Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?

[Greenbean]

Okay so let's say as a "precaution" O'Neal is out again on Wednesday and Steimsma has another solid starting performance, when O'Neal returns Friday what happens to Steimsma?

Does he continue to start?

Does he go to the bench and get the nod as the backup and does Doc make Wilcox earn the minutes over Steimsma?

Or is he relegated to third string once again even though he may have shown to be more in tune with what the C's need and playing more consistently productive basketball than the two veterans in front of him?

Unless they pick up another big....Steimsma will get plenty of opportunities.....As we'll go back to standard procedure on O'Neal....Where Rivers plays O'Neal as a precaution.....Whenever O'Neal feels like playing.

So, our head trainer telling JO he shouldn't play means that JO only plays when he feels like?

Smells like Spin.

JO took himslf out of the game Sunday night.

He's the kind of guy who cant play with nagging injuries. There are alot of guys like that. The problem is he always has nagging injuries.

  I don't know that it's a given that JO took himself out of the game on Sunday. I've heard Doc say many times that when a player's coming back from injury he doesn't talk to the player about whether they're ready or not, he talks to the trainers.

You may be right...I just have a personal feeling about JO and his attitude towards injuries. I will try to keep it internal from now on because I am just speculating!

[LarBrd33]

couple good games.  No big deal.  He was even a bum in College averaging like 11 minutes.  In the D-League he won 2010 Defensive player of the year, but the guy averaged like 8 points, 7 rebounds and 3.5 blocks... I expect him to have a Scalabrine-esque career at most.  The Timberwolves and Cavs already gave up on him.

I imagine his early success has something to do with him being a complete unknown and players not expecting him to have some blocking ability.  They probably also don't expect him to be able to hit open shots.  They probably assume he's some stiff who they can dunk over.  They probably assume his range ends beyond 2 feet.  Right now he's benefiting from being a nobody.  

I have a feeling when teams become familiar with him, his success will end.  There have been countless examples of this.  For instance... I specifically remember in 2004 when we finally gave minutes to scrub Brandon Hunter:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huntebr01/gamelog/2004/

Game 1:  35 minutes 17 points, 9 rebounds
Game 2:  34 minutes 11 points, 16 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal
Game 3:  33 minutes 10 points, 4 rebounds
Game 4:  27 minutes 7 points, 12 rebounds, 1 steal

Around this time people there were threads like this popping up on Celtic forums... declaring Brandon Hunter to be the next Charles Barkley.  He was out of the league a year later after playing a total of 67 games.... and I imagine Stiemsma will too.  

[Greenbean]

couple good games.  No big deal.  He was even a bum in College averaging like 11 minutes.  In the D-League he won 2010 Defensive player of the year, but the guy averaged like 8 points, 7 rebounds and 3.5 blocks... I expect him to have a Scalabrine-esque career at most.  The Timberwolves and Cavs already gave up on him.

Yeah because a basketball player has never improved in his mid 20's right?

No team gave Kurt Warner a chance for 5 years.

Tom Brady was taken in the 6th round.

These are the kinds of stories that make sports fascinating. You are among millions that probably think someone like Greg Steimsma is a bum.


The guy can block shots at an elite level. Scal could never do anything at an elite level. If he turns out to be a nobody, then Ill be glad to be wrong.

[LarBrd33]

The guy can block shots at an elite level. Scal could never do anything at an elite level. If he turns out to be a nobody, then Ill be glad to be wrong.

If he turns out to be a somebody, then I'll be glad to be wrong.

But seems highly improbable.  He'll be out of the league within 2 years.   

[Finkelskyhook]

Okay so let's say as a "precaution" O'Neal is out again on Wednesday and Steimsma has another solid starting performance, when O'Neal returns Friday what happens to Steimsma?

Does he continue to start?

Does he go to the bench and get the nod as the backup and does Doc make Wilcox earn the minutes over Steimsma?

Or is he relegated to third string once again even though he may have shown to be more in tune with what the C's need and playing more consistently productive basketball than the two veterans in front of him?

Unless they pick up another big....Steimsma will get plenty of opportunities.....As we'll go back to standard procedure on O'Neal....Where Rivers plays O'Neal as a precaution.....Whenever O'Neal feels like playing.

So, our head trainer telling JO he shouldn't play means that JO only plays when he feels like?

No...His history makes it patently obvious that he plays when he feels like it.

[Potapenko Boxout]

I have a feeling when teams become familiar with him, his success will end.  There have been countless examples of this.  For instance... I specifically remember in 2004 when we finally gave minutes to scrub Brandon Hunter:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huntebr01/gamelog/2004/

you hold your tongue when speaking about Brandon Hunter!

[Greenbean]

The guy can block shots at an elite level. Scal could never do anything at an elite level. If he turns out to be a nobody, then Ill be glad to be wrong.

If he turns out to be a somebody, then I'll be glad to be wrong.

But seems highly improbable.  He'll be out of the league within 2 years.  

You say you would be glad to be wrong then deadpan that he'll be out of the league in 2 years with certainty. Like it's fact. Like you want it to happen.

