Is anyone still upset about the Perk trade?

[ACF]

Yep we can't beat the sorry Cavs. We suck

Fixed it for you.

[tenn_smoothie]

still upset ?

i've never stopped being upset about losing Perk. outside of John Y. Brown's infamous trade that almost drove Red out of Boston, Danny's disaster was the worst decision by a Celtic's GM in the team's history - at least Red stayed around to repair the damage done by Brown.

and to those who do not understand the game and thus continue, ad nauseum, to harp on Perk's stats as evidence that Danny made a smart move, you are missing the point. Ainge robbed last year's team of an excellent shot at another title and has damaged this year's team beyond repair.

so YES - i am still upset about the Perk trade.

[GrandTheftRondo]

Upset? Nah. Too much time has passed.

But I said I'll never forgive Danny for it and I meant it. I'll never forget it.

[kenmaine]

still upset ?

i've never stopped being upset about losing Perk. outside of John Y. Brown's infamous trade that almost drove Red out of Boston, Danny's disaster was the worst decision by a Celtic's GM in the team's history - at least Red stayed around to repair the damage done by Brown.

and to those who do not understand the game and thus continue, ad nauseum, to harp on Perk's stats as evidence that Danny made a smart move, you are missing the point. Ainge robbed last year's team of an excellent shot at another title and has damaged this year's team beyond repair.

so YES - i am still upset about the Perk trade.


Agree 100%, well stated.

[Moranis]

It's irrefutable that he helps out the Cs how much help is surely in contention, and unknowable.

of course it is refutable given the context.  Do Perkins and Robinson help more than Green and Krstic?  No one has any idea in that regard, but it is certainly not irrefutable.

[indeedproceed]

It's irrefutable that he helps out the Cs how much help is surely in contention, and unknowable.

of course it is refutable given the context.  Do Perkins and Robinson help more than Green and Krstic?  No one has any idea in that regard, but it is certainly not irrefutable.

Nobody has any idea whether having a legitimate starting center and keeping the chemistry of the last 4 years (to the trade) together would have been better than Krstic and Green, knowing the way Krstic and Green played?

I just don't even think its debatable

[Fafnir]

It's irrefutable that he helps out the Cs how much help is surely in contention, and unknowable.

of course it is refutable given the context.  Do Perkins and Robinson help more than Green and Krstic?  No one has any idea in that regard, but it is certainly not irrefutable.

Nobody has any idea whether having a legitimate starting center and keeping the chemistry of the last 4 years (to the trade) together would have been better than Krstic and Green, knowing the way Krstic and Green played?

I just don't even think its debatable

Perkins playoffs were bad:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/perkike01.html#playoffs_advanced::none

Worse than Jermaine's, which is scary to say.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealje01.html#playoffs_advanced::none

I guess it depends on how much of a droppoff whatever other backup SG/SF that we'd have had to get instead of Green either from FA or another trade.

[Q_FBE]

still upset ?

i've never stopped being upset about losing Perk. outside of John Y. Brown's infamous trade that almost drove Red out of Boston, Danny's disaster was the worst decision by a Celtic's GM in the team's history - at least Red stayed around to repair the damage done by Brown.

and to those who do not understand the game and thus continue, ad nauseum, to harp on Perk's stats as evidence that Danny made a smart move, you are missing the point. Ainge robbed last year's team of an excellent shot at another title and has damaged this year's team beyond repair.

so YES - i am still upset about the Perk trade.


Agree 100%, well stated.

Y John Brown brings back such horrible memories of Sydney Wicks and Curtis (No wins and losses on the paycheck) Rowe. I think getting Larry Bird the player, Bill Fitch the coach (who proved wise kicking out Wicks and Rowe at Larry Birds very 1st practice), and Harry Mangurian the owner saved Red Auerbach from a premature heart attack.

I am still upset about the Perkins trade only because we got absolutely nothing for it, save a 1st rounder that seems to have less value now than at the time. I guess we have retained Jeff Green's Bird rights. Our rebounding absolutely sucks right now and that will keep us mired in the middle of the pack of the improving EC. Getting Nick Colison for Perkins in that Okie trade would have helped more. Can JJJ even play? We need to find out sooner than later. 

