I accept that Rondo will never be a good free throw shooter

[kozlodoev]

It's extremely frustrating and I don't accept it in the same way I never accepted careless 4th quarter interceptions by Brett Farve and the way Deion Sanders wouldn't tackle people.

There are 7th graders that work harder on their free throws and get better results. You'd think for 10mill a year Rondo would care.

Rondo's act is getting thin

And how do you know that Rondo doesn't practice? Please don't claim stuff and say it as fact. Your act is getting thin.

I suppose it's possible he practices long long hours and just purposely misses his free throws

  Or, much more likely, your claim that everyone can get to be a great ft shooter if they practice enough is wrong.

Ding!

we have a winner, although EJA will never admit it.

Yes, Free throw shooting is a skill you can improve on, just like every other skill.

No, despite EJA's assertions to the contrary, simple practice will not make anyone a 98% free throw shooter. You are limited by form and natural talent.

You can show all the trick video's you want, Ill take statistics. And unless you are here to tell me that, barring FOUR guys in the history of the league, no one ever thought "huh, you know what would be cool? shooting 95% from the line. i'm gonna practice till i can" I'll stick by that FT shooting is not as simple as you make out.

Rondo is an awful shooter. I would bet you any amount of money that you could lock him in a court for the next 2 years or more with nothing to do but shoot FT's 8 hours a day and his percentage would improve to 75%, at best. he just isn't a good shooter.

And since you have no idea what his practice routine involves i dismiss that point utterly. Outside of claiming he'd be a 90% shooter if he practiced and posting lame video's, you don't seem to have a point buried anywhere in your posts so...

I don't think anyone wants him to be great, but he isn't even average at this stage of his career.

[BballTim]

His jumpshot got better (hit one pretty much every night and he Paul Pierce faked Gaines last night). Not even 10 games into the season and already this. Jeez.

I dont think people are really upset about these few games.  It's the fact that he is so far continuing along the same course from last year and before.  So it gets increasingly hard to defend him using the "he's still improving" argument. 

I myself am concerned about what happens if he follows last years pattern, where he starts off well and slows down as the season progresses.  If what he's doing now (less assists, less steals, higher TOs, equally bad free throws), is the best he shows all season, thats not too good.

We are only 7 games into the season, he's had a couple of good games, one great game and a couple of bad games. Let's wait until we are 25-30 games in before we make this assumption!

Isn't this his 5th year? He has shown no improvement in his free throw shooting since he entered the league.  How long does it take to say, "I guess he isn't going to get better."

Let's see.. it took Kidd up until his 6th year to shoot 70% or better, and he didn't get to 80% until his 8th year in the league. So to say "I guess he isn't going to get better" would be a far stretch wouldn't you think?

I guess that leads to the question of whether Kidd's turnaround was the exception or the norm?  I'd tend to think the former.    So I don't think its necessarily a "far stretch" to say what vinnie is saying.

  I don't think it's really unusual for players to improve their shooting as they age, but that could be a case of players that don't improve not lasting into their 30s in the nba.

I was talking specifically about Jason Kidd.  How many players have improved roughly 13% at the free throw line over the course of their careers?

Can't imagine too many and, like I mentioned before, I think its more an exception than the norm.

  Again, I think it's far from rare. The question is whether their improvement was age based or experience based, as many of them (that I've seen) entered the league older than Rondo did.

[Kwhit10]

I'd love to see him try underhand.  But yea I agree I can't really expect it to get better if it hasn't by now.  But if it does it's all gravy.

[mgent]

I guess the elephant answers the question about whether you need perfect form, or even hands.

Yeah those videos really help your point, considering Rondo shoots at baskets that are 8 feet below him, or at acute-angled backboards that automatically put the ball in.  Also let's act like monkeys don't have the kind of superior hand-eye coordination that allows them to swing from branch to branch without error, or like elephants don't have one of the most versatile and dexterous appendages on the planet (sensitive and agile enough to pick up a flat coin or a single blade of grass).

