Author Topic: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team  (Read 23209 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2012, 01:43:47 PM »

Offline cman88

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5530
  • Tommy Points: 397
this is just another rediculous post trying to disparage rondo...NO one player can carry a team...and right now rondo and maybe ray allen are the only 2 players scoring for this team.

Deron Williams couldnt carry the Nets either...is he a bad player?

you need a solid TEAM for anyone to be successful in this league..no one player save for a couple can will a tim to win with no help at all


Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2012, 01:55:28 PM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 53062
  • Tommy Points: 2574
Rondo is a building block. Not a franchise player.

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2012, 02:12:37 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Despite how bad the team as a whole as played, I think it's fair to say that Rondo has done about as much as he could possibly be expected to do so far this season.  He's come out from the very first tip off looking like he wants to prove to everyone that he's a star, and his numbers for the year so far would be his best season, at least statistically speaking.

Despite Rondo's great play, the team has struggled mightily against all but the very worst teams they've played.  I can't help thinking that this is strong confirmation about what many of us have suspected all along -- Rondo is a very good player, but he's not capable of carrying a flawed team.  

One caveat is that the team as currently constructed does not play to his strengths.  Half of the roster is not fast enough to keep up with him on fast breaks, or play the game the way he'd probably most like to play it.  Yet even as bad as they've been, there's still a lot of talent on this roster.  But with Paul playing badly and KG looking "creaky" (to put it mildly), the team has had an extremely difficult time scoring.  

To me this just underlines that you can't expect Rondo to carry a team offensively; if he's the most capable and consistent scorer on the roster (or even the #2), your team is going to have a very difficult time scoring points, and therefore most likely your team is just not going to be very good.

  First of all I don't think Rondo's really come out to prove anything to anyone, and he's not really trying to "carry the team", he's still playing within the system and getting people good looks at the basket instead of trying to score all the time. Also, you say there's a lot of talent on this team and I agree. But you're judging him on how the team has played so far, and so far PP is a small forward scoring 15 a game on 37% shooting and KG and JO are having trouble putting the ball in the hoop when he gets them the ball. I'd say they get fouled as often as they get shots off. I could also point out that most of the league is having trouble scoring this year. The Celts are 18th in offensive efficiency, just like the were last year, but at about *5* points per possession less this year.

  But I'd say that your main problem is trying to use this team's performance as evidence that Rondo doesn't do much to carry a team or an offense. The Celt's offensive rating when Rondo plays is 104, when he's out of the game it's 88. For reference, that's about the same difference in offensive efficiency that the Cavs saw with LeBron on and off the court in 2009-2010. As a team, we outscore opponents by 2.5 points per48 when he's in the game and get outscored by 17.6 per48 when he's on the bench.

  Clearly you're not a fan of Rondo. But I don't see how you can really watch the games and come to the conclusion that the problem with the Celts is a sign that Rondo doesn't have a big effect on our team's fortunes. They've been pretty dreadful aside from him. I didn't see the second half last night, but in the first half when he came out of the game they were up by 1. 6 or so minutes later he re-entered the game. The Celts were down by 10, and scored a grand total of 2 points in those 6 minutes. It wasn't all because of Rondo not being in the game, but much of it was.

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2012, 02:20:30 PM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
Rondo is a building block. Not a franchise player.

I'm not sure what the distinction is here, but I'd like to remind everyone that Rajon Rondo has been the best player on the floor in Celtics playoff series wins against Derrick Rose's Bulls, Dwayne Wade's Heat, Lebron James' Cavs, and Carmelo Anthony's Knicks.  He was also arguably our best player in a close seven game loss to the Lakers in the '09-'10 Finals.  

So, I say let's keep Rajon Rondo as our building block and build the next Celtics contender around him.  
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2012, 02:23:00 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
There's maybe 10 players in the league that can carry a team.


Rondo can't carry a team but he can  be a 1b type player on a championship team

Rondo-Harden-Deng-Smoove-Gasol

I think it's safe to say right now Rondo is the best player on that team (Harden probably passes him in a  couple years, but for now) and it could make a deep run in the playoffs

KG in his prime was easily a top-5 player, but by your definition he 'couldn't carry a team'.
what?