It's not even worth debating you on this especially if youre only going to cite his college and D-League stats.

If you go thru this thread, you will see how I feel about the guy. I'm not sold yet but I think he has a chance to be a rotation player. based on what we have seen I dont kow how you can be so sure he wont be, just like I cant be so sure he will be.

[nickagneta]

couple good games.  No big deal.  He was even a bum in College averaging like 11 minutes.  In the D-League he won 2010 Defensive player of the year, but the guy averaged like 8 points, 7 rebounds and 3.5 blocks... I expect him to have a Scalabrine-esque career at most.  The Timberwolves and Cavs already gave up on him.

I imagine his early success has something to do with him being a complete unknown and players not expecting him to have some blocking ability.  They probably also don't expect him to be able to hit open shots.  They probably assume he's some stiff who they can dunk over.  They probably assume his range ends beyond 2 feet.  Right now he's benefiting from being a nobody.  

I have a feeling when teams become familiar with him, his success will end.  There have been countless examples of this.  For instance... I specifically remember in 2004 when we finally gave minutes to scrub Brandon Hunter:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huntebr01/gamelog/2004/

Game 1:  35 minutes 17 points, 9 rebounds
Game 2:  34 minutes 11 points, 16 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal
Game 3:  33 minutes 10 points, 4 rebounds
Game 4:  27 minutes 7 points, 12 rebounds, 1 steal

Around this time people there were threads like this popping up on Celtic forums... declaring Brandon Hunter to be the next Charles Barkley.  He was out of the league a year later after playing a total of 67 games.... and I imagine Stiemsma will too.  

You could be right. Not saying you aren't. But Hunter was an undersized PF. He also came straight to the league after 4 years of college, where he was basically the man.

Steimsma is a true 7 footer who was basically never used or developed in college. His coaches didn't even try to take advantage of his size other than to set screens because Wisconsin was such a guard oriented program.

But Steimsma went to Europe, worked on his body and his game, matured it in the NBDL and has become more than he ever was in college. Mentally and physically he is a different player than the one that came out of college with real pro size and gifts.

Hunter was undersized and had already maxed out his physique and his playing abilities because he was properly developed in college. I think Steimsma is a different animal and could actually have some more growing room as a player.

Or I could be all wrong and you could be 100% right. Time will tell.

[LarBrd33]

The guy can block shots at an elite level. Scal could never do anything at an elite level. If he turns out to be a nobody, then Ill be glad to be wrong.

If he turns out to be a somebody, then I'll be glad to be wrong.

But seems highly improbable.  He'll be out of the league within 2 years.  

You say you would be glad to be wrong then deadpan that he'll be out of the league in 2 years with certainty. Like it's fact. Like you want it to happen.

It's not even worth debating you on this especially if youre only going to cite his college and D-League stats.

If you go thru this thread, you will see how I feel about the guy. I'm not sold yet but I think he has a chance to be a rotation player. based on what we have seen I dont kow how you can be so sure he wont be, just like I cant be so sure he will be.

I would LOVE for Stiemsma to be a diamond in the rough.  I'm not counting on it, though.

He's getting minutes because there is nobody else on our pathetic bench to give the minutes to.

Last year when Krstik first showed up, he looked like a hall of famer "Kid's a stah... way bettah than Perk!".  Even Semih Erden looked capable when you look at the games he played over 25 minutes in (double digit scoring... 7-8 rebounds)

If Stiemsma was "the real deal" he would have shown more by now.  It's not like I'm rooting for him to fail... I'm just being realistic.  He might rattle off a few more games, get everyone up into a frenzy... and then completely disappear for the rest of his career.  You see it happen with guards often too... Dajuan Wagner averaged like 30 points for his first 5 NBA games... Brandon Jennings had Bucks fans (and some Celtic fans) declaring with certainty he was a top 3 player after a week of hot shooting... check out Flip Murray's game-log from the first 25 games of 03-04 when he filled in for an injured Ray Allen on the Sonics:  http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murraro01/gamelog/2004/ ... Imagine the mindset of Sonic fans when that happened...

This is child's play compared to that.  Stiemsma got a couple blocks against three of the worst teams in the NBA (Hornets, Pistons and Wizards).  I mean, frankly, I'm not even convinced this Celtic team makes the playoffs unless they do something about the center position...  Another injury to Pierce and this might be a lotto team.  We lost to a crappy Knicks team, got crushed by a Heat team and a pathetic Hornets team... and beat the Pistons and Wizards.  Frankly, I'm still worried.

[Tai]

Okay so let's say as a "precaution" O'Neal is out again on Wednesday and Steimsma has another solid starting performance, when O'Neal returns Friday what happens to Steimsma?

Does he continue to start?

Does he go to the bench and get the nod as the backup and does Doc make Wilcox earn the minutes over Steimsma?

Or is he relegated to third string once again even though he may have shown to be more in tune with what the C's need and playing more consistently productive basketball than the two veterans in front of him?

Unless they pick up another big....Steimsma will get plenty of opportunities.....As we'll go back to standard procedure on O'Neal....Where Rivers plays O'Neal as a precaution.....Whenever O'Neal feels like playing.