Come on guys.

Who's to say Rondo isn't actually a 30% FT shooter who improved himself to 60%?  Who's to say Dirk couldn't hit 90% if he doesn't practice for the next 20 years, or that Nash couldn't do the same if today was the first day he touched a basketball.

At least post an Air Bud video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE-iEVK_Yf0

[dtrader]

His jumpshot got better (hit one pretty much every night and he Paul Pierce faked Gaines last night). Not even 10 games into the season and already this. Jeez.

I dont think people are really upset about these few games.  It's the fact that he is so far continuing along the same course from last year and before.  So it gets increasingly hard to defend him using the "he's still improving" argument. 

I myself am concerned about what happens if he follows last years pattern, where he starts off well and slows down as the season progresses.  If what he's doing now (less assists, less steals, higher TOs, equally bad free throws), is the best he shows all season, thats not too good.

We are only 7 games into the season, he's had a couple of good games, one great game and a couple of bad games. Let's wait until we are 25-30 games in before we make this assumption!

Isn't this his 5th year? He has shown no improvement in his free throw shooting since he entered the league.  How long does it take to say, "I guess he isn't going to get better."

Let's see.. it took Kidd up until his 6th year to shoot 70% or better, and he didn't get to 80% until his 8th year in the league. So to say "I guess he isn't going to get better" would be a far stretch wouldn't you think?

I guess that leads to the question of whether Kidd's turnaround was the exception or the norm?  I'd tend to think the former.    So I don't think its necessarily a "far stretch" to say what vinnie is saying.

  I don't think it's really unusual for players to improve their shooting as they age, but that could be a case of players that don't improve not lasting into their 30s in the nba.

I was talking specifically about Jason Kidd.  How many players have improved roughly 13% at the free throw line over the course of their careers?

Can't imagine too many and, like I mentioned before, I think its more an exception than the norm.

  Again, I think it's far from rare. The question is whether their improvement was age based or experience based, as many of them (that I've seen) entered the league older than Rondo did.

Who are the "many" players that you've seen,  that improved their ft shooting like Kidd?  Maybe I'm just not remembering very well, but I can't think of many at all. I think it's extremely rare.

[csfansince60s]

His jumpshot got better (hit one pretty much every night and he Paul Pierce faked Gaines last night). Not even 10 games into the season and already this. Jeez.

I dont think people are really upset about these few games.  It's the fact that he is so far continuing along the same course from last year and before.  So it gets increasingly hard to defend him using the "he's still improving" argument. 

I myself am concerned about what happens if he follows last years pattern, where he starts off well and slows down as the season progresses.  If what he's doing now (less assists, less steals, higher TOs, equally bad free throws), is the best he shows all season, thats not too good.

We are only 7 games into the season, he's had a couple of good games, one great game and a couple of bad games. Let's wait until we are 25-30 games in before we make this assumption!

Isn't this his 5th year? He has shown no improvement in his free throw shooting since he entered the league.  How long does it take to say, "I guess he isn't going to get better."

Let's see.. it took Kidd up until his 6th year to shoot 70% or better, and he didn't get to 80% until his 8th year in the league. So to say "I guess he isn't going to get better" would be a far stretch wouldn't you think?

I guess that leads to the question of whether Kidd's turnaround was the exception or the norm?  I'd tend to think the former.    So I don't think its necessarily a "far stretch" to say what vinnie is saying.

  I don't think it's really unusual for players to improve their shooting as they age, but that could be a case of players that don't improve not lasting into their 30s in the nba.

I was talking specifically about Jason Kidd.  How many players have improved roughly 13% at the free throw line over the course of their careers?

Can't imagine too many and, like I mentioned before, I think its more an exception than the norm.

  Again, I think it's far from rare. The question is whether their improvement was age based or experience based, as many of them (that I've seen) entered the league older than Rondo did.