LBJ 'couldn't carry' a bad team either.  No single NBA player I've seen has been able to do so.


Hakeem Olajuwon thinks you're adorable.

Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell, Robert Horry and Otis Thorpe are insulted.

They can be as insulted as they want, but at that point in their careers they weren't better than  Shaq, Varejo, Antwan Jamison, Anthony Parker, Delonte.

  Throw in Mario Elie and Sam Cassell, and I'd say they were.

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2012, 02:25:59 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10726
  • Tommy Points: 830
There's maybe 10 players in the league that can carry a team.


Rondo can't carry a team but he can  be a 1b type player on a championship team

Rondo-Harden-Deng-Smoove-Gasol

I think it's safe to say right now Rondo is the best player on that team (Harden probably passes him in a  couple years, but for now) and it could make a deep run in the playoffs

KG in his prime was easily a top-5 player, but by your definition he 'couldn't carry a team'.
what?

LBJ 'couldn't carry' a bad team either.  No single NBA player I've seen has been able to do so.


Hakeem Olajuwon thinks you're adorable.

Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell, Robert Horry and Otis Thorpe are insulted.

They can be as insulted as they want, but at that point in their careers they weren't better than  Shaq, Varejo, Antwan Jamison, Anthony Parker, Delonte.

  Throw in Mario Elie and Sam Cassell, and I'd say they were.


People forget that Kenny, Otis and Vernon were over the hill by that point ( in both championship seasons Vernon shot under 40%) and Cassell was a rookie on that first team.

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2012, 02:26:47 PM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
There's maybe 10 players in the league that can carry a team.


Rondo can't carry a team but he can  be a 1b type player on a championship team

Rondo-Harden-Deng-Smoove-Gasol

I think it's safe to say right now Rondo is the best player on that team (Harden probably passes him in a  couple years, but for now) and it could make a deep run in the playoffs

KG in his prime was easily a top-5 player, but by your definition he 'couldn't carry a team'.
what?

LBJ 'couldn't carry' a bad team either.  No single NBA player I've seen has been able to do so.


Hakeem Olajuwon thinks you're adorable.

Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell, Robert Horry and Otis Thorpe are insulted.

They can be as insulted as they want, but at that point in their careers they weren't better than  Shaq, Varejo, Antwan Jamison, Anthony Parker, Delonte.

Really?  Now they are even more insulted.  And, rightfully so.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2012, 02:32:05 PM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 53062
  • Tommy Points: 2574
Rondo is a building block. Not a franchise player.

I'm not sure what the distinction is here, but I'd like to remind everyone that Rajon Rondo has been the best player on the floor in Celtics playoff series wins against Derrick Rose's Bulls, Dwayne Wade's Heat, Lebron James' Cavs, and Carmelo Anthony's Knicks.  He was also arguably our best player in a close seven game loss to the Lakers in the '09-'10 Finals.  

So, I say let's keep Rajon Rondo as our building block and build the next Celtics contender around him.  
Franchise player = someone you build a team around, generally a top five or top ten player.  

Building block = a key cog in the machine, genuine top tier talent, but not an MVP caliber talent

For example,

Franchise player = LeBron, Durant, Dwight
Building block = Amare Stoudemire, LaMarcus Aldridge Manu Ginobili, Danny Granger and lesser talents

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2012, 02:33:29 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
There's maybe 10 players in the league that can carry a team.


Rondo can't carry a team but he can  be a 1b type player on a championship team

Rondo-Harden-Deng-Smoove-Gasol

I think it's safe to say right now Rondo is the best player on that team (Harden probably passes him in a  couple years, but for now) and it could make a deep run in the playoffs

KG in his prime was easily a top-5 player, but by your definition he 'couldn't carry a team'.
what?

LBJ 'couldn't carry' a bad team either.  No single NBA player I've seen has been able to do so.


Hakeem Olajuwon thinks you're adorable.

Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell, Robert Horry and Otis Thorpe are insulted.

They can be as insulted as they want, but at that point in their careers they weren't better than  Shaq, Varejo, Antwan Jamison, Anthony Parker, Delonte.

