Author Topic: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?  (Read 41931 times)

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Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #165 on: January 04, 2012, 03:35:45 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Wisconsin's offense was completely guard-oriented and all they ever used bigs like Stiemsma for were for screens and rebounds.  Thus his college experience was really poor prep for the NBA.  That doesn't in any way prove he would not have been better prepped if he'd gone to some place else.   It only establishes that at that time he was not.



I don't really buy this.  I know nothing of Wisconsin from when he played there... this just sounds like a really lame excuse.  Even in a guard-oriented system, you think there would be more than 10 minutes a game available for 6-11 260 pound stiff... especially if they needed rebounds/screens.  You telling me he lost his minutes at the center position to another guard?  Nah... he just wasn't very good.

Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #166 on: January 04, 2012, 04:02:07 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Wisconsin's offense was completely guard-oriented and all they ever used bigs like Stiemsma for were for screens and rebounds.  Thus his college experience was really poor prep for the NBA.  That doesn't in any way prove he would not have been better prepped if he'd gone to some place else.   It only establishes that at that time he was not.



I don't really buy this.  I know nothing of Wisconsin from when he played there... this just sounds like a really lame excuse.  Even in a guard-oriented system, you think there would be more than 10 minutes a game available for 6-11 260 pound stiff... especially if they needed rebounds/screens.  You telling me he lost his minutes at the center position to another guard?  Nah... he just wasn't very good.
Tim Welsh, former head coach at Providence college, was mentioning exactly what was said regarding Wisconsin and Steimsma's usage there. Given Welsh's knowledge of the college game, I would take his word on it.

Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #167 on: January 04, 2012, 06:53:47 AM »

Offline Greenbean

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Okay so let's say as a "precaution" O'Neal is out again on Wednesday and Steimsma has another solid starting performance, when O'Neal returns Friday what happens to Steimsma?

Does he continue to start?

Does he go to the bench and get the nod as the backup and does Doc make Wilcox earn the minutes over Steimsma?

Or is he relegated to third string once again even though he may have shown to be more in tune with what the C's need and playing more consistently productive basketball than the two veterans in front of him?

Unless they pick up another big....Steimsma will get plenty of opportunities.....As we'll go back to standard procedure on O'Neal....Where Rivers plays O'Neal as a precaution.....Whenever O'Neal feels like playing.

So, our head trainer telling JO he shouldn't play means that JO only plays when he feels like?

Smells like Spin.

JO took himslf out of the game Sunday night.

He's the kind of guy who cant play with nagging injuries. There are alot of guys like that. The problem is he always has nagging injuries.

On a team with Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Rajon Rondo, he must not get too much respect in that locker room.

Can I assume he took himself out cause of the hamstring?

Also, who exactly do you think is spinning this? JO? Doc?

Doc...going out of his way to indicate it was not JO's decision.

There is a track record with this guy. Im sorry for speculating...what I am saying is not fact, just my opinion I might be worng!

He doesnt play through anything at all. Look at his games played numbers for his career. Then realize that he has never had a major leg injury. No torn ligaments, no microfracture...
 

1. What's this "track record"? Last season? I'll be blunt on this point, as to not "imply" one thing or another; I just think you don't like him, so you're the one using spin with this.

2. CONSIDERING last season, If Doc was infact told not by JO, but a TRAINER, that JO shouldn't play, why should Doc ignore that and play him anyways, and risk JO being out for a longer period of time JUST LIKE LAST SEASON?! I'll be slightly insulted if you claim Doc lied about what Ed told him.

I said in another post I don't like him and that ii was speculating...not fact, just my opinion. Like in myopininion Doc lies thru his teeth to protect his players from the Boston media.  Its an aadmirable quality in my opinion. Doc is literally the best players coach I have ever seen. Tito francona lasted 8 years in boston with that one single skill. Why would you be insulted? You didn't lie.

Also, if you don't know abouut jo and his injury track record, google it. The guy misses huge chunks of regular seasons with minor injuries every. Single. Year.

