Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team

[CelticsFanNC]

Rondo is a building block. Not a franchise player.

  Yup, that's the way I view it too.  He is a very, very good player.  He plays very well in the post season.  He's dominated entire playoff series'. 

  Asking him to carry a team offensively especially when that team isn't hitting wide open shots is asking him to be something he's not.

  That doesn't mean he isn't an excellent building block for a championship team.   He's a facilitator and one of the best in the NBA.  He's capable of playing dominant stretches on the defensive end.  He get his teammates shots exactly where they can be most effective.  Again he has played HUGE in big games.

  He's not a franchise player.  So what. 

[RAcker]

Bottom line is, the difference between the Celtics now and when they were dominant is that Rondo keeps the ball in his hands waaaaaaay more each possession.

With this team, they are at their best when the ball moves and right now it is sticking every time down the floor. If we fix that problem, we begin to win.

[RAcker]

Oh...that and start to rebound the freakin' ball!

[soap07]

Chris Paul is showing me that even HE can't carry the Clips. After what I saw last night? There is NO WAY that the Clips are beating The Los Angeles Lakers in a seven game series.

The same Chris Paul who just put up 33/6 on the Lakers last night in a win that moved the team to 6-3?

Look, Rondo will never be the best player on a championship team. Yes, he's played well in the playoffs before. Yes, he's played well against certain teams - great. He's a good - not great player. He's not Chris Paul or Deron Williams. He just doesn't have that level of greatness in him - noting wrong with that. He'll be a perennial All Star and could definitely be a cog on a championship team.

[BballTim]

I really like Rondo. I just wish he wouldn't so obviously take nights off as he did last night.

And I really like Rondo too!  I think it's ridiculous that I'm supposedly "clearly not a fan" of Rondo if I don't believe he's the sort of player around whom you build a team.  I don't believe he's the sort of player who can be your leader, your go-to-guy, if you want to be a really good team. 

Does that mean I don't really appreciate the things that he can do really well?  Of course not.

  You think you appreciate what Rondo adds to a team, I think I appreciate what Rondo adds to a team, so did the guy who (around the start of the season) said that without 3 HOFers Rondo would be another Gerald Green. But you're starting threads about how Rondo can't carry an offense when the offense is 16 ppp better when he's in than when he's on the bench. I'd also disagree with your assessment of what he does well when you don't think he's worth keeping yet you think Melo is a transcendent player. But, to each his own.

Rondo is capable of being incredibly dominant in short stretches -- sometimes even for a few games at a time.  But that's as far as it goes.  There's nothing wrong with that!  He's not an MVP, or a superstar, but he's still unquestionably an All-Star.

  You're basing what he's capable of based on what he's accomplished before he was 25 years old. By that standard we know that LeBron and DH aren't capable of being the best player on a championship team, just like we knew Dirk wasn't capable of that. He's done things in the playoffs that very few people in nba history have done. I can see the argument that you don't think he'll put it together, clearly he's capable of doing it.

You know what, Tim?  You're right.  I hate Rondo.  Always have.  I completely dislike his game and I can't stand watching him, and I have an agenda which is based around convincing as many people as possible that the Celtics need to get rid of Rondo right away just so I don't have to watch him anymore. 

  I can't really comment on that, I haven't paid a ton of attention to what your position on Rondo's been over time. I thought my reasons for disagreeing with your original post were fairly reasonable and based on what I've seen in the games.
  

[soap07]

Rondo can't carry an offense when the offense is 16 ppp better when he's in than when he's on the bench.

He can carry an offense - just not very far. Boston is 14th in the league in efficiency. Rondo plays 37 minutes a game. Who cares that the offense is 16 ppp better when he's in? The other 11 minutes feature back up point guard meetings from Keyon Dooling and Avery Bradley. That number speaks more to the Celtics having one of the worst benches in the league than it does to how amazing Rondo is.

Rondo is a good point guard. Great passer. Great rebounder for a point guard. But his inability to shoot is what keeps him from being great and why you should never build around him.

[Tone]

Rondo can carry a team he just need some athleticism to run the court with him. Regardless the big 3 are older and needs players who can run the floor

[BballTim]

Rondo can't carry an offense when the offense is 16 ppp better when he's in than when he's on the bench.

He can carry an offense - just not very far. Boston is 14th in the league in efficiency. Rondo plays 37 minutes a game. Who cares that the offense is 16 ppp better when he's in? The other 11 minutes feature back up point guard meetings from Keyon Dooling and Avery Bradley. That number speaks more to the Celtics having one of the worst benches in the league than it does to how amazing Rondo is.

  So by your measure Rondo's carrying the Celts offense better than CP3 carried the Hornets last year, I think they were around 20th in efficiency. It's also farther than Wade can carry a team offensively, based on the Heat's play the year before LeBron got there. Need I go on?

  And the Celts don't really have one of the worst benches in the league, in general they've gotten decent production from them.