  Throw in Mario Elie and Sam Cassell, and I'd say they were.


People forget that Kenny, Otis and Vernon were over the hill by that point ( in both championship seasons Vernon shot under 40%) and Cassell was a rookie on that first team.

  I wasn't a big Maxwell fan, but they were in the 28-31 age range, which is pretty much the prime years for a player.

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2012, 02:34:09 PM »

Offline cman88

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5530
  • Tommy Points: 397
its funny, before the argument was that Rondo couldnt take more of a scoring load...now that he is(and doing it in multiple ways like jumpshooting, free throws, layups) those who arent rondo fans have to say "well he cant carry a team!"

I just dont think i've seen too many players carry a team all by themselves..thats why it is a team game....if you build a team around rondo very similar to how the big 3 had been built I think they can be successful

and Who lets be honest, getting a "franchise player" is like shooting fish in a barrel..the celtics are better off putting together a solid "team" of building blocks

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2012, 02:34:48 PM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34115
  • Tommy Points: 1612
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
Rondo is a building block. Not a franchise player.


Bingo.


Rondo is a good player to have on your team.  He is one of the players you can use to build a team, but he is not the 'key stone' (franchise player).



That is why I would have no issue if he was traded for such a key stone at the beginning of their prime.  I would not trade him for a key stone at the end of their prime or a poo-poo platter of average to good players.

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2012, 02:35:32 PM »

Offline clover

  • Front Page Moderator
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6130
  • Tommy Points: 315
There's maybe 10 players in the league that can carry a team.


Rondo can't carry a team but he can  be a 1b type player on a championship team

Rondo-Harden-Deng-Smoove-Gasol

I think it's safe to say right now Rondo is the best player on that team (Harden probably passes him in a  couple years, but for now) and it could make a deep run in the playoffs

KG in his prime was easily a top-5 player, but by your definition he 'couldn't carry a team'.
what?

LBJ 'couldn't carry' a bad team either.  No single NBA player I've seen has been able to do so.


Hakeem Olajuwon thinks you're adorable.

The exception that proves the rule.

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2012, 02:35:56 PM »

Offline FearTheBeard

  • Lonnie Walker IV
  • Posts: 62
  • Tommy Points: 5
There's maybe 10 players in the league that can carry a team.


Rondo can't carry a team but he can  be a 1b type player on a championship team

Rondo-Harden-Deng-Smoove-Gasol

I think it's safe to say right now Rondo is the best player on that team (Harden probably passes him in a  couple years, but for now) and it could make a deep run in the playoffs

If that... Kobe is probably the best player of the last ten years and he has always needed a 1b (in sHAQ'S case I would even say 1A) type player to help him get to the top. To say anyone, especially Rondo, can carry a team alone in todays game is somewhat ridiculous.

exactly...i was just saying in terms of carrying a team to the playoffs like Dwight has been doing, Lebron did in Cleveland,  Kobe between Shaq-Pau era. Durant 2 years ago etc. No way can you win the chip with  1 player

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2012, 02:36:18 PM »

Offline PosImpos

  • NCE
  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12383
  • Tommy Points: 903
  • Rondo = Good
My main point in making this post was to respond to the oft-floated notion that in the post-Big 3 era it will be possible to simply surround Rondo with solid roleplayers and still be a competitive team.  So far this season we've basically had a team of role players, Rondo, and a decent complementary scorer in Ray Allen, and we've been awful.


Also, for those who mentioned Derrick Rose, take a look at how the Bulls' frontcourt has performed early in the season (Noah and Boozer have been pretty bad) and then take a look at the Bulls' record.
Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

"I know you all wanna win, but you gotta do it TOGETHER!"
- Doc Rivers

Re: Early Season Lesson: Rondo Can't Carry a Team
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2012, 02:36:18 PM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 53062
  • Tommy Points: 2574
and Who lets be honest, getting a "franchise player" is like shooting fish in a barrel..the celtics are better off putting together a solid "team" of building blocks
I fully agree ... I want to see Danny build a team in the mold of the recent Detroit Pistons championship team with Rajon Rondo starring as the first piece of the puzzle.