Who are the "many" players that you've seen,  that improved their ft shooting like Kidd?  Maybe I'm just not remembering very well, but I can't think of many at all. I think it's extremely rare.

Look no further than our Captain, Paul Pierce.

PP started out at 71% and improved to approx. 86%. From '06-11, he improved every year but 1.

I'm sure there are more.

Rondo has what golfers call the Yips. It's all in his head which leads to short circuits in nerve/muscle control for the specific act of free throw shooting. For golfers it's that similar small motion thing called putting.

Rondo has the Yips.

[kozlodoev]

Look no further than our Captain, Paul Pierce.

PP started out at 71% and improved to approx. 86%. From '06-11, he improved every year but 1.

And Rondo has regressed every single year, moving from 65% to 57% over the course of 5 seasons. He has regressed every year but one.

So, I guess we should expect him to threaten the immortal achievements of DeAndre Jordan and Andris Biedrins in a couple of seasons.

P.S. Also, "yips" refers to a "sudden loss of fine motor skills". Rondo hasn't "suddenly lost" anything -- he has never been a great, even good, free throw shooter to begin with.

[ms.ball]

Look no further than our Captain, Paul Pierce.

PP started out at 71% and improved to approx. 86%. From '06-11, he improved every year but 1.

And Rondo has regressed every single year, moving from 65% to 57% over the course of 5 seasons. He has regressed every year but one.

So, I guess we should expect him to threaten the immortal achievements of DeAndre Jordan and Andris Biedrins in a couple of season

P.S. Also, "yips" refers to a "sudden loss of fine motor skills". Rondo hasn't "suddenly lost" anything -- he has never been a great, even good, free throw shooter to begin with.

To be fair a lot of players regress from time to time.. Kidd did it, he turned out fine.  Chris Paul has also regressed going from 84% to 81% back up to 86% back down to 72%

I really don't see that as a factor to him not getting better!

[Eja117]

It's extremely frustrating and I don't accept it in the same way I never accepted careless 4th quarter interceptions by Brett Farve and the way Deion Sanders wouldn't tackle people.

There are 7th graders that work harder on their free throws and get better results. You'd think for 10mill a year Rondo would care.

Rondo's act is getting thin

And how do you know that Rondo doesn't practice? Please don't claim stuff and say it as fact. Your act is getting thin.

I suppose it's possible he practices long long hours and just purposely misses his free throws

  Or, much more likely, your claim that everyone can get to be a great ft shooter if they practice enough is wrong.

Ding!

we have a winner, although EJA will never admit it.

Yes, Free throw shooting is a skill you can improve on, just like every other skill.

No, despite EJA's assertions to the contrary, simple practice will not make anyone a 98% free throw shooter. You are limited by form and natural talent.

You can show all the trick video's you want, Ill take statistics. And unless you are here to tell me that, barring FOUR guys in the history of the league, no one ever thought "huh, you know what would be cool? shooting 95% from the line. i'm gonna practice till i can" I'll stick by that FT shooting is not as simple as you make out.

Rondo is an awful shooter. I would bet you any amount of money that you could lock him in a court for the next 2 years or more with nothing to do but shoot FT's 8 hours a day and his percentage would improve to 75%, at best. he just isn't a good shooter.

And since you have no idea what his practice routine involves i dismiss that point utterly. Outside of claiming he'd be a 90% shooter if he practiced and posting lame video's, you don't seem to have a point buried anywhere in your posts so...

Natural ability for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3mizckaBUE

[Eja117]

It's extremely frustrating and I don't accept it in the same way I never accepted careless 4th quarter interceptions by Brett Farve and the way Deion Sanders wouldn't tackle people.

There are 7th graders that work harder on their free throws and get better results. You'd think for 10mill a year Rondo would care.

Rondo's act is getting thin

And how do you know that Rondo doesn't practice? Please don't claim stuff and say it as fact. Your act is getting thin.

I suppose it's possible he practices long long hours and just purposely misses his free throws

  Or, much more likely, your claim that everyone can get to be a great ft shooter if they practice enough is wrong.