I made a mistake by saying something as fact that was only my speculation but you should brush up on jermaine oneals injury history and you might start feeling the same way that I do.

Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #168 on: January 04, 2012, 07:22:14 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Okay so let's say as a "precaution" O'Neal is out again on Wednesday and Steimsma has another solid starting performance, when O'Neal returns Friday what happens to Steimsma?

Does he continue to start?

Does he go to the bench and get the nod as the backup and does Doc make Wilcox earn the minutes over Steimsma?

Or is he relegated to third string once again even though he may have shown to be more in tune with what the C's need and playing more consistently productive basketball than the two veterans in front of him?

Unless they pick up another big....Steimsma will get plenty of opportunities.....As we'll go back to standard procedure on O'Neal....Where Rivers plays O'Neal as a precaution.....Whenever O'Neal feels like playing.

So, our head trainer telling JO he shouldn't play means that JO only plays when he feels like?

Smells like Spin.

JO took himslf out of the game Sunday night.

He's the kind of guy who cant play with nagging injuries. There are alot of guys like that. The problem is he always has nagging injuries.

On a team with Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Rajon Rondo, he must not get too much respect in that locker room.

Can I assume he took himself out cause of the hamstring?

Also, who exactly do you think is spinning this? JO? Doc?

Doc...going out of his way to indicate it was not JO's decision.

There is a track record with this guy. Im sorry for speculating...what I am saying is not fact, just my opinion I might be worng!

He doesnt play through anything at all. Look at his games played numbers for his career. Then realize that he has never had a major leg injury. No torn ligaments, no microfracture...
 

1. What's this "track record"? Last season? I'll be blunt on this point, as to not "imply" one thing or another; I just think you don't like him, so you're the one using spin with this.

2. CONSIDERING last season, If Doc was infact told not by JO, but a TRAINER, that JO shouldn't play, why should Doc ignore that and play him anyways, and risk JO being out for a longer period of time JUST LIKE LAST SEASON?! I'll be slightly insulted if you claim Doc lied about what Ed told him.

I said in another post I don't like him and that ii was speculating...not fact, just my opinion. Like in myopininion Doc lies thru his teeth to protect his players from the Boston media.  Its an aadmirable quality in my opinion. Doc is literally the best players coach I have ever seen. Tito francona lasted 8 years in boston with that one single skill. Why would you be insulted? You didn't lie.

Also, if you don't know abouut jo and his injury track record, google it. The guy misses huge chunks of regular seasons with minor injuries every. Single. Year.

I made a mistake by saying something as fact that was only my speculation but you should brush up on jermaine oneals injury history and you might start feeling the same way that I do.
This is another subject touched upon by Mike felger and Tim Welsh on Comcast after the Wiz-Celts game the other night. Felger, as is his usual schtick, was lambasting O'Neal, as he pretty much lambasts every player, coach and team in this town. He was saying that JO misses time with minor injuries, is just cashing checks, doesn't care about winning or losing, and only cares about putting up enough numbers to get some sucker of a GM to give him another contract so he can continue his cycle of cashing checks and not playing.

Welsh, spoke like he knew some of the players in the Celtics locker room and said that JO had little respect from his team mates because of what he pulled last year in not playing through what they considered a minor injury. He said that JO missing more time due to another minor injury didn't surprise his team mates and that they weren't expecting much from JO this year because of the way the perceive JO to be.

Now Felger just hates everyone and will say stuff just to rile up the fan base. Its what he seemingly does for a living. But I found it interesting that Welsh, a former head basketball coach and pretty knowledgeable basketball guy, was agreeing with Felger and expounding on the point. If Welsh is to be believed, the Celtics players aren't expecting much from O'Neal which means they might be hoping to hell that Steimsma tuns out to be the real deal because they realize he is their only hope for a real center being on this team playing extended minutes besides KG, who doesn't want to play center.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 07:55:02 AM by nickagneta »

Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #169 on: January 04, 2012, 07:51:38 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Wisconsin often pounds it inside.  They are a tough big ten team that is real physical.  While they have had some good guards I would hardly say that they are guard orientated LarBrd33.  I lived 40 years in the Big Ten conference.

Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #170 on: January 04, 2012, 08:13:59 AM »

Offline clover

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Oops, sorry, was trying to extract and respond to just this quote from nickagneta, without all the embedded quotes too.  Here's nick:

"This is another subject touched upon by Mike felger and Tim Welsh on Comcast after the Wiz-Celts game the other night. Felger, as is his usual schtick, was lambasting O'Neal, as he pretty much lambasts every player, coach and team in this town. He was saying that JO misses time with minor injuries, is just cashing checks, doesn't care about winning or losing, and only cares about putting up enough numbers to get some sucker of a GM to give him another contract so he can continue his cycle of cashing checks and not playing.

Welsh, spoke like he knew some of the players in the Celtics locker room and said that JO had little respect from his team mates because of what he pulled last year in not playing through what they considered a minor injury. He said that JO missing more time due to another minor injury didn't surprise his team mates and that they weren't expecting much from JO this year because of the way the perceive JO to be.

Now Felger just hates everyone and will say stuff just to rile up the fan base. Its what he seemingly does for a living. But I found it interesting that Welsh, a former head basketball coach and pretty knowledgeable basketball guy, was agreeing with Felger and expounding on the point. If Welsh is to be believed, the Celtics players aren't expecting much from O'Neal which means they might be hoping to hell that Steimsma tuns out to be the real deal because they realize he is their only hope for a real center being on this team playing extended minutes besides KG, who doesn't want to play center."

Here's my response:

Interesting.  That might contribute to how very hard the vets have been rooting for Stiemer, trying to get him offensive plays during games, etc..  They might see him as potentially a better solution to JO's unreliability than what they expect Danny to be able to come up with mid-season.  
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 10:31:24 AM by clover »

Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #171 on: January 04, 2012, 08:46:14 AM »

Offline Greenbean

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The guy can block shots at an elite level. Scal could never do anything at an elite level. If he turns out to be a nobody, then Ill be glad to be wrong.
If he turns out to be a somebody, then I'll be glad to be wrong.

But seems highly improbable.  He'll be out of the league within 2 years.  

You say you would be glad to be wrong then deadpan that he'll be out of the league in 2 years with certainty. Like it's fact. Like you want it to happen.

It's not even worth debating you on this especially if youre only going to cite his college and D-League stats.

If you go thru this thread, you will see how I feel about the guy. I'm not sold yet but I think he has a chance to be a rotation player. based on what we have seen I dont kow how you can be so sure he wont be, just like I cant be so sure he will be.
I would LOVE for Stiemsma to be a diamond in the rough.  I'm not counting on it, though.

He's getting minutes because there is nobody else on our pathetic bench to give the minutes to.

Last year when Krstik first showed up, he looked like a hall of famer "Kid's a stah... way bettah than Perk!".  Even Semih Erden looked capable when you look at the games he played over 25 minutes in (double digit scoring... 7-8 rebounds)

If Stiemsma was "the real deal" he would have shown more by now.  It's not like I'm rooting for him to fail... I'm just being realistic.  He might rattle off a few more games, get everyone up into a frenzy... and then completely disappear for the rest of his career.  You see it happen with guards often too... Dajuan Wagner averaged like 30 points for his first 5 NBA games... Brandon Jennings had Bucks fans (and some Celtic fans) declaring with certainty he was a top 3 player after a week of hot shooting... check out Flip Murray's game-log from the first 25 games of 03-04 when he filled in for an injured Ray Allen on the Sonics:  http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murraro01/gamelog/2004/ ... Imagine the mindset of Sonic fans when that happened...

This is child's play compared to that.  Stiemsma got a couple blocks against three of the worst teams in the NBA (Hornets, Pistons and Wizards).  I mean, frankly, I'm not even convinced this Celtic team makes the playoffs unless they do something about the center position...  Another injury to Pierce and this might be a lotto team.  We lost to a crappy Knicks team, got crushed by a Heat team and a pathetic Hornets