Something I don't understand...

[ScoobyDoo]

The play where Kleiza hit Rondo was clearly a flagrant to me. Rondo was mid air, way up there going for the rim and Kleiza didn't really make a play on the ball, hit him in the chest with his forearms and then extended his arms out putting Rondo vertical for a very hard landing.

This is one of those plays where Rondo "easily" could have broken his wrist or done something worse.

And yet.....no one from our team clocked Kleiza. I just cannot comprehend this.

Now, when I say "clocked" I do not mean punch, I mean coming into the play with some steam and shoving Kleiza into the second row or driving him up into the stansion and then getting very, very verbal with the guy.

Give me the tech, give me a one game suspension if you have to, I'll take it and gladly pay the fines - you're not going to make that level of dangerous play on a teammate of mine without a price and without having it made very clear to you that you that your turn is coming.

And to be honest I don't care what the team policy is or what the coaches say. That play on my teamamte, if I'm on the court...you're getting a piece of me.

Thoughts - why was no one AT THE LEAST in Kleiza's grill in a head to head conversation?

Thoughts?     

[Eja117]

this is one of those things I don't like to think about

[FallGuy]

The play where Kleiza hit Rondo was clearly a flagrant to me. Rondo was mid air, way up there going for the rim and Kleiza didn't really make a play on the ball, hit him in the chest with his forearms and then extended his arms out putting Rondo vertical for a very hard landing.

This is one of those plays where Rondo "easily" could have broken his wrist or done something worse.

And yet.....no one from our team clocked Kleiza. I just cannot comprehend this.

Now, when I say "clocked" I do not mean punch, I mean coming into the play with some steam and shoving Kleiza into the second row or driving him up into the stansion and then getting very, very verbal with the guy.

Give me the tech, give me a one game suspension if you have to, I'll take it and gladly pay the fines - you're not going to make that level of dangerous play on a teammate of mine without a price and without having it made very clear to you that you that your turn is coming.

And to be honest I don't care what the team policy is or what the coaches say. That play on my teamamte, if I'm on the court...you're getting a piece of me.

Thoughts - why was no one AT THE LEAST in Kleiza's grill in a head to head conversation?

Thoughts?    

Below is from: http://celticshub.com/2012/01/19/highlight-gallery-celtics-96-raptors-73/

But then Kleiza comes down with his right arm and gives Rondo an extra shove towards the floor – while Rondo is in mid-air and unable to protect himself. This play could easily have resulted in Rondo walking off with a shattered or dislocated elbow or wrist. That’s not tough defense. It’s a cheap shot. And it’s cowardly.

This is exactly the kind of play the NBA should be cracking down on. But Rondo walked off, so they won’t.

Here’s another thing I hate about this play, because it’s emblematic of the softening of this Boston roster: nobody did anything about it. There was no confrontation between the C’s and Raptors and even if it would have amounted to just pushing and bluster, it would have indicated this team still has the fire necessary for me to believe they can turn this season around.

Imagine what would have happened if Boston had James Posey, Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins on the floor when Kleiza pulled that move. I don’t long for any of their returns (okay, maybe TA) but for the collective attitude and physicality they added to this team over the last four years. It’s not there anymore. Boston is a team that can be pushed around. And they won’t always push back.

[mqtcelticsfan]

Setting aside the sportsmanship issues raised, Kleiza only played for like 5 minutes after that and only took jumpers after that, according to the box score. Most retaliation comes in the form of hard fouls on the other end.

[ScoobyDoo]

Thanks for finding that article FallGuy, I hadn't read, but I agree with it 100%.

I personally would much rather get way up into the guy's grill immediately upon the incident occurring than retaliating with another hard and possibly dangerous foul on the other end. Sportsmanship to me is addressing BS when you see it and then continuing to play with your own personal sportsmanship thereafter. Bad sportsmanship to me would be perpetuating the punkish play by cheap shotting the guy 2 minutes later.

And again I'm not talking about punching the guy - I'm talking about giving him a good shove and say hello to him very directly.

Bad sportsmanship to me is allowing other players to physically threaten the career of your teammate without making it clearly understood that it is unacceptable.

A kid watches the game, Kleiza sends Rondo airborne. Nothing is done. Translation to kid > it's acceptable to play that way and jeopardize a player's health in the process.

A kid watches the game, Kleiza sends Rondo airborne. Three players descend on the player who committed the foul, shove him, tie him up and get very verbal with the player, reprimanding him. Translation to kid > it's not Ok to jeopardize the health of other players....

I don't know...Maybe I'm too old school.

           
 

[ianboyextreme]

j

[ScoobyDoo]

What is "j"?

[mqtcelticsfan]

Bad sportsmanship to me is allowing other players to physically threaten the career of your teammate without making it clearly understood that it is unacceptable.

