Watching Marshon Brooks Is Killing Me

[Celtics18]

Those of you who are so dismissive of Brooks' success, what would it take for you to admit that he's legit?  Is there a certain stat you're looking for?  A "Player of the Week" award?

Because right now he's 6th among all SGs in terms of PER, at 19.36.  So he's not just a chucker or "volume scorer".  The guy is efficient (TS% of 56.1), and this is a fact regardless of the team he plays for.  

Let's all just admit that Danny may have missed the boat on this one.  We are badly lacking in scoring, and Brooks is a kid who could have come in right away and given our offense a boost.

I'm not going to try to disparage Brooks' accomplishments, but I think it's still too early to say that we lost out on this one.  JaJuan Johnson may take some time to develop, but if he does, he has the potential to be a very valuable NBA player.  Guys his size, with his skill set and athleticism are not easy to come by. 

[incoherent]

I'll admit, easily, that I wish we had Brooks.

Just because Danny missed this one doesn't make him a horrible GM.

[MBz]

I love how people are using oh it's because he's playing on the bad Nets, do people not realize we are 4-8 and we are a bottom feeder right now?  He may be a chucker, but isn't that what we need?  Someone who can score?  We're 4-8 and JuJuan Johnson can't get on the floor.  Until he starts getting on the floor and is actually productive, everyone should want Brooks.  Brooks has shown he can score at the NBA level. Johnson hasn't shown us anything and he has garbage guys like Jermaine O'Neal and Greg Stiesma in front of him.

[snowball]

Just like I posted on the night of the draft.

There is no excuse for this failure.

Brooks was right here in Providence.

Danny made a colossal mistake.

[MetroGlobe]

Just like I posted on the night of the draft.

There is no excuse for this failure.

Brooks was right here in Providence.

Danny made a colossal mistake.

Perfectly said.  This is what I want from my fellow fans.  Brooks is exactly what we need for right now, AND for the future.  Obviously we can't change the past.  But the fan base (and the blogosphere in general) needs to hold GMs accountable for such egregious mistakes.  Then the Boston press will eventually steal our threads and base columns around our ideas.  And that's exactly what we want.  It needs to be written about, debated, and reiterated to death.

Then hopefully the owners will realize it to, and make sure Ainge doesn't make the same mistake ever again.

[MBunge]

And if Ainge had taken Brooks, then what?  He's getting about 28 minutes a night in NJ.  Would Doc play him that much here?  Hell, no.  Brooks is also averaging over 11 shots a game?  Would he be getting even half as many attempts here?  Again, not a chance.  And does Brooks play any defense at all?  Who knows?

Mike

[MetroGlobe]

And if Ainge had taken Brooks, then what?  He's getting about 28 minutes a night in NJ.  Would Doc play him that much here?  Hell, no.  Brooks is also averaging over 11 shots a game?  Would he be getting even half as many attempts here?  Again, not a chance.  And does Brooks play any defense at all?  Who knows?

Mike

Well he wouldn't get 28 mpg.  But don't you think he's better than Avery Bradley and/or Marquis Daniels?  He's certainly blowing them off the map in terms of PER.  If they can get minutes under Doc, then so would Brooks.  And he happens to be highly skilled in the one thing we're lacking the most - offense and scoring.

[MBunge]

Well he wouldn't get 28 mpg.  But don't you think he's better than Avery Bradley and/or Marquis Daniels? 

If Moore and JJJ were getting 28 minutes a night, what kind of stats would they be putting up?  I have no idea and you have no clue what Brooks would be doing under Doc's coaching.

Now, I'm not saying Brooks isn't a good player or anything like that.  Maybe it would've been good to have him for next season.  But Brooks wouldn't get the opportunity under Doc this season that he's now getting in Jersey.

Mike

[ScoobyDoo]

I think we have to wait a year or two to see how JJJ pans out.

JJJ's strengths:
1. Great athlete, can really run the floor for a big man, which will mix well with Rondo on the break in the future.
2. Very long and apparently a quick and good leaper
3. Good outside J
4. Reportedly good defensive ability

* My main concern with JJJ is that is is so rail thin. If he can add 20-30 pounds of muscle over the next 2-3 seasons we could end up with a real gem in this guy. But if he cannot seriously bulk up I don't how long of a career he'll have.

Meanwhile, what I like about Brooks is:
1. You can tell the guy is a natural born scorer. The way he moves, shoots and creates space to get his shot off is done at a very high level, especially for a rookie.
2. He just looks like he belongs in the NBA, while other rookies look like they are lost.
3. His length and athleticism, if applied aggressively, provide him with the opportunity to become a good rebounder and defensive guy at the 2 spot - if he applies himself.

I definitely like what I've seen form him and I think he'll have a long career - as a starter in the NBA.

But again, if JJJ can add 20-30 pounds we might be saying the same thing about him in 2-3 years. Big men take a bit longer sometimes. See Al Jeff. and K Perk...    

[Chris]

Well he wouldn't get 28 mpg.  But don't you think he's better than Avery Bradley and/or Marquis Daniels? 

If Moore and JJJ were getting 28 minutes a night, what kind of stats would they be putting up?  I have no idea and you have no clue what Brooks would be doing under Doc's coaching.

Now, I'm not saying Brooks isn't a good player or anything like that.  Maybe it would've been good to have him for next season.  But Brooks wouldn't get the opportunity under Doc this season that he's now getting in Jersey.

