Author Topic: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.  (Read 27874 times)

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Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2012, 11:22:08 AM »

Offline BballTim

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I could go on about this all morning but that's probably enough.  Even if it wasn't painfully obvious that Dwight is the better player, for those reasons alone he should be given the advantage. 

So Dwight Howard can jump and is tall. He is also strong.
He can't shoot.
He has no post moves.
If he were 6 feet 9 he would be a poor mans Josh Smith.
He played a lot of games.
He is a complete disappointment in his offensive development at this point in his career.
Once his jumping is gone he will be about as useful as Brian Scalabrine.

Playing 82 games over 54 does not make you a better basketball player. It means you haven't had bad injury luck. If Howard injures one knee and his mobility is limited to that of Andrew Bynum, what can he bring to a team that Kendrick Perkins can't?

In fact, is it safe to say that Dwight Howard is a giant disappointment given his size and athleticism?
On that Orlando team why wouldn't Bynum be averaging 25ppg and 12-14 rebounds per game.
You can foul Howard with 2 minutes left because he's gonna miss those free throws. Bynum is going to hit 20% more free throws.

I want to hear how Howard is the clear cut winner in this argument. If Bynum plays like this for the next 3 years how is this even a conversation?





If I was 7'2, I could be in the NBA.


But since I am 5'8, I am not.


Howard is a 7 footer.  So is Bynum.  If both were shorter, they wouldn't be as good. 



You can say that about every player in the NBA.  If Muggsy Bogues was shorter then 5'3, he wouldn't have been as good.




Howard is the better player then Bynum. 

Actually, Bynum is the more complete basketball player by far.
He has more skill, more moves, a higher basketball IQ, he's a better free throw shooter.
Howard is a defensive center. Bynum is a complete center. He can score through multiple avenues, even with another elite 7 footer in the paint with him, and he is an excellent defender.
The only reason this is a conversation is because of Bynum's injury problems-which granted, do effect this discussion but he has proven this year that he is by far a superior player.

Have you watched most Lakers and Magic games this year?
Did you see Bynum vs the Clippers the other night? He does things that Howard wouldn't dream of doing.

Dwight Howard being voted as the 2nd best player in the NBA is a joke, just as Chris Paul being in the top 5 is a joke.
He is one of the best defenders of course, but for me it boils down to this:
 
You can't go to Howard in the clutch time because he has no post moves and he can't shoot free throws.
He plays great defense and is great finishing around the rim, but he cannot create his own shot and finish like Bynum, nor can he be the 'go to' guy at the end of the game.
That's where the argument ends in my opinion.
You're down by 2 points with 15 seconds remaining in game 7 of the finals. Who's hands do you want the ball in? Honestly?

  So does this mean that you think that Robert Horry is a better player than LeBron? Because most everybody would rather have Horry taking a last second shot in game 7 of the finals than James.

Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2012, 11:45:14 AM »

Offline mcshane41

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Bynum is playing better right now.

Dwight plays better (and plays more) on a consistent basis.

It will take more than one season to overtake a player who has been as consistently as good as Dwight.

Greg Steimsma will over take both players once he fully develops.

(Haha, no he won't its just fine to say stuff like that).

Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2012, 11:58:37 AM »

Offline LeoMoreno

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Bynum is playing better right now.

Dwight plays better (and plays more) on a consistent basis.

It will take more than one season to overtake a player who has been as consistently as good as Dwight.

Greg Steimsma will over take both players once he fully develops.

(Haha, no he won't its just fine to say stuff like that).

Greg could actually become better. He's got better shot blocking instinct than Bynum, he's got a jumper unlike those two, he can shoot free throws, he's not a dirty, self centered, egocentric player, and he moves great defensively and offensively. Keep in mind that the team had little time to practice and he's pretty amazing on both ends.

However, his confidence defensively keeps getting drowned with all the refs calling stupid, moronic, idiotic, retarded, ugly, Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.n awful fouls on him. If they keep up with that, he won't be able to play hard defence for a while, and that may stick, like it has with Bosh.

Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2012, 12:08:32 PM »

Offline Dante

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No wonder we beat the Lakers in 2008: they were missing the best center in the NBA.

Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2012, 01:02:44 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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In my opinion Bynum has more potential if it wasn't for the injuries to be better than Dwight

Dwight is a good defensive player than Bynum but IMO, Bynum has a  better offensive game than him. Dwight has one move and one move only, post all the way down, hook or dunk. Bynum also has a nice mid-range jumper


Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2012, 01:18:17 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Remember when people said Kevin Durant was better than leBron James, cuz we all hated LeBron James's diva-antics and liked Kevin Durant just a little bit more?

This is like that. Bynum is not better than Dwight Howard. He does have a more varied and skilled offensive game, but for all that, he's not considerably more efficient than Howard because of it. He's a better free throw shooter, but Howard draws more fouls.

And defensively, while both are good players, Howard has Bynum by a country mile.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2012, 01:25:47 PM »

Offline syfy9

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I could go on about this all morning but that's probably enough.  Even if it wasn't painfully obvious that Dwight is the better player, for those reasons alone he should be given the advantage. 

So Dwight Howard can jump and is tall. He is also strong.
He can't shoot.
He has no post moves.
If he were 6 feet 9 he would be a poor mans Josh Smith.
He played a lot of games.
He is a complete disappointment in his offensive development at this point in his career.
Once his jumping is gone he will be about as useful as Brian Scalabrine.

Playing 82 games over 54 does not make you a better basketball player. It means you haven't had bad injury luck. If Howard injures one knee and his mobility is limited to that of Andrew Bynum, what can he bring to a team that Kendrick Perkins can't?

In fact, is it safe to say that Dwight Howard is a giant disappointment given his size and athleticism?
On that Orlando team why wouldn't Bynum be averaging 25ppg and 12-14 rebounds per game.
You can foul Howard with 2 minutes left because he's gonna miss those free throws. Bynum is going to hit 20% more free throws.

I want to hear how Howard is the clear cut winner in this argument. If Bynum plays like this for the next 3 years how is this even a conversation?





If I was 7'2, I could be in the NBA.


But since I am 5'8, I am not.


Howard is a 7 footer.  So is Bynum.  If both were shorter, they wouldn't be as good. 



You can say that about every player in the NBA.  If Muggsy Bogues was shorter then 5'3, he wouldn't have been as good.




Howard is the better player then Bynum. 

Actually, Bynum is the more complete basketball player by far.
He has more skill, more moves, a higher basketball IQ, he's a better free throw shooter.
Howard is a defensive center. Bynum is a complete center. He can score through multiple avenues, even with another elite 7 footer in the paint with him, and he is an excellent defender.
The only reason this is a conversation is because of Bynum's injury problems-which granted, do effect this discussion but he has proven this year that he is by far a superior player.

Have you watched most Lakers and Magic games this year?
Did you see Bynum vs the Clippers the other night? He does things that Howard wouldn't dream of doing.

Dwight Howard being voted as the 2nd best player in the NBA is a joke, just as Chris Paul being in the top 5 is a joke.
He is one of the best defenders of course, but for me it boils down to this:
 
You can't go to Howard in the clutch time because he has no post moves and he can't shoot free throws.
He plays great defense and is great finishing around the rim, but he cannot create his own shot and finish like Bynum, nor can he be the 'go to' guy at the end of the game.
That's where the argument ends in my opinion.
You're down by 2 points with 15 seconds remaining in game 7 of the finals. Who's hands do you want the ball in? Honestly?

  So does this mean that you think that Robert Horry is a better player than LeBron? Because most everybody would rather have Horry taking a last second shot in game 7 of the finals than James.

The Horry-Lebron comparison would work for Howard-Emeka Okafor. It would not work for players as similar as Howard and Bynum.

Try Prime Kobe-Lebron?
I like Marcus Smart

Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2012, 01:48:19 PM »

Offline Dante

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DH IS the best Center in NBA. The hate is not going to take that away from him.

Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2012, 02:24:42 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I could go on about this all morning but that's probably enough.  Even if it wasn't painfully obvious that Dwight is the better player, for those reasons alone he should be given the advantage. 

So Dwight Howard can jump and is tall. He is also strong.
He can't shoot.
He has no post moves.
If he were 6 feet 9 he would be a poor mans Josh Smith.
He played a lot of games.
He is a complete disappointment in his offensive development at this point in his career.
Once his jumping is gone he will be about as useful as Brian Scalabrine.

Playing 82 games over 54 does not make you a better basketball player. It means you haven't had bad injury luck. If Howard injures one knee and his mobility is limited to that of Andrew Bynum, what can he bring to a team that Kendrick Perkins can't?

