Rondo has to go, sorry...

[CelticG1]

First post on the forums just wanted to jump into the Rondo discussion.

People have differing opinions on Bill Simmons but his thought on Rondo definitely summed up how some of us were feeling watching the game against LA last night.

"Rondo is averaging a 14-10-5, shooting 50 percent from the field and still giving us those one-of-a-kind Rondo highlights.

Am I slowly coming to the realization that I've been in deep denial about the Rondo era? Yeah, a little bit. Any smart team (like the Lakers last night) plays six feet off Rondo in tight games, daring him to shoot, paralyzing Boston's offense and leading to the dreaded "Clogged Toilet" play (Pierce ending up with the ball 25 feet from the hoop with seven seconds left trying to create something). It's almost like playing with a handicap. Screw that, it IS like playing with a handicap. It's also curious that the Celtics came alive defensively when Rondo missed eight games, mostly thanks to Avery Bradley, who flashed Tony Allen/Bruce Bowen-type potential as a perimeter defender (and that's not hyperbole).

  Bradley looked great vs Jameer Nelson. Has he looked like that against anyone else? And do you really give Bradley more credit for the defense than Garnett? If the difference was Bradley, do you think our defense has been getting worse since Rondo's playing again?

At the very least it says that Rondo isn't as important on defense as people seem to think. Basically bradleys first time seeing some minutes and he has no problem playing good d

  Yes, John Wall is still in a corner somewhere, shuddering at the way Bradley shut him down.

I was more focused on the offensive side.  Watching the offense bog down as LA backed off Rondo is tough, it really seems like the Celtics are a man down offensively.   Can't imagine too many teams would employ that same strategy in defending Rose, Paul, Nash, Dwill and other "elite" point guards...

  The offense is clearly better when Rondo plays.

Wouldn't want to use last night's crunch time and OT failures as an example of that.  Or how about tonight's game against the dreadful Raptors - Rondo played more minutes than any other Celtic 2-10 from the floor, 5 TO's, and the Celtics scored a horrific 74 points. 

But he shot 1-2 from 10-15 feet so hes a good mid range shooter, 50%!!!!!!!

[bostonman1]

When discussing Rondo and his status it helps to go back to before last season started.  Rondo had raised the level of expectations for his play and obviously felt he is an elite PG.  Hard to say he is backing up those words judging by his lack of improvement in key areas.

“I feel I’m the best at what I do, and that’s how I play it,” Rondo told the Boston Herald. “People know who I am, but that’s not why I play. I play to be the best.

“I’m the best, hands down. There’s no speculation. Not top three or top five, I’m the best.”


Doc Rivers isn’t as worried about motivation. “He’ll always have a chip,’’ Rivers said. “People still want to see him make shots. He didn’t make the Olympic team this year. He probably wants to do that. He’s so young, Rondo has a lot of things to prove.’’

Rondo agrees. “This team, it’s impossible to get comfortable,’’ Rondo said. “You’ve got plenty of All-Stars on the team, four future Hall of Famers. I made one All-Star appearance. I haven’t done anything. Maybe if I was the only guy on the Celtics that made the All-Star team I could maybe relax a little bit, but on this team, it’s impossible.’’

“I’m not looking to be the best one year or to have people think you’re the best one year,’’ Rondo continued. “You’ve got to prove it every night. Every night somebody’s going to be gunning for that spot.’’

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Conspiracy Keanu thinks Rondo is playing himself out of Boston. He thinks he doesn't wanna play here any more, hence the lack of aggressiveness which he's best known for. When he was associated to the CP3 trade, Keanu thinks that Rondo thinks the Celtics doesn't fully trust him and now just wants out, letting his game, or lack thereof is speaking for it.

And Conspiracy Keanu thinks as soon as he gets traded, he returns to his near all star level.

[CelticG1]

Conspiracy Keanu thinks Rondo is playing himself out of Boston. He thinks he doesn't wanna play here any more, hence the lack of aggressiveness which he's best known for. When he was associated to the CP3 trade, Keanu thinks that Rondo thinks the Celtics doesn't fully trust him and now just wants out, letting his game, or lack thereof is speaking for it.

And Conspiracy Keanu thinks as soon as he gets traded, he returns to his near all star level.

Honestly tonight it felt like he was playing like a guy who wants to get traded.

Id love for.him to throw.a gem on sunday, I just don't know if he is capable against the bulls/Rose (please no one reference roses rookie year anyone)

[Celtics4ever]

Actually I think you are wrong. Doc has mentioned that makes thos shots in practice just needs to get used to the game speed and get the confidence up.

Until he does it in a game it is a mirage.  We have all heard about the practice shots but practice shots don't count in a real game.  So who is wrong now, it ain't me because this isn't the PRACTICE LEAGUE.   He is shooting .63 from the line and .42 from the field and .09 from the three point line.  We all know they have artificially boosted his percentage with layups and cuts because he was so bad a shooter they had to scheme it.  He can't drive like Rondo or make his own shot.  Think about that.  How many times have you seen Avery make his own shot.   Most of the time it is off another's pass.

No one gives a rat #%$^ about practice or what he does there.  Until he does it a game it's make believe.  Sooner or later guys who are only good at practice don't play because they can't in games.  You think they are going to say that he stinks in practice too?  That would help his trade value a lot so of course they are going to say he is going to shoot well in practice.  Watch the games and see PP and KG see him open and pass the ball away from him.  That ought to speak volumes to you.

He is a great player in practice, ****,  are you Ed Wood's son?

[CelticG1]

Actually I think you are wrong. Doc has mentioned that makes thos shots in practice just needs to get used to the game speed and get the confidence up.

Until he does it in a game it is a mirage.  We have all heard about the practice shots but practice shots don't count in a real game.  So who is wrong now, it ain't me because this isn't the PRACTICE LEAGUE.   He is shooting .63 from the line and .42 from the field and .09 from the three point line.  We all know they have artificially boosted his percentage with layups and cuts because he was so bad a shooter they had to scheme it.  He can't drive like Rondo or make his own shot.  Think about that.  How many times have you seen Avery make his own shot.   Most of the time it is off another's pass.

No one gives a rat #%$^ about practice or what he does there.  Until he does it a game it's make believe.  Sooner or later guys who are only good at practice don't play because they can't in games.  You think they are going to say that he stinks in practice too?  That would help his trade value a lot so of course they are going to say he is going to shoot well in practice.  Watch the games and see PP and KG see him open and pass the ball away from him.  That ought to speak volumes to you.

He is a great player in practice, ****,  are you Ed Wood's son?

Theres areason why he is shooting so much even though he is missing. Its by design. Thats why he doesnt get yanked from a game when he misses. It hasn't shown up yet but Doc has a ton more confidence in ABs jumper than Rondos. Plus Bradley was a great mid range shooter in college. hes only played like 25 games id give it some more time.


But yeah if we are 6 years in and we are still talking about "confidence" issues like people are with Rondo, than we will know that he is just a flat out bad shooter

[LB3533]

For Rondo's energy to make an impact he needs other guys to play well around him.

If our Big 3 are playing like doo doo, the opposing defenses can totally take Rondo out of the equation.

Even if for some reason, Rondo plays like Allen Iverson, it will still not be enough because 1 guy can't win it all by himself. It is a team game.

[Roy H.]

To reiterate, I don't want to see Rondo go unless we're getting a star impact player back.

At the same time, this is a pretty sobering statistic:  our record with Rondo playing is 8-10, and without him it's 6-2.  With that in mind, it's easy to see where the fan base's angst is coming from, even if that's not a completely fair way of looking at things.

[jambr380]

Wow, I went through a few pages of this thread, but couldn't take it anymore. Everyone calling for Rondo's head (not those that are being rational about his current situation) should be ashamed of themselves. Rondo has been an excellent player for us for several years now and you guys are all freaking out. How about we see if he breaks out of his 'slump'.

...or at least be more reasonable and appreciate what he has done for this team. Not everyone has to be a Rondo fan, but chill out people.

I really hate the premise of this thread...

[PosImpos]

To reiterate, I don't want to see Rondo go unless we're getting a star impact player back.

At the same time, this is a pretty sobering statistic:  our record with Rondo playing is 8-10, and without him it's 6-2.  With that in mind, it's easy to see where the fan base's angst is coming from, even if that's not a completely fair way of looking at things.

Yeah.  Just looking at the record is obviously not a rigorous or comprehensive way of determining one player's impact, but I think beyond that we can just look at how the team plays with him on the floor versus with him off the floor, and there seems to be an obvious difference in pace, energy, ball movement, etc.  

Rondo's late game disappearances are becoming more and more troubling the closer we get to the reality of him being "the guy" after this season.

In any case, with the way things have gone this season, it's gotten to the point where it doesn't even really make sense to trade Rondo just because his trade value is probably so low.  I think there's a large contingent of people outside Boston who view Rondo -- fairly or unfairly -- as a role player who benefits a great deal from his Hall of Fame teammates.  Some of those people, I think, are NBA GMs.

[Onslaught]

To reiterate, I don't want to see Rondo go unless we're getting a star impact player back.

At the same time, this is a pretty sobering statistic:  our record with Rondo playing is 8-10, and without him it's 6-2.  With that in mind, it's easy to see where the fan base's angst is coming from, even if that's not a completely fair way of looking at things.

"In any case, with the way things have gone this season, it's gotten to the point where it doesn't even really make sense to trade Rondo just because his trade value is probably so low.  I think there's a large contingent of people outside Boston who view Rondo -- fairly or unfairly -- as a role player who benefits a great deal from his Hall of Fame teammates.  Some of those people, I think, are NBA GMs."

We have a winner! I love the kid and would hate to see him go. But I also don't think we can get anything for him right now. Unless it's an improvement then I see no reason to do it. And I don't think we can get an improvement right now with the way he's playing.

[hoarybat]

To reiterate, I don't want to see Rondo go unless we're getting a star impact player back.