Mike

Seeing Moore the last couple of nights, I don't think he would be putting up much numbers...he just isn't anywhere close to an NBA athlete.  And Johnson is just raw.  Until he learns proper footwork (when he catches the ball below the FT line, he looks like he has never been there before), I don't think he will do much either.

With that said, give Johnson a year of NBA coaching, and he could very well fly pass Brooks.

Every GM in the league knew Brooks was a smooth athlete who could score the ball.  However, there is a darn good reason he fell as far as he did.  He has a reputation as a guy who is not a team player, and who can't do much other than be a gunner.  That is the type of thing that shows with time.  Just like Johnson's natural size, athleticism, and work ethic are the things that show with time.

Now, maybe Brooks has/will mature (or the scouting report was blown out of proportion), but I am not willing to annoint anyone with a reputation like he had coming out of college, until he shows a little staying power.

[saltlover]

And if Ainge had taken Brooks, then what?  He's getting about 28 minutes a night in NJ.  Would Doc play him that much here?  Hell, no.  Brooks is also averaging over 11 shots a game?  Would he be getting even half as many attempts here?  Again, not a chance.  And does Brooks play any defense at all?  Who knows?

Mike

Well he wouldn't get 28 mpg.  But don't you think he's better than Avery Bradley and/or Marquis Daniels?  He's certainly blowing them off the map in terms of PER.  If they can get minutes under Doc, then so would Brooks.  And he happens to be highly skilled in the one thing we're lacking the most - offense and scoring.

PER is fine and all, but if Doc tells Bradley that his job is to get the ball to a scorer, that's not going to show up in PER, unless it's an assist.  Basketball stats are hard, even PER, because it's such a team game except for a few of those special, individual players.  How do you calculate a guy who's job it is to set screens, or harasses the point guard into wasting most of the shot clock?  Nor does it notice if a player misses a defensive switch and allows someone to take a wide open shot.  I'm not saying PER isn't something to look at, but don't say "Brooks has a great PER for 12 games on a crap team" and equate that to "OMG, Brooks is the next Kobe, how did we miss him??"  Is PER better than PPG?  Sure.  It helps separate efficient scorers from volume scorers, and players who rack up a lot of assists from players who rack up assists and turnovers, and so on.  But all those other things that are important in basketball, like participating in an offense and a defense?  Those are skills.  Some players are just better at it than others, and PER can't catch that, nor is it attempting to try.

At draft time, the book on Brooks was good scorer, not much else.  The book on JJJ was good shooter and defender, great athlete, might need to bulk up a little.  I don't see how those books have changed much in the past month.

I suppose you can debate if Brooks would have made the Celtics better this year, but given that he hasn't pushed the Nets over the top in any games, I'm not sure how you can make the argument that he would have pushed the Celtics over the top with considerably less playing time.

[Celtics18]

And if Ainge had taken Brooks, then what?  He's getting about 28 minutes a night in NJ.  Would Doc play him that much here?  Hell, no.  Brooks is also averaging over 11 shots a game?  Would he be getting even half as many attempts here?  Again, not a chance.  And does Brooks play any defense at all?  Who knows?

Mike

Well he wouldn't get 28 mpg.  But don't you think he's better than Avery Bradley and/or Marquis Daniels?  He's certainly blowing them off the map in terms of PER.  If they can get minutes under Doc, then so would Brooks.  And he happens to be highly skilled in the one thing we're lacking the most - offense and scoring.

Again, nothing against Marshon, but I disagree that what this team needs is that type of scorer.  I'd say the same thing if you told me that Danny wanted to bring in say a Jamal Crawford or a Nick Young.  I just don't think that kind of one trick pony volume shooter off the bench is the kind of player that fits in with our system of play. 

I still like the Johnson pick. 

[greenpride32]

Brooks' numbers don't mean anything because he plays for a bad team?  That's one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard.  The Nets are horrible no question; but they are an NBA team and the play other NBA teams; not D-League teams.  It's not like he's piling up the numbers against high school kids.

Last I checked guys like Griffin, Curry, Love put up some good numbers on some really bad teams; so those numbers weren't any proof that they can ball right?  It's one thing to just put up shots, but it's another thing to actually be able to make them too.

[moiso]

And if Ainge had taken Brooks, then what?  He's getting about 28 minutes a night in NJ.  Would Doc play him that much here?  Hell, no.  Brooks is also averaging over 11 shots a game?  Would he be getting even half as many attempts here?  Again, not a chance.  And does Brooks play any defense at all?  Who knows?

Mike

Well he wouldn't get 28 mpg.  But don't you think he's better than Avery Bradley and/or Marquis Daniels?  He's certainly blowing them off the map in terms of PER.  If they can get minutes under Doc, then so would Brooks.  And he happens to be highly skilled in the one thing we're lacking the most - offense and scoring.

Again, nothing against Marshon, but I disagree that what this team needs is that type of scorer.  I'd say the same thing if you told me that Danny wanted to bring in say a Jamal Crawford or a Nick Young.  I just don't think that kind of one trick pony volume shooter off the bench is the kind of player that fits in with our system of play. 

I still like the Johnson pick. 

If any of these guys is hitting decent percentage of his shots for us, then I'd certainly prefer them to Daniels and Bradley.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I'd like to see JJJ get real minutes before lamenting a lack of Marshon Brooks.  I saw Johnson play a lot in college, and I assure you, he's got ability.

I think nobody is dissing JJJ's potential. It's just that we have no reliable bench scoring and a guy like Brooks could help us right away. We could have Paul or Ray in the bench, and not miss a beat on scoring.