment about Jermaine made by Doc, Danny or any of the Celtics who would actually know something about what he did.  No reporters looking to sell papers or make a name for themselves or just plain bullies picking on an easy target.  

What exactly did you want them to say?  

I think Rivers learned a lot about player management from the results of some of his classless on-court and to the press berading of his players prior to Allen, Garnett, and Thibodeau coming on board.  There's been almost no calling out of players. Even when things have gone poorly since then.

Here's the reality, Yogi.  O'Neal started last season grossly out of shape.  Grossly.  If his rhetoric matched reality he'd have come to camp in shape and started the season in the best shape of his career.  Instead, the only case you could make for somebody who put less effort into preperation was the other O'Neal.  He clearly wasn't interested in contributing.

But we've seen how destructive it is to a team to voice garbage publicly....Orlando anyone?

Celtics management didn't need to publicly state the obvious.  It would accomplish nothing.

Considering you've taken injuries to mean he was just dogging it, I dunno why I should take this as an objective response.

The only thing backing up your argument is that he wasn't healthy. When he was, maybe Wilcox did better than him, but not Stiemsma. If you just want to say that he'd be healthier if he worked out more, then who knows. Didn't Pierce also come supposedly out of shape?

However, your premise seems based on the idea that Doc just didn't want to blast players, even though you've admitted that you just haven't liked JO for his actions in the Palace brawl. You've also gotten on him for working on starting his business while injured, even though out the other side of your mouth you suggest he hang his playing shoes up, anyways.

My point is, you have not shown any concrete proof to back up your premise that Doc just kept his mouth shut; you've instead interpreted JO's injuries and his actions in order to fit what you want to say about him.

[Finkelskyhook]

Part of it came with winning, I'm sure, Tai...But Rivers' demeanor changed after the tanking season.  There was no more blasting players publicly.  While showing displeasure for play at times since then...There's very little of the on-court browbeating players that was prevelent prior to the championship season.

O'Neal hung up his shoes after his last Miami season.  I didn't have to suggest it.  The shape he started last season with spoke to that.  I hoped I was wrong when it appeared that he was in much better shape to start this season.  There's a difference between not being healthy and being out of shape.    Then came the "injuries".  I thought that might mean he had some interest in showing up during a contract year....Like his last Miami season.

You're right, Tai. I thought O'Neal showed who he was years ago both on the court and off. I thought O'Neal's actions in the brawl were despicable and cowardly.  I thought the way he handled his suspension was equally so. 

That anybody couldn't see how this signing would go is beyond me.

[Mr October]

I'm just piping in to say that I appreciate what JO tried to do for the Celtics. He played really solid defense, but his body was betrayed by his long list of injuries over the years. You could just see that those knees were a shell of what they once were.

Anyway i don't see the point in trashing him today. Its time for his career to be over, and time for the Celtics and Celtics fans to move on.

[Chris]

Doc is part of the reason why we're fighting now through all those injuries...

Not to pick out a throwaway comment, but this is very curious to me.  What injuries are Doc responsible for?

Ray twisted his ankle running up the court.

Rondo hurt his back when he fell going in hard for a layup.

Stiemsma's feet were bad even before he started playing major minutes.

Green and Wilcox' problems have nothing to do with basketball.

JO's injury was from last season (or even before).

The only injury that Doc has played the slightest bit of a role in would be Pietrus, whose bum knee flared up when he played too many minutes on a back to back to back after being out a while.  But I can hardly blame Doc for that, given that they were already so shorthanded at that point.

[Finkelskyhook]

Doc is part of the reason why we're fighting now through all those injuries...

Not to pick out a throwaway comment, but this is very curious to me.  What injuries are Doc responsible for?

Ray twisted his ankle running up the court.

Rondo hurt his back when he fell going in hard for a layup.

Stiemsma's feet were bad even before he started playing major minutes.

Green and Wilcox' problems have nothing to do with basketball.

JO's injury was from last season (or even before).

The only injury that Doc has played the slightest bit of a role in would be Pietrus, whose bum knee flared up when he played too many minutes on a back to back to back after being out a while.  But I can hardly blame Doc for that, given that they were already so shorthanded at that point.

Concur.  I think Rivers had done an excellent job balancing winning and keeping his core fresh in spite of a catastrophic number of injuries.

[slamtheking]

TP just for that image.  love it