[indeedproceed]

It's irrefutable that he helps out the Cs how much help is surely in contention, and unknowable.

of course it is refutable given the context.  Do Perkins and Robinson help more than Green and Krstic?  No one has any idea in that regard, but it is certainly not irrefutable.

Nobody has any idea whether having a legitimate starting center and keeping the chemistry of the last 4 years (to the trade) together would have been better than Krstic and Green, knowing the way Krstic and Green played?

I just don't even think its debatable

Perkins playoffs were bad:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/perkike01.html#playoffs_advanced::none

Worse than Jermaine's, which is scary to say.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealje01.html#playoffs_advanced::none

I guess it depends on how much of a droppoff whatever other backup SG/SF that we'd have had to get instead of Green either from FA or another trade.

Perkins played 28 minutes per contest in the playoffs, Jermaine played 21, having a defensively oriented center who could give hard fouls, knows the system, and has the trust and respect of the players play 20 minutes+ every game would've been a boon, no matter what. And, his advanced stats weren't much better when he played with Boston in 2010 in the post-season. His dRTG was considerably lower, but OKC's defense isn't nearly what Boston's was in the 2010 postseason.

[kozlodoev]

On a related note, I find it amazing that O'Neal has pretty much given us a Perkins-like performance this season, and people keep piling on him.

[PosImpos]

On a related note, I find it amazing that O'Neal has pretty much given us a Perkins-like performance this season, and people keep piling on him.

Because he hasn't spent years in Celtics green; he didn't grow up before our eyes, so we don't view him with such sentimentality.

Fair to say, though, that the argument from the anti-Perk-trade crowd is not that Perk would be such a huge upgrade over JO, but rather that we'd be much better off with JO and Perk splitting the center minutes rather than the flimsy 3-4 man platoon we've got now.

[LB3533]

I like Perk, but Danny made a trade with his brain and not with his heart and it was the right move.

The trade gave us the best chance to compete.

We just were not better than a Miami team who had it in for us.

If Rondo was healthy, we may have actually given the a 6 or 7 game fight.

[Donoghus]

Wasn't upset at the time of the trade and nothing has changed my mind about it.  Long term, I thought it was best for the club. Short-term?  Iffy.

[Interceptor]

Yes. The starting center whose departure severely rattled the teams' best player by his own admission not leaving gives the Cs a better chance.

Yeah, sure, for a few weeks in the regular season, perhaps.

How about the playoffs? Rondo was so "rattled" by Perk's trade, that when he dislocates his elbow in Game 3 against Miami -- by his own admission the most pain he's ever been in playing basketball -- he comes back into the game in the fourth quarter and puts up a couple one-handed buckets. Then he plays out the next two games, with big minutes and one arm. Let me add to that, that this elbow was still giving him trouble over two months later after the injury.

So what does our despondent point guard do if Perk is there? Ninja backflips? Spit fireballs? Because if someone is going to suggest that Rondo wasn't giving his all, we've set a pretty high bar to clear, don't you think?

At this point I am feeling insulted on Rondo's behalf.

[Moranis]

It's irrefutable that he helps out the Cs how much help is surely in contention, and unknowable.

of course it is refutable given the context.  Do Perkins and Robinson help more than Green and Krstic?  No one has any idea in that regard, but it is certainly not irrefutable.

Nobody has any idea whether having a legitimate starting center and keeping the chemistry of the last 4 years (to the trade) together would have been better than Krstic and Green, knowing the way Krstic and Green played?

I just don't even think its debatable

Green wasn't nearly as bad as you make him out to be, and who exactly plays the 20 minutes a game Green played if he isn't on the team (von wafer?, delonte west?).  Seriously, the Celtics had no backup SF on any kind on that roster without Jeff Green, so unless you are playing Pierce 48 minutes a night or playing very small, it absolutely is debatable.  Krstic also played in 7 of the 9 playoff games and was fairly efficient in his role (much more efficient scorer than Perk, and even his rebounding rate wasn't much worse).  

And frankly, how do the Celtics even field a team in the week after the trade without moving the injured Perkins for two healthy bodies.  

Perk was a shell of himself last year and wouldn't have helped the Celtics at all in the playoffs.  That to me is undebatable.