So, our head trainer telling JO he shouldn't play means that JO only plays when he feels like?

Smells like Spin.

JO took himslf out of the game Sunday night.

He's the kind of guy who cant play with nagging injuries. There are alot of guys like that. The problem is he always has nagging injuries.

On a team with Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Rajon Rondo, he must not get too much respect in that locker room.

Can I assume he took himself out cause of the hamstring?

Also, who exactly do you think is spinning this? JO? Doc?

Doc...going out of his way to indicate it was not JO's decision.

There is a track record with this guy. Im sorry for speculating...what I am saying is not fact, just my opinion I might be worng!

He doesnt play through anything at all. Look at his games played numbers for his career. Then realize that he has never had a major leg injury. No torn ligaments, no microfracture...
 

1. What's this "track record"? Last season? I'll be blunt on this point, as to not "imply" one thing or another; I just think you don't like him, so you're the one using spin with this.

2. CONSIDERING last season, If Doc was infact told not by JO, but a TRAINER, that JO shouldn't play, why should Doc ignore that and play him anyways, and risk JO being out for a longer period of time JUST LIKE LAST SEASON?! I'll be slightly insulted if you claim Doc lied about what Ed told him.

[Fafnir]

This is child's play compared to that.  Stiemsma got a couple blocks against three of the worst teams in the NBA (Hornets, Pistons and Wizards).  I mean, frankly, I'm not even convinced this Celtic team makes the playoffs unless they do something about the center position...  Another injury to Pierce and this might be a lotto team.  We lost to a crappy Knicks team, got crushed by a Heat team and a pathetic Hornets team... and beat the Pistons and Wizards.  Frankly, I'm still worried.

Yikes, you're not optimistic.

For the record if we got crushed by the Heat, then we crushed the Wizards both times we played them. Exact same margin after all....

The game that was most troubling for me was the Hornets game because we got blown out, but given that it was a back to back on the road I feel that you can rationalize it away if you're optimistic.

I also don't think the Knicks team is as bad as you seem to, though they are very shallow when it comes to depth.

[TheTruthFot18]

he also got those shots on bad teams because thats when JO and or Wilcox were out. Although I'm not saying its for sure, I hope he is a steal.

Anyway, in comparison to Perk, he is an upgrade in most areas: Offense, Outside shooting, free throws, blocks, (made a few god passes yesterday), and finishing. His real downside is post d which is kinda like McGee. If he cant block it, just gets passed by a wall, rose, lebron. But, what he lacks in that defense, he makes up for big time in the areas stated above.

But lets just see how he does over a bigger time frame.

[Finkelskyhook]

If Stiemsma was "the real deal" he would have shown more by now.  

lol.  

ITS 6 GAMES.  Would you be happier if he averaged 30/15/6/6 ?

Geez.  He's a significant contributer.  That's a huge surprise.  He'll be better as he learns his new teammates.  Stiemsma's clearly not afraid to work.

[mmmmm]

Where is this myth that Stiemsma is a poor rebounder coming from?  

Who mentioned it though others have been concerned based on what we've seen in a C's uniform. I'd include myself among those skeptics because of the subjective eye test of his minutes.

 In 2009-2010 in 45 games he averaged 9.2 rebounds per 36 minutes (7.4 defensive) and posted a DRB% of 25.1, which is awesome.  

You have to remember that the D-League is often a faster paced game and also against lesser competition.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/nbdl/players/o/obryapa01d.html

Patrick O'Bryant was a below average rebounder in the NBA. Yet in the D-League he was an even better rebounder than Stiemsma, putting up better rebounding rate and reb/36 for a slower paced team.

So basically, there is nothing to base this assessment on other than your subjective eye test and a qualitative dismissal of the D-League based on the the 'representative sample' of Patrick O'Brien.

I am sorry, but I don't have a lot of faith in the 'subjective eye test' of anonymous internet bloggers.  That's not a reflection on you, Fafnir.  It's just not anything I can assign any value to.

And a one player sample of failure to translate between the D-League and the NBA is hardly evidence of a trend.   There are zillions of players who failed to translate their skills from the NCAA to the NBA - many drafted in the 1st round.  That doesn't mean we dismiss that data.

If a player showed _failure_ to succeed at these lower levels, that would be actual evidence of potential coming failure at the NBA level.  Having shown _success_ at the lower levels is of course no guarantee of success at the NBA. But you can't in any way say that success at the lower levels implies failure at the higher level.

So far, at the D-League level, Stiemsma has been a good rebounder.  That's all you can say from that.

So far, in a tiny, tiny sample at the NBA level, Stiemsma has also been a good rebounder.

Again - Stiemsma may indeed turn out to be a 'poor rebounder' or whatever in the NBA.  And if he does, that would be an additional indictment of the D-League.  But as of this moment there is NO evidence that he is NOT a decent rebounder and there is SOME evidence to suggest that he IS a decent rebounder.

That's about all we can say until we can see more of him.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Well, he is solid...and this lets KG play his natural position...he can only get better..and JO..is....hurt already...so..play the man...!