If you don't think we can make a "legit" run...

[Who]

If the Clippers would like to move Mo's Salary, most likely to sign vet guys at different positions in the off season - which I think is the right move, this makes Mo for Allen attractive for them.

Have you heard anything about LAC wanting to get out of Mo Willimas' contract?

I haven't heard anything about the Clippers wanting to move Mo Williams' salary. I would be shocked if they did (want to do that). I thought that Mo has done a really good job for them this season.

For me, Mo Williams has been their fourth or fifth best player this year. One of the best backup combo guards in the league. Gives them a real threat in the backcourt outside of Chris Paul. Someone who can create a little off the dribble and is a very capable jump-shooter. Can play the point while Chris Paul rests (keeps Paul's minutes under control) and can play alongside Paul in a explosive offensive minded small backcourt. A guy who causes matchup problems off the bench for opposing teams.

I would be very surprised if they wanted to get out of that contract. One only year remaining. A little pricey for a sixth man ($8.5mil) but not too bad. Expires as Blake Griffin's rookie deal ends. With Griffin's big pay rise on the horizon, and possible luxury tax concerns on the horizon, the timing of Mo Williams' contract ending seems good.

Looks like a valuable player on a decent contract to me.

[LooseCannon]

If the Clippers would like to move Mo's Salary, most likely to sign vet guys at different positions in the off season - which I think is the right move, this makes Mo for Allen attractive for them.

Have you heard anything about LAC wanting to get out of Mo Willimas' contract?

I've seen the rumor that the Clippers offered Williams for Allen and were turned down.  I've also heard the rumor that Ainge wants a pick AND a young player in any deal for Allen, and the only young player the Clippers have worth trading for is Eric Bledsoe.

[ScoobyDoo]

Agreed, I do think that Mo Williams has done well for them this year but he is a classic combo guard with good value. Keeping him is a definite option...

But I think they could put his money to use much better in the off season on other players, possibly two good, supporting vet guys, perhaps splitting the $8.5 M between a very solid off guard AND a very solid back up point. Or, signing an UFA like Ersan Ilyasova for decent money and then a "priced right" vet point behind Paul for 10 minutes a night.   

Meanwhile I also heard what Cannon heard, that they offered Williams for Ray, which also makes sense. Now you're pairing one of the best all time shooting off guards, with Chris Paul and Blake Griffin, plus you get impeccable Vet leadership for a young team vying for a ring.

Also, no one mentions it, but the trade I'm proposing is:

Ray, Wilcox & Pavlovic:
for
Williams, Thompkins, Foye and a future 1st.

So for me as GM, the question is, do Ray and Wilcox significantly increase this team's chances to win a ring right now moreso than Randy Foye, Mo Williams and an unproven second round big man?

Ray is a extremely well proven clutch performer in the playoffs. When Paul gets jammed and Griffin is doubled down on, you want to pass it to Ray, Foye or Mo in the corner with 6 seconds left, down by two? Thought so...

Anyway, all I'm saying is that it's a calculation by the GM. For me as the Clipper's GM that's no brainer for me.

For the Celtics? Instead of a 37 year old Ray starting at off guard for us or coming off the bench, or not being here at all, we get a future 1st, a prospect young big man, some trade value in both Mo Williams and Randy Foye...

But I understand both choices, doing that deal or not from the Clipper's standpoint. For the Celtics I wouldn't only do it if I were moving all of the big three in a total blow up mode.

[Who]

“If there is a move that helps our team now, we’ll make it,” Blazers interim GM Chad Buchanan said. “But we’re not going to sacrifice anything long term for the short term. We’re realistic about where we’re at right now. We’re going to have to fight to get into the playoffs. We’ve dug ourselves a little hole. But we don’t want to make a decision right now that will impact us negatively long term just to salvage something short term.”

Seems to rule out Portland trading Batum for Garnett

Link

[LooseCannon]

“If there is a move that helps our team now, we’ll make it,” Blazers interim GM Chad Buchanan said. “But we’re not going to sacrifice anything long term for the short term. We’re realistic about where we’re at right now. We’re going to have to fight to get into the playoffs. We’ve dug ourselves a little hole. But we don’t want to make a decision right now that will impact us negatively long term just to salvage something short term.”

Seems to rule out Portland trading Batum for Garnett

I don't think you need a quote from a Blazers front office person to rule that out.

[csfansince60s]

If we can't make a legit run why delay the rebuilding process?

Because if you want to trade Rondo and Pierce, you probably get more of a return for them in the summer than at the trade deadline.

