We can kill the Mashon Brooks talks now

[guava_wrench]

There is a logic some use where they assume that if Bradley were given the same minutes last year that he is getting this year, he would have a similar developmental trajectory. You can't assume that. It might have just meant more losses, more embarrassment, and a discouraged player.

Some people are talking like we should have sat KG and played JJJ instead, which is an argument that contradicts itself. KG needed to play off the rust. He needed the minutes and KG is a proven commodity. Taking minutes away from ANY player, even a veteran, affects their game-readiness.

JO, KG, Bass, and Wilcox all need to build up their chemistry with one another, which requires time on the court together. When the proven NBA guys are in sync, then they can start worrying about teaching a young guy in-game. Sadly, training camp took place on the courts during the regular season. This lead to a really ugly start of the season for us.

[slamtheking]

Rather, it says that Moore has Avery Bradley in front of him, while JJ is stuck behind KG, Bass, and Wilcox.  If KG and Bass get hurt like Rondo and Dooling did, I'm sure JJ will see time.

But earlier this season, Wilcox was hurt and KG was playing like crap and JJJ still couldn't get off the bench.  Yes, if both Wilcox and Bass went down to injuries Doc might start playing JJJ.  The question is, shouldn't Doc be trying to get JJJ some minutes instead of waiting until it's an emergency situation?

Mike

and when has Doc ever done that with a rookie or a young player when Doc had a veteran on the bench?  Never. 

Doc plays older/veteran players over youth -- every time.  It's just how he is.  No matter what everyone else thinks he should do regarding young players, he's going to do what he wants. 

Take the current situation.  If Rondo or Dooling were healthy, Moore wouldn't see the floor--it'd just be Bradley.  If both Rondo and Dooling were healthy, we wouldn't see Moore or Bradley.  The situation is no different with JJJ.  Unless it's garbage time, he won't sniff the court unless at least 2 of KG, Bass and Wilcox are out of commission.  Doubt this?  wait until Rondo and Dooling come back and see what happens to Bradley and Moore's minutes.  Bradley's proven he can be disruptive on D so he might get in for situational plays but that's about it.

[nickagneta]

This whole argument is quite useless. JJJ is going to get a ton of playing time....next year when KG and Bass and Wilcox are gone and the rebuilding has started.

For now, he sits behind KG, Bass, and Wilcox and he does it for one simple reason, this team has a much better chance of winning games if those three guys are playing than if JJJ is playing.

It really is that simple.

[Fafnir]

An old quote sums up my feelings about Doc not playing young players. He's never had a problem playing young guys when his roster or that player's talent has warranted it.

As for Doc with rookies, I think Mike Miller, Rajon Rondo, Leon Powe, Glen Davis, Pat Burke, Tony Allen, Al Jefferson, and Delonte West would all be shocked to find out they didn't play as rookies.

[guava_wrench]

It seems some have the 'sink or swim' philosophy of throwing someone in the water, while Doc likes to teach them to swim first and let them try a few laps in the shallow end before going to the deep end.

[lightspeed5]

jajuan johnson can bench press the weight of shaq.

[slamtheking]

An old quote sums up my feelings about Doc not playing young players. He's never had a problem playing young guys when his roster or that player's talent has warranted it.

As for Doc with rookies, I think Mike Miller, Rajon Rondo, Leon Powe, Glen Davis, Pat Burke, Tony Allen, Al Jefferson, and Delonte West would all be shocked to find out they didn't play as rookies.

and my favorite rebuttal to that is tell me which veterans (or players with more time in the league) were ahead of those players on the depth chart--especially for those players on the Celtics.  Then, if you actually come up with anyone, subtract the ones that were out injured when those younger players got playing time. 

you'll find you're left with no one ahead of those players that Doc could give minutes to -- with one exception, Sebastian Telfair ending up behind Rondo on the depth chart by the end of that season because Telfair played so poorly.  And in that case, Telfair was still only a 2nd year player--not exactly a vet.

[guava_wrench]

An old quote sums up my feelings about Doc not playing young players. He's never had a problem playing young guys when his roster or that player's talent has warranted it.

