Author Topic: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now  (Read 25662 times)

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Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #90 on: February 02, 2012, 02:53:02 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Cory Joseph, Spurs - 15 games, 8.7 minutes a game.
Jimmy Butler, Bulls - 13 games, 6.4 minutes a game.
Reggie Jackson, OKC - 15 games, 11.5 minutes a game.
JJJ, Celtics - 10 games, 3.8 minutes a game.

It seems to be that if teams which have been playing much better basketball than the Celtics are able to play their rookies, a team that's played as poorly as Boston has should be able to find a few more minutes for JJJ.

Mike

Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #91 on: February 02, 2012, 03:02:10 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Would playing more in garbage time satisfy you? That is what Cory Joseph has been doing. Much the same for Butler, though with Deng's injury he might be getting a shot for a 8 - 10 mpg role for a while.

Reggie Jackson is the one guy who seems to be playing a consistent role.

JJJ has two primary PFs who have played the best of any big men on the team ahead of him. Its awfully tough to get in the game when you have two 30ish MPG players at your position.

Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #92 on: February 02, 2012, 03:05:55 PM »

Offline JSD

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I'm with the OP, JJ played like a combination of a young Al Jefferson and Jesus. Mashon who?

Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #93 on: February 02, 2012, 03:25:25 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Would playing more in garbage time satisfy you? That is what Cory Joseph has been doing. Much the same for Butler, though with Deng's injury he might be getting a shot for a 8 - 10 mpg role for a while.

Reggie Jackson is the one guy who seems to be playing a consistent role.

JJJ has two primary PFs who have played the best of any big men on the team ahead of him. Its awfully tough to get in the game when you have two 30ish MPG players at your position.

Also, all three of those guys got minutes after significant injuries.  Reggie Jackson basically took Eric Maynor's role, Joseph has gotten more time with Ginobili going down, and Butler has seen a bit of a bump with Rose and Deng having injuries.

If KG and/or Bass goes down, JJ will see a bit of an increase in minutes.


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Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #94 on: February 02, 2012, 03:42:53 PM »

Offline TA9

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Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #95 on: February 02, 2012, 03:43:57 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Would playing more in garbage time satisfy you? That is what Cory Joseph has been doing. Much the same for Butler, though with Deng's injury he might be getting a shot for a 8 - 10 mpg role for a while.

Reggie Jackson is the one guy who seems to be playing a consistent role.

JJJ has two primary PFs who have played the best of any big men on the team ahead of him. Its awfully tough to get in the game when you have two 30ish MPG players at your position.

Also, all three of those guys got minutes after significant injuries.  Reggie Jackson basically took Eric Maynor's role, Joseph has gotten more time with Ginobili going down, and Butler has seen a bit of a bump with Rose and Deng having injuries.

If KG and/or Bass goes down, JJ will see a bit of an increase in minutes.
Forgot about Maynor's injury, so yeah all three have played in blowouts and injury situations.

Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #96 on: February 02, 2012, 04:13:48 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Cory Joseph, Spurs - 15 games, 8.7 minutes a game.
Jimmy Butler, Bulls - 13 games, 6.4 minutes a game.
Reggie Jackson, OKC - 15 games, 11.5 minutes a game.
JJJ, Celtics - 10 games, 3.8 minutes a game.

It seems to be that if teams which have been playing much better basketball than the Celtics are able to play their rookies, a team that's played as poorly as Boston has should be able to find a few more minutes for JJJ.

Mike
You are cherry picking stats to try to prove a point instead of looking at stats and trying to see what is going on. This makes  your position seem to lack credibility.

Moore is averaging 11.2 MPG over 17 games. Only Jackson barely has more MPG, but the difference is only .3.

Stiemsma is averaging 8.6 MPG over 17 games, which would put him right in the middle of that list - though he too has played more games.

The Celtics have played less games than the Bulls and San Antonio (the same as OKC) which means our guys have less DNP-CDs than those other guys.

So what is your point? Why are you so worried about JJJ's minutes when our young guys seem to be getting a fair shot overall? You can't play everyone regularly!

Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #97 on: February 02, 2012, 05:50:16 PM »

Offline cman88

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johnson is just a victim of the rotation...he has KG/Bass/Wilcox in front of him.

if Rondo/Dooling werent injured I doubt Avery/Moore would get the PT they are getting as well..

its just the nature of the game. its nice to know that we have guys 1-15 who can contribute when called upon however. ive been impressed with our bench performance as of late

Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #98 on: February 02, 2012, 05:53:20 PM »

Online Celtics4ever

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Quote
jajuan johnson can bench press the weight of shaq.

Doesn't matter he needs some more bulk (mass) for positional defense down low.  A guy can be wiry and strong and get pushed around by a heavier player happens all the time in football at the line.

Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #99 on: February 02, 2012, 06:17:41 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Cory Joseph, Spurs - 15 games, 8.7 minutes a game.
Jimmy Butler, Bulls - 13 games, 6.4 minutes a game.
Reggie Jackson, OKC - 15 games, 11.5 minutes a game.
JJJ, Celtics - 10 games, 3.8 minutes a game.

It seems to be that if teams which have been playing much better basketball than the Celtics are able to play their rookies, a team that's played as poorly as Boston has should be able to find a few more minutes for JJJ.

Mike

This is not the Developmental Celtics.  Doc plays who he thinks will give us the best chance to win on a given night.  I'd love to see more JJ, but it's not about testing Danny's draft choices; It's about trying to win ball games.

The above teams aren't playing their rookies for development purposes.  They are being played because they are needed.  
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 06:39:44 PM by Celtics18 »
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PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #100 on: February 02, 2012, 06:29:54 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Cory Joseph, Spurs - 15 games, 8.7 minutes a game.
Jimmy Butler, Bulls - 13 games, 6.4 minutes a game.
Reggie Jackson, OKC - 15 games, 11.5 minutes a game.
JJJ, Celtics - 10 games, 3.8 minutes a game.

It seems to be that if teams which have been playing much better basketball than the Celtics are able to play their rookies, a team that's played as poorly as Boston has should be able to find a few more minutes for JJJ.

Mike

This is not the Developmental Celtics.  Doc plays who he thinks will give us the best chance to win on a given night.  I'd love to see more JJ, but it's not about testing Danny's draft choices; It's about trying to win ball games.

The above teams aren't playing their rookies for development purposes.  They are being played because the are needed. 
I like that explanation. TP.

Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #101 on: February 02, 2012, 06:35:10 PM »

Offline MBunge

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You are cherry picking stats to try to prove a point instead of looking at stats and trying to see what is going on. This makes  your position seem to lack credibility.

What damages credibility is to avoid the point.

Even when the Celtics, especially KG, were playing so bad that people were talking about blowing it up, JJJ still couldn't get on the court.  Even when Doc got so desperate he'd throw a lineup out there that had Bass playing center, JJJ still couldn't get on the court.  That's the point.  Not that Doc isn't playing JJJ 30 minutes a game but that it's clear Doc won't play him AT ALL unless it's serious garbage time.  Much the same way Doc was not going to play Moore AT ALL until first Avery's horrible play and then Dooling's injury forced him to change.

Should JJJ be starting over KG or playing over Bass?  Of course not.  But I don't think it would hurt anything if our head coach were at least thinking about trying to get JJJ a few minures when possible, instead of just sticking him on the bench and forgeting about him until the Celtics are either ahead or behind by 20 points in the 4th quarter.

Mike

Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #102 on: February 02, 2012, 06:54:04 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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You are cherry picking stats to try to prove a point instead of looking at stats and trying to see what is going on. This makes  your position seem to lack credibility.

What damages credibility is to avoid the point.

Even when the Celtics, especially KG, were playing so bad that people were talking about blowing it up, JJJ still couldn't get on the court.  Even when Doc got so desperate he'd throw a lineup out there that had Bass playing center, JJJ still couldn't get on the court.  That's the point.  Not that Doc isn't playing JJJ 30 minutes a game but that it's clear Doc won't play him AT ALL unless it's serious garbage time.  Much the same way Doc was not going to play Moore AT ALL until first Avery's horrible play and then Dooling's injury forced him to change.