If we are not legit contenders, delaying trading Pierce and  Rondo is bad for two reasons:

1. Their value goes down in the summer, not up, especially Pierce's. Both are valuable to contenders now or will make a team a contender. Pierce less so as years go by. Also, if you are assuming we are not contenders, it's unlikely their stock goes up by playing on a losing team.

2. By trading them now, we are definitely in the lottery. Keep them and our pick is much worse.

[LooseCannon]

1. Their value goes down in the summer, not up, especially Pierce's. Both are valuable to contenders now or will make a team a contender. Pierce less so as years go by. Also, if you are assuming we are not contenders, it's unlikely their stock goes up by playing on a losing team.

I'm really going to disagree with this.  It's easier to trade for a big contract in the summer because it is easier to manipulate cap space.  More teams will be able to trade for them.  There's no team that is desperate to add Rondo or Pierce, so no teams will overpay.  More teams will be optimistic about having a shot at being a contender if they make the right deals.  A larger marketplace means more competition and the price goes up. 

[csfansince60s]

1. Their value goes down in the summer, not up, especially Pierce's. Both are valuable to contenders now or will make a team a contender. Pierce less so as years go by. Also, if you are assuming we are not contenders, it's unlikely their stock goes up by playing on a losing team.

I'm really going to disagree with this.  It's easier to trade for a big contract in the summer because it is easier to manipulate cap space.  More teams will be able to trade for them.  There's no team that is desperate to add Rondo or Pierce, so no teams will overpay.  More teams will be optimistic about having a shot at being a contender if they make the right deals.  A larger marketplace means more competition and the price goes up.  

Loose, +1....all good points...however, we'll have to agree to disagree....

my concerns about "the summer" are twofold 1. it sounds like post-draft rather than predraft....

and ...2.the immediacy of a trade deadline, esp. in a shortened season, for teams who think they are contenders or could be with a missing piece would drive up value. The reported interest in the Captain by many teams, as reported earlier, I think,support this.

I agree with your point that teams have more flexibility in the summer, which in theory could provide more suitors, but think that the immediacy of the situation right now trumps that flexibility.

That, coupled with completing these trades pre=draft so we can be big players in this stacked draft by having as many as 4 or 5 picks, speak to doing those trade(s) now, or at the very latest, pre-draft.

The other benefit that inures to doing it now is that our draft pick will be substantially better without Pierce/Rondo.

[Celtics18]

1. Their value goes down in the summer, not up, especially Pierce's. Both are valuable to contenders now or will make a team a contender. Pierce less so as years go by. Also, if you are assuming we are not contenders, it's unlikely their stock goes up by playing on a losing team.

I'm really going to disagree with this.  It's easier to trade for a big contract in the summer because it is easier to manipulate cap space.  More teams will be able to trade for them.  There's no team that is desperate to add Rondo or Pierce, so no teams will overpay.  More teams will be optimistic about having a shot at being a contender if they make the right deals.  A larger marketplace means more competition and the price goes up.  

Loose, +1....all good points...however, we'll have to agree to disagree....

my concerns about "the summer" are twofold 1. it sounds like post-draft rather than predraft....

and ...2.the immediacy of a trade deadline, esp. in a shortened season, for teams who think they are contenders or could be with a missing piece would drive up value. The reported interest in the Captain by many teams, as reported earlier, I think,support this.

I agree with your point that teams have more flexibility in the summer, which in theory could provide more suitors, but think that the immediacy of the situation right now trumps that flexibility.

That, coupled with completing these trades pre=draft so we can be big players in this stacked draft by having as many as 4 or 5 picks, speak to doing those trade(s) now, or at the very latest, pre-draft.

The other benefit that inures to doing it now is that our draft pick will be substantially better without Pierce/Rondo.

I'm not sure I understand why there would be such a sense of "immediacy."  It's not like you are proposing making a trade that makes us more of a contender than we already are this year.

[LooseCannon]

and ...2.the immediacy of a trade deadline, esp. in a shortened season, for teams who think they are contenders or could be with a missing piece would drive up value. The reported interest in the Captain by many teams, as reported earlier, I think,support this.

I think that any sense of immediacy will have more to do with teams wanting to get something for a player who will be a free agent that they don't plan on or expect to re-sign than contenders and pseudo-contenders looking to add a missing piece.  Bass and Pietrus, with their smaller contracts, are more doable for teams looking to add a piece.