As for Doc with rookies, I think Mike Miller, Rajon Rondo, Leon Powe, Glen Davis, Pat Burke, Tony Allen, Al Jefferson, and Delonte West would all be shocked to find out they didn't play as rookies.

and my favorite rebuttal to that is tell me which veterans (or players with more time in the league) were ahead of those players on the depth chart--especially for those players on the Celtics.  Then, if you actually come up with anyone, subtract the ones that were out injured when those younger players got playing time. 

you'll find you're left with no one ahead of those players that Doc could give minutes to -- with one exception, Sebastian Telfair ending up behind Rondo on the depth chart by the end of that season because Telfair played so poorly.  And in that case, Telfair was still only a 2nd year player--not exactly a vet.

You can come up with all the justifications you want, but the reality remains that guys who should have played played.

[guava_wrench]

What is ironic about a lot of JJJ talk is that JJJ didn't play when everyone was hurt because Doc played a different rookie - Stiemsma.

[Interceptor]

That's not ironic, and JJJ isn't a Center.

[Fafnir]

An old quote sums up my feelings about Doc not playing young players. He's never had a problem playing young guys when his roster or that player's talent has warranted it.

As for Doc with rookies, I think Mike Miller, Rajon Rondo, Leon Powe, Glen Davis, Pat Burke, Tony Allen, Al Jefferson, and Delonte West would all be shocked to find out they didn't play as rookies.

and my favorite rebuttal to that is tell me which veterans (or players with more time in the league) were ahead of those players on the depth chart--especially for those players on the Celtics.  Then, if you actually come up with anyone, subtract the ones that were out injured when those younger players got playing time.  

you'll find you're left with no one ahead of those players that Doc could give minutes to -- with one exception, Sebastian Telfair ending up behind Rondo on the depth chart by the end of that season because Telfair played so poorly.  And in that case, Telfair was still only a 2nd year player--not exactly a vet.

Ricky Davis, Gary Payton, Marcus Banks, Paul Pierce, and Jiri Welsch in the case of Delonte/Tony

Antoine Walker, Mark Blount, and Kendrick Perkins for Big Al (Walter was there though cooked at that point)

Ricky Davis, Paul Pierce, Raef, and Wally ahead of Gomes

Big Al, Gomes, Telfair, West, Tony, and Scal ahead of Rondo, Green, and Powe

 KG, Powe, Pollard, Posey, Perkins, and PJ ahead of BBd.

McGrady, Outlaw, Garrity who were ahead of Miller.

Those rookies all ended up outplaying the guys ahead of them or at least earning rotation minutes.

[guava_wrench]

That's not ironic, and JJJ isn't a Center.

Ugh! Than why are people complaining that JJJ didn't get minutes when we are shorthanded up front? Context!

[LooseCannon]

But earlier this season, Wilcox was hurt and KG was playing like crap and JJJ still couldn't get off the bench.  Yes, if both Wilcox and Bass went down to injuries Doc might start playing JJJ.  The question is, shouldn't Doc be trying to get JJJ some minutes instead of waiting until it's an emergency situation?

It was a higher priority to give KG the minutes he needed to play his way into shape.

I really don't think a trickle of minutes here and there is really helpful.  If it were possible, one game playing 15 minutes and two DNPs are better than three games with five-minute stints.

[MBunge]

Big Al, Gomes, Telfair, West, Tony, and Scal ahead of Rondo, Green, and Powe

And if you got back and look, you find that Doc played Telfair over Rondo for the first two-and-a-half months of that season, which makes AT LEAST one month when everybody and their brother could tell Rondo was the better player but Doc still went with Telfair.

Mike

[guava_wrench]

But earlier this season, Wilcox was hurt and KG was playing like crap and JJJ still couldn't get off the bench.  Yes, if both Wilcox and Bass went down to injuries Doc might start playing JJJ.  The question is, shouldn't Doc be trying to get JJJ some minutes instead of waiting until it's an emergency situation?

Doc played Stiemsma, another rookie who is a better match with Bass since Bass would play the 4.

Considering how borderline Stiemsma has been, 2 guys like that would be tough.