A kid watches the game, Kleiza sends Rondo airborne. Nothing is done. Translation to kid > it's acceptable to play that way and jeopardize a player's health in the process.

A kid watches the game, Kleiza sends Rondo airborne. Three players descend on the player who committed the foul, shove him, tie him up and get very verbal with the player, reprimanding him. Translation to kid > it's not Ok to jeopardize the health of other players....

I have to thoroughly disagree with you on this point. Bad sportsmanship is the actual act of physically threatening a guy's career. It is on the NBA to take care of this problem, not the Celtics. If Kleiza had been ejected for that play, it would be more likely to change the perception for those watching. All that getting into a shoving match with Kleiza would accomplish would be to teach kids that confrontation is the answer.

[Junkyard Dawg]

i don't remember exactly what happened on that play, but I remember watching it, seeing the replay, and thinking it wasn't that bad.. I dunno, I've seen plenty worse.

[ScoobyDoo]

I agree with you that the NBA should come down much harder than they do on these incidents and that that would "also" go a long way towards having a better product on the floor.

Until I see that day, I will make my own line in the sand and do the job to protect myself and my teammates.

I guess I grew up in an era where confrontation is Ok, and actually very healthy. And there is a clear difference to me between physically assaulting someone in the form of a punch and giving someone a good bump or shove and then engaging in a heated conversation with them, letting them know what just happened is not ok.

I think we all experienced bullies growing up. I never got whacked and ran crying to my Mom and Dad to make the bad guy go away. If you didn't stand your ground, you would continue to get whacked, especially if the teachers weren't always there to monitor and/or punish the bully correctly.

When bad actions are taken - you address it head on, you don't wait for someone to hold your hand.

Can you imagine Michael Jordan getting hit like that - you don't think he would so far up into Kleiza's grill that Kleiza would think long and hard about doing another play like that?

To me that is the epitome of class and "just" toughness in sports.

Or should we say, "well, Kleiza was maybe having a bad day, we also need to think about his feelings and what he might have been going through..."

    

[Celtics4ever]

Standing up for a team mates isn't assault, IMHO.   The league cracked down on stuff after players went into the stands in Detroit.  Now there is zero tolerance for fighting or the like and it hurts your team more than helps your team mate.  I too, grew up in that era.   I have did my share of enforcing too and even threw a few punches at few times in a few games because I was the recipient of a cheap shot.  It's one thing when your punching joe blow whose livelihood don't depend on his body and another when your clobbering a professional athlete.  It isn't a pro's athletes interest to throw down so much is at stake.

[ScoobyDoo]

Yes, I understand that and I'm not advocating punching Kleiza at all, I'm just saying you give him a shove and have a few serious words with him.

I just couldn't understand that there was zero reaction to another player leveling our player.

Anyway, good counter points.

Another thing I'd like to see, along the lines of what mqtcelticsfan said is a much harder response and penalty for the player who is most responsible for initiating the confrontation rather than equally penalizing all parties involved.

For example, let's say someone on the C's went and confronted Kleiza and it got into a little shoving match and taunts with each other.

Eject Kleiza and give him a one game suspension for cheap shotting a guy and starting a confrontation as a result. If Bass got into a shoving match as a result of standing up for his team mate, give him a tech...

In other words, punish the guy the created confrontation, the most.   

[Zev Love X]

This stuff tends to get a little exaggerated in my opinion. By that, i mean we romanticize about this time where if anyone laid a finger on one of our players we just got all tough on them and retaliated. Here's a clip of rondo getting blatantly shoved for no reason and Perk is right there and doesn't do a thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdRDXXAgvFw&feature=related

Don't get me wrong we were tougher before, but i think that more translated into tougher defense, not a 'don't touch us or you'll die' kind of way

[ScoobyDoo]

Yeah, maybe so. See, a play like that if I'm Rondo I feel like I'm at least going to "say" something to Curry for hitting me in the back of the head. I don't need to cold cock the guy, but I should at least let him know I registered who it was that hit me and it's been noted. 

I don't know, maybe you should just take whatever flagrants come your way, even if they put you out for 2-3 wks and just keep playing basketball - don't say a word or do anything when you get whacked. Just be quiet and take it, don't confront anyone. In all seriousness, maybe that is more effective.

I'm just not wired that way and never was when I played, and in all my confrontations on the court it never once lead to an actual fight, it just lead to everyone knowing where each other stood.

[Zev Love X]

I didn't like the lack of reaction either, especially cus I've seen rondo stick up for guys multiple times for fouling too hard and things like that. And am i the only one who remembers when it was Kleiza last year that when Rondo was on the ground, he went out of his way to walk on Rondo's ankle and add pressure to it and left Rondo in pain?  Cant find the clip but that really stuck out to me