[BballTim]

Chris Paul is showing me that even HE can't carry the Clips. After what I saw last night? There is NO WAY that the Clips are beating The Los Angeles Lakers in a seven game series.

The same Chris Paul who just put up 33/6 on the Lakers last night in a win that moved the team to 6-3?

Look, Rondo will never be the best player on a championship team. Yes, he's played well in the playoffs before. Yes, he's played well against certain teams - great. He's a good - not great player. He's not Chris Paul or Deron Williams. He just doesn't have that level of greatness in him - noting wrong with that. He'll be a perennial All Star and could definitely be a cog on a championship team.

  If you've got any evidence that CP3 or DWill will ever be the best player on a championship team, or even come as close as Rondo already has I'd love to see it.

[JSD]

Chris Paul is showing me that even HE can't carry the Clips. After what I saw last night? There is NO WAY that the Clips are beating The Los Angeles Lakers in a seven game series.

The same Chris Paul who just put up 33/6 on the Lakers last night in a win that moved the team to 6-3?

Look, Rondo will never be the best player on a championship team. Yes, he's played well in the playoffs before. Yes, he's played well against certain teams - great. He's a good - not great player. He's not Chris Paul or Deron Williams. He just doesn't have that level of greatness in him - noting wrong with that. He'll be a perennial All Star and could definitely be a cog on a championship team.

  If you've got any evidence that CP3 or DWill will ever be the best player on a championship team, or even come as close as Rondo already has I'd love to see it.

Has either ever played with even one hall of famer? Rondo has been playing with three the majority of his career, so I'm not sure it is a fair comparison. As a matter of fact, I would argue that if it were CP3 or DW on the Celtics instead of Rondo this whole time we would have beat the Lakers in 2010.

[BballTim]

Chris Paul is showing me that even HE can't carry the Clips. After what I saw last night? There is NO WAY that the Clips are beating The Los Angeles Lakers in a seven game series.

The same Chris Paul who just put up 33/6 on the Lakers last night in a win that moved the team to 6-3?

Look, Rondo will never be the best player on a championship team. Yes, he's played well in the playoffs before. Yes, he's played well against certain teams - great. He's a good - not great player. He's not Chris Paul or Deron Williams. He just doesn't have that level of greatness in him - noting wrong with that. He'll be a perennial All Star and could definitely be a cog on a championship team.

  If you've got any evidence that CP3 or DWill will ever be the best player on a championship team, or even come as close as Rondo already has I'd love to see it.

Has either ever played with even one hall of famer? Rondo has been playing with three the majority of his career, so I'm not sure it is a fair comparison. As a matter of fact, I would argue that if it were CP3 or DW on the Celtics instead of Rondo this whole time we would have beat the Lakers in 2010.

  I don't think we've seen much hall of fame level play from the big three the last couple of years, do you? And maybe we'd have won the title with those guys, maybe we'd have lost to the Cavs.

[vinnie]

Look...the way the team is playing right now?

Chris Paul couldn't carry The Boston Celtics.

Chris Paul is showing me that even HE can't carry the Clips. After what I saw last night? There is NO WAY that the Clips are beating The Los Angeles Lakers in a seven game series.

No way. And that is with supposedly the "best" PG out there.

Now mind you - I'm optimistic that the team will turn it around, but I think it's unfair to state that Rondo can't carry a team the way it is playing right now.

Not his fault.

What did you see last night that showed you the Clippers cannot beat the Lakers in a 7-game series? They led from wire to wire and other than Kobe taking his usual 30 shots a game and getting hot in the second half, the Lakers had no answer for the Clippers. I don't get it. The way the Lakers are playing is the way the Cavs used to play -- Give it to Kobe at get out of the way. I am sure that Bynum and Gasol aren't going to be too happy if it continues.

[soap07]

  If you've got any evidence that CP3 or DWill will ever be the best player on a championship team, or even come as close as Rondo already has I'd love to see it.

Do I really have to explain that CP3/Deron are undisputedly top 10 players, whereas Rondo is arguably top 20? Really? 

  So by your measure Rondo's carrying the Celts offense better than CP3 carried the Hornets last year, I think they were around 20th in efficiency. It's also farther than Wade can carry a team offensively, based on the Heat's play the year before LeBron got there. Need I go on?

The Hornets were 19th, yes, but actually with a better offensive efficiency -103 to this year's C's (100). Not that I should have to explain to you the difference in the supporting cast of last year's Hornets and this year's Celtics.

Give Paul some real teammates and suddenly the Clippers are 6th this year without time to gel.

And to your comment about the "productive bench" - there is one rotation ready player on the bench. One. Bass. That's it.

[jc3celticsphan]

surround rondo with some athletic beast and watch him go to work like tom brady in the no huddle offense

[gar]

surround rondo with some athletic beast and watch him go to work like tom brady in the no huddle offense

Exactly, give him some running mates.