In fact, is it safe to say that Dwight Howard is a giant disappointment given his size and athleticism?
On that Orlando team why wouldn't Bynum be averaging 25ppg and 12-14 rebounds per game.
You can foul Howard with 2 minutes left because he's gonna miss those free throws. Bynum is going to hit 20% more free throws.

I want to hear how Howard is the clear cut winner in this argument. If Bynum plays like this for the next 3 years how is this even a conversation?





If I was 7'2, I could be in the NBA.


But since I am 5'8, I am not.


Howard is a 7 footer.  So is Bynum.  If both were shorter, they wouldn't be as good. 



You can say that about every player in the NBA.  If Muggsy Bogues was shorter then 5'3, he wouldn't have been as good.




Howard is the better player then Bynum. 

Actually, Bynum is the more complete basketball player by far.
He has more skill, more moves, a higher basketball IQ, he's a better free throw shooter.
Howard is a defensive center. Bynum is a complete center. He can score through multiple avenues, even with another elite 7 footer in the paint with him, and he is an excellent defender.
The only reason this is a conversation is because of Bynum's injury problems-which granted, do effect this discussion but he has proven this year that he is by far a superior player.

Have you watched most Lakers and Magic games this year?
Did you see Bynum vs the Clippers the other night? He does things that Howard wouldn't dream of doing.

Dwight Howard being voted as the 2nd best player in the NBA is a joke, just as Chris Paul being in the top 5 is a joke.
He is one of the best defenders of course, but for me it boils down to this:
 
You can't go to Howard in the clutch time because he has no post moves and he can't shoot free throws.
He plays great defense and is great finishing around the rim, but he cannot create his own shot and finish like Bynum, nor can he be the 'go to' guy at the end of the game.
That's where the argument ends in my opinion.
You're down by 2 points with 15 seconds remaining in game 7 of the finals. Who's hands do you want the ball in? Honestly?

  So does this mean that you think that Robert Horry is a better player than LeBron? Because most everybody would rather have Horry taking a last second shot in game 7 of the finals than James.

The Horry-Lebron comparison would work for Howard-Emeka Okafor. It would not work for players as similar as Howard and Bynum.

Try Prime Kobe-Lebron?

  It works because it shows how nonsensical claims that the person you want taking the last shot is always the better player. And Howard and Bynum aren't that similar. You're comparing a player that's 3 time DPOY, 4 time 1st team all-nba who's finished in the top 5 in MVP voting the last 4 years to a 1 time all-star who's never been known as the best player on his team.

Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2012, 02:26:05 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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  It works because it shows how nonsensical claims that the person you want taking the last shot is always the better player. And Howard and Bynum aren't that similar. You're comparing a player that's 3 time DPOY, 4 time 1st team all-nba who's finished in the top 5 in MVP voting the last 4 years to a 1 time all-star who's never been known as the best player on his team.


Well said.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2012, 02:32:32 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Remember when people said Kevin Durant was better than leBron James, cuz we all hated LeBron James's diva-antics and liked Kevin Durant just a little bit more?

This is like that. Bynum is not better than Dwight Howard. He does have a more varied and skilled offensive game, but for all that, he's not considerably more efficient than Howard because of it. He's a better free throw shooter, but Howard draws more fouls.

And defensively, while both are good players, Howard has Bynum by a country mile.

Umm...Kevin Durant IS better than LeBron James.  The analogy doesn't really apply.

Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2012, 02:36:00 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Remember when people said Kevin Durant was better than leBron James, cuz we all hated LeBron James's diva-antics and liked Kevin Durant just a little bit more?

This is like that. Bynum is not better than Dwight Howard. He does have a more varied and skilled offensive game, but for all that, he's not considerably more efficient than Howard because of it. He's a better free throw shooter, but Howard draws more fouls.

And defensively, while both are good players, Howard has Bynum by a country mile.

Umm...Kevin Durant IS better than LeBron James.  The analogy doesn't really apply.

You sir, are incorrect. He's more likable. LeBron is a better player this season, and every season he's been in the league the same time as Durant.

And that's not to say Durant isn't an amazing player who is fun to watch and way more fun to root for. He's just not as good as the guy we love to hate. Its extremely applicable.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2012, 03:06:50 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Last I checked, Dwight was still averaging 21 points, 14.5 rebounds, 2 blocks, 1.5 steals on 57% shooting ... I'd say he's still the best center. 

Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #58 on: April 08, 2012, 03:55:49 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Quote from: guava_wrench  Howard isn't a head case. Talking to management in private is hardly a headcase action [and
Despite getting hammered non-stop with hard fouls, he has very few incidents on court

Well, he did do a very public Hamlet, re should I stay or should I go. As for on court, he does get nettled and swing elbows. Not a headcase, but  not exactly matured, either.
What big man doesn't use his elbows? And with the reasoning KG is also not 'matured'. How is this at all similar to Bynum being a prima donna, frustrated the entire Lakers organization with his antics?

Bynum is unrepentant about take a 3 with time still on the clock, gets ejected for pointless yapping, and blows off team meetings.

Sure, he is no Lebron when it comes to gracefully accepting pounding, but because Howard plays down low, he gets hit a lot more. It is not immature to give defenders something to think about if they are going to continue hammering him. I think that is actually an example of maturity and savvy. I not, then why isn't having all your bigs hammer him an example of this alleged immaturity?

Re: Dwight Howard is no longer the NBA's best center.
« Reply #59 on: April 08, 2012, 06:08:43 PM »

Offline aporel#18

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No way Bynum is better than Dwight. He might be a better offensive player, but Dwight can dominate defensively and is healthier at this stage.

Bynum's numbers are very good, but he's playing alongside Pau Gasol, the most skilled big man in the League. He finds Bynum for easy baskets, and opens space with his ability to hit outside shots. If Bynum played with Zach Randolph his numbers would be worse than Marc Gasol's.

Bynum will be even better playing alongside Garnett AND Rondo, of course, but so would Dwight.

That said, both are morons, while powerful players. I'd rather have Marc Gasol on the Celtics.

This is called twisted logic.
You're claiming that playing with Gasol actually helps Bynums stats when he has to share the paint with another elite 7 footer?
 He has to share the ball with Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol- two All stars. Who does Dwight share the ball with? Ryan Anderson?
You're implying that without Gasol his numbers would go down?
This is laughable.

Put the two players with their exact skill sets and bball IQ in Andrew Bynums body.
Who is the better player?
Now put the two players in Dwight Howards body and do the same thing?
Bynum wins both times, and although Bynum has lost a certain amount of time and dominance with injuries, if he stays injury free, he will have a longer career than Howard because once Howard loses his athleticism what does he have?
Nothing.

well, for starters, you can't separate body and skillset, that's pure fantasy basketball. Both are very important things. Bynum is more skilled on the offense, but Dwight has half a knee on him when we talk about physical abilities. And on D, Dwight is a more dominant player because of his knees aka healthier, more durable body.

What I was trying to explain is that Bynum has benefited from playing alongside Pau. I didn't mention Kobe, so there's no need to bring him. And I still believe playing alongside Pau has helped Bynum, and I wasn't talking only about the numbers, I was talking about how good he looks on the court. Of course without Pau he would be getting more touches, but Pau is willing to pass the ball. Put a happy-trigger PF alongside Bynum and he's getting about the same touches, or even less. Bynum has developed a nice jumper and some offensive tricks, but he's always gotten easy baskets under the rim because of Pau. You might be right, and his scoring numbers could be better without Pau, but maybe his efficiency would go down.

You put Bynum as the starting C on the Celtics, with Rondo and KG, and his numbers would skyrocket while playing alongside 3 HOF and an All-Star PG. You put him in Orlando and he probably shoots 10-15 more times every game, but that doesn't guarantee scoring. Last night Howard (who isn't as good offensive player as Bynum) was attacking the post and bricking shots. Basketball is a team game, you get more efficient when you move the ball and find the open man. That's why more touches don't always mean better numbers.

You put Howard as the starting C on this Celtics team, and his offensive flaws don't show that much. His offensive numbers would be good, but his efficiency will be much higher. And he can dominate on D, so in my opinion he's still the better option as a center you'd like for your team.

If the Lakers get rid of Gasol I'd expect Bynum to shoot a bit more (not much because of Kobe) but his numbers would be very similar.

I still like Marc Gasol, he's a good passer and shooter, more durable than Bynum, bigger than Howard, bigger BBIQ than both, and he's humble and mature which is a little underrated thing. But Bynum and Howard are spectacular and very good bigmen in this era, and would look good on any team.