At the same time, this is a pretty sobering statistic:  our record with Rondo playing is 8-10, and without him it's 6-2.  With that in mind, it's easy to see where the fan base's angst is coming from, even if that's not a completely fair way of looking at things.

Not only sobering but a factual trend.  Sadly I'm mistaken, nobody would give us a first rounder or impact player for Rondo.  It certainly wouldn't help our old outside jump shooting team.  Ray Allen is a nice guy but he's lost it too.  We live by his threes and died by them with the Lakers when we were up 3-2 going there in our last championship series.  Ray Allen was a main factor in losing that series after he hit a few in Boston to gain the 3-2 lead we were hanging in there in a close game 6 and ray ray threw up numerous outside bricks and missed numerous 3 pointers most of which were rebounded by the Lakers and they won the game.  The name of the game is not constantly taking low percentage 3 pointers. Take it to the hoop! If you miss you may get fouled. Agreed it is not all Rondo's fault however he is one of the main problems on this team.  They're better off blowing it up as someone else said in this thread and build for the future.  This is a .500-.550 team at best which has only a shot at the first round of the playoffs and it will end there.  The C's played better with the bench when injuries occurred to starters.  The young are hungry. Look at Lin's first 4 games and Wow last night! Lin's not afraid to shoot and appears to have confidence and determination that Rondo has almost always lacked.  Lin might be a flash in the pan but after seeing his timing and quick decisions I'd bet he will be a more consistent player than Rondo. Rondo is not a second half/4th quarter player. He frequently implodes.  Rondo has the physical attributes but not the mental quick decision attributes for success as others have mentioned here.  He holds the ball too long.  Oh there's an occasional bounce pass inside to his target for 2 but unfortunately for Rondo 1/2 of the inside bounce passes are made and 1/2 are turnovers.  As soon as he has 3 good games just before the trade deadline, dump him please and and let's see Moore and the rest of the bench play.  If they perform as they did when Rondo and others were out it would be exciting to see them play in the first round of the playoffs should they get there.  Also their stock would rise allowing the C's to possibly do something in the off season.

[hoarybat]

Wow, I went through a few pages of this thread, but couldn't take it anymore. Everyone calling for Rondo's head (not those that are being rational about his current situation) should be ashamed of themselves. Rondo has been an excellent player for us for several years now and you guys are all freaking out. How about we see if he breaks out of his 'slump'.

...or at least be more reasonable and appreciate what he has done for this team. Not everyone has to be a Rondo fan, but chill out people.

I really hate the premise of this thread...

His slump? This is something new?  He's had 50+ mini "slumps" since he's been here. The top 10 PG's haven't had 50+ mini slumps.  We saw so much potential promise in him his first 2 years. He's been downhill ever since with his aging team mates just standing around and forcing shots with guys in their face.  Without ball movement and swing you have nothing.  The Celts somehow hold teams down in points but they simply can't score easy baskets.  They're fatigued by the 4th quarter.  When they came back from 27 points down recently, it was their fresh legged bench that was instrumental in that comeback.  The movement with and without the ball by the bench players created offensive opportunities. Did you see CP3's shot last night down low with a few seconds left leading to a win?  Do you think Rondo would attempt that shot or even make it? CP3 then moved in on defense right after that play to close the door and game.  Rondo simply is incapable of doing this consistently as his peers do repeatedly. Let's look at Nowitzki or Bryant regardless of position. They will often slump early in a game making 2 of 10 from the field only to make 8 of their next 10 shots later in the game to help win it.  Rondo can't do this.  When he shoots and misses 3 or 4 in a row he goes into hibernation and we see him next time hoping for layups again. This is frequently the rule rather than the exception: Halftime, Raptors 41-34: Celtics end the half on a 6-2 run but they are playing some ugly basketball, especially Rajon Rondo, who has 0 points, 2 assists, 5 turnovers and a minus-11 rating.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Right, trade Rondo for derrick fisher..so then we can be totally old..! We'll have NONE to run at all...maybe we can score and then just hold onto the ball till the game is over..! How about PLAY guys that can RUN with him....like when we were winning...yes, the youth that we picked up in the draft.....did you think they were just over-zealous fans wearing real uniforms..? ( i think doc does, once again) Trade rondo you say..while no one rebounds, no one boxes out....no one goes for layups, thier shots aren't going in..you can look past ALL that, and say..just trade him......VS the lakers...PP disappeared, ray missed too many, KG was STUCK at center which he not only HATES, but it takes him out of his offense, but i know you knew that..and all you can do is blame rondo...did you ever try to pass to guys that don't MOVE...tired guys don't run....ask the coach why he doesn't want to sub anyone..doc is a creature of habit...no matter what he proved or leaned, ho only wants pp, kg, ray, rondo and now oniel to "just win this game" so he doesn't have to figure it out....you think he could tell the ref about bynum's 10 second paint visits......or ask guys to box out...or put steamer on bynum.....the strongest center we have......

[LB3533]

We can't trade Rondo, we won't get good value for him. His value already took a big hit with the CP3 fiasco.