I think that trading Pierce mid-season nets you something along the lines of what Washington got for Antawn Jamison, while waiting until the off-season gets you something more along the lines of what Boston coughed up for Ray Allen.

Rondo's not a piece you add to become a contender.  He's a player you acquire because you want to build a contender around him or someone you give up in a package to acquire a better player who will become a free agent.  You probably have to make a lot of changes to your playbook to accommodate Rondo's unique skill profile, and you generally don't do that mid-season if you are a contender.  Rondo's also the kind of player who will be undervalued in trades because volume scoring is not his primary skill.

Look through a list of past transactions and look at what kind of value teams have gotten near the deadline.

[csfansince60s]

1. Their value goes down in the summer, not up, especially Pierce's. Both are valuable to contenders now or will make a team a contender. Pierce less so as years go by. Also, if you are assuming we are not contenders, it's unlikely their stock goes up by playing on a losing team.

I'm really going to disagree with this.  It's easier to trade for a big contract in the summer because it is easier to manipulate cap space.  More teams will be able to trade for them.  There's no team that is desperate to add Rondo or Pierce, so no teams will overpay.  More teams will be optimistic about having a shot at being a contender if they make the right deals.  A larger marketplace means more competition and the price goes up.  

Loose, +1....all good points...however, we'll have to agree to disagree....

my concerns about "the summer" are twofold 1. it sounds like post-draft rather than predraft....

and ...2.the immediacy of a trade deadline, esp. in a shortened season, for teams who think they are contenders or could be with a missing piece would drive up value. The reported interest in the Captain by many teams, as reported earlier, I think,support this.

I agree with your point that teams have more flexibility in the summer, which in theory could provide more suitors, but think that the immediacy of the situation right now trumps that flexibility.

That, coupled with completing these trades pre=draft so we can be big players in this stacked draft by having as many as 4 or 5 picks, speak to doing those trade(s) now, or at the very latest, pre-draft.

The other benefit that inures to doing it now is that our draft pick will be substantially better without Pierce/Rondo.

I'm not sure I understand why there would be such a sense of "immediacy."  It's not like you are proposing making a trade that makes us more of a contender than we already are this year.

The immediacy I was speaking to was regarding the contenders or would be contenders who would view Pierce especially, and Rondo to a lesser extent, as that missing piece before the trade dealine.

The immediacy I think that the Cs should feel is that if they are not legit contenders for the title (which the topic of this thread uses as a premise), they should be tryng to acquire as many picks in this loaded draft as they can, which means acting before the draft.

[csfansince60s]

and ...2.the immediacy of a trade deadline, esp. in a shortened season, for teams who think they are contenders or could be with a missing piece would drive up value. The reported interest in the Captain by many teams, as reported earlier, I think,support this.

I think that any sense of immediacy will have more to do with teams wanting to get something for a player who will be a free agent that they don't plan on or expect to re-sign than contenders and pseudo-contenders looking to add a missing piece.  Bass and Pietrus, with their smaller contracts, are more doable for teams looking to add a piece.

I think that trading Pierce mid-season nets you something along the lines of what Washington got for Antawn Jamison, while waiting until the off-season gets you something more along the lines of what Boston coughed up for Ray Allen.

Rondo's not a piece you add to become a contender.  He's a player you acquire because you want to build a contender around him or someone you give up in a package to acquire a better player who will become a free agent.  You probably have to make a lot of changes to your playbook to accommodate Rondo's unique skill profile, and you generally don't do that mid-season if you are a contender.  Rondo's also the kind of player who will be undervalued in trades because volume scoring is not his primary skill.

Look through a list of past transactions and look at what kind of value teams have gotten near the deadline.

Denver did pretty good getting value for Melo.

Also, Pierce/Rondo, together or separately would catapult certain teams who have either young assets and/or multiple picks in this draft to whole new levels this year. I am thinking Lakers, Jazz and even the Bulls and Clips .

[Celts Fan 92]

Man you put a lot of thought into these trades but uh

then why post?  you're just being a troll.

Man yall are so sensitive on this site lls I wasnt trolling just havin a lil fun

[LooseCannon]

Denver did pretty good getting value for Melo.

The Knicks are idiots.

[PosImpos]

Man you put a lot of thought into these trades but uh

then why post?  you're just being a troll.

Man yall are so sensitive on this site lls I wasnt trolling just havin a lil fun

you can have fun . . . just post in a way that actually adds to the discussion instead of distracting from it / derailing it.

also, around here one of the big things is respecting other posters, and replying to a thread just to say that you didn't bother reading the original post is pretty disrespectful.