Ding!

we have a winner, although EJA will never admit it.

Yes, Free throw shooting is a skill you can improve on, just like every other skill.

No, despite EJA's assertions to the contrary, simple practice will not make anyone a 98% free throw shooter. You are limited by form and natural talent.

You can show all the trick video's you want, Ill take statistics. And unless you are here to tell me that, barring FOUR guys in the history of the league, no one ever thought "huh, you know what would be cool? shooting 95% from the line. i'm gonna practice till i can" I'll stick by that FT shooting is not as simple as you make out.

Rondo is an awful shooter. I would bet you any amount of money that you could lock him in a court for the next 2 years or more with nothing to do but shoot FT's 8 hours a day and his percentage would improve to 75%, at best. he just isn't a good shooter.

And since you have no idea what his practice routine involves i dismiss that point utterly. Outside of claiming he'd be a 90% shooter if he practiced and posting lame video's, you don't seem to have a point buried anywhere in your posts so...

Natural ability.  Practice had nothing to do with it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzYh4CGAbCU

[Eja117]

It's extremely frustrating and I don't accept it in the same way I never accepted careless 4th quarter interceptions by Brett Farve and the way Deion Sanders wouldn't tackle people.

There are 7th graders that work harder on their free throws and get better results. You'd think for 10mill a year Rondo would care.

Rondo's act is getting thin

And how do you know that Rondo doesn't practice? Please don't claim stuff and say it as fact. Your act is getting thin.

I suppose it's possible he practices long long hours and just purposely misses his free throws

  Or, much more likely, your claim that everyone can get to be a great ft shooter if they practice enough is wrong.

Ding!

we have a winner, although EJA will never admit it.

Yes, Free throw shooting is a skill you can improve on, just like every other skill.

No, despite EJA's assertions to the contrary, simple practice will not make anyone a 98% free throw shooter. You are limited by form and natural talent.

You can show all the trick video's you want, Ill take statistics. And unless you are here to tell me that, barring FOUR guys in the history of the league, no one ever thought "huh, you know what would be cool? shooting 95% from the line. i'm gonna practice till i can" I'll stick by that FT shooting is not as simple as you make out.

Rondo is an awful shooter. I would bet you any amount of money that you could lock him in a court for the next 2 years or more with nothing to do but shoot FT's 8 hours a day and his percentage would improve to 75%, at best. he just isn't a good shooter.

And since you have no idea what his practice routine involves i dismiss that point utterly. Outside of claiming he'd be a 90% shooter if he practiced and posting lame video's, you don't seem to have a point buried anywhere in your posts so...

This is how wheelchair guys practice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Jkb-mlBK4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI


Words of another great shooter

[Eja117]

Any age can improve with practice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8w8JUEo1pI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inGaozDUPUA

[BballTim]

  There's about 300M people in the country, and you're proving your point with youtube videos of a few people at a time?

  This might take a while...

[Eja117]

  There's about 300M people in the country, and you're proving your point with youtube videos of a few people at a time?

  This might take a while...

Perhaps at this point instead of me trying to prove that anyone from toddlers, to blindfolded people, to people in wheelchairs, to 60 year olds hitting 209 free throws in a row, to animals can hit free throws with proper practice, maybe now you should try to prove that no matter how much he practices Rondo can't improve his free throw shooting and that I should just accept that.

[LB3533]

  There's about 300M people in the country, and you're proving your point with youtube videos of a few people at a time?

  This might take a while...

Perhaps at this point instead of me trying to prove that anyone from toddlers, to blindfolded people, to people in wheelchairs, to 60 year olds hitting 209 free throws in a row, to animals can hit free throws with proper practice, maybe now you should try to prove that no matter how much he practices Rondo can't improve his free throw shooting and that I should just accept that.

Practice is one thing, performing at the line in real competitive games and sell out crowds is another.

There is definitely a combination of natural talent and practice upon that talent.