Should JJJ be starting over KG or playing over Bass?  Of course not.  But I don't think it would hurt anything if our head coach were at least thinking about trying to get JJJ a few minures when possible, instead of just sticking him on the bench and forgeting about him until the Celtics are either ahead or behind by 20 points in the 4th quarter.

Mike
You can't just mention 2 guys other than JJJ. You have to mention all the guys that played that game. There are 96 minutes to go around at the 4 and 5. We have been playing JO, KG, Bass, Wilcox and Stiemsma. Look at how low the MPG are for our big men. I don't see how we need a 6 man big rotation.

It should be obvious that if a vital cog like KG is playing poorly, he still gets minutes to get back into the flow so I have no idea why you keep mentioning him. To think that the team will give up on him in the first 10 games is to be really out of touch with where the team is.

To insist that JJJ get minutes instead of Bass of course would be ridiculous. Wilcox, JO and Stiemsma are better center options than JJJ, and there is no reason really to give JJJ priority over Wilcox. We need Wilcox to learn our system so that we can get the most of him come playoff time. To argue that JJJ should get Stiemsma's minutes would make me wonder what the point is since they are both young guys that are worth developing. Stiemsma is more mature though with a year of d-league experience.

Playing poorly is not a good reason to play JJJ. It is the opposite. Who cares if some fans say 'blow it up'. Did Doc say 'blow it up'? If we are struggling, your answer is to increase our struggle by playing JJJ?

When JJJ starts getting minutes, he will likely be eased into it like Bradley and Moore, with short minutes in the first half early on while watching the second half.

I have no problem with you feeling that JJJ should get more minutes. I can respect that opinion. But I am thoroughly unimpressed with argument claiming that not playing him is unjustified or a bad idea. Even if JJJ tears it up later in the season, it seems quite a stretch to me to be outraged over how minutes have been doled out this year.

I like making developing players work for minutes by forcing them to study up and develop themselves. It will be hard enough adjusting to the speed of the NBA even if they have mastered the playbook and the defensive rotations.

Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #103 on: February 02, 2012, 08:50:56 PM »

Offline RajonRondo9Dime

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I have no way to prove this theory.. But I believe it in, so I'll share it anyways.

If we were as bad and if our roster was as thin as a team like New Jersey, I'm sure we could get Brooks-like production from E`twaun Moore. Maybe if JJ was on the Nets, he'd be doing very well also.

We are a playoff team. We have ONE goal. That's to win a championship. Despite how tough that may be, that's the goal. We have a lot of veterans. We have a lot of veterans who are better players than JJ. Looking at Marshawn Brooks' production for the Nets and then saying "Dang, we should have kept him instead of JJ" is not fair to Danny or JJ for that matter. MUCH different roles for each because of where their respective teams.

Re: We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now
« Reply #104 on: February 02, 2012, 10:08:57 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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You are cherry picking stats to try to prove a point instead of looking at stats and trying to see what is going on. This makes  your position seem to lack credibility.

What damages credibility is to avoid the point.

Even when the Celtics, especially KG, were playing so bad that people were talking about blowing it up, JJJ still couldn't get on the court.  Even when Doc got so desperate he'd throw a lineup out there that had Bass playing center, JJJ still couldn't get on the court.  That's the point.  Not that Doc isn't playing JJJ 30 minutes a game but that it's clear Doc won't play him AT ALL unless it's serious garbage time.  Much the same way Doc was not going to play Moore AT ALL until first Avery's horrible play and then Dooling's injury forced him to change.

Should JJJ be starting over KG or playing over Bass?  Of course not.  But I don't think it would hurt anything if our head coach were at least thinking about trying to get JJJ a few minures when possible, instead of just sticking him on the bench and forgeting about him until the Celtics are either ahead or behind by 20 points in the 4th quarter.

Mike

Question: Who are the only two Celtics on the 2011-2012 roster to have played in all 21 of the team's games?

Hint:  Kevin Garnett and Brandon Bass.

This may have something to do with why it's been hard for our third string power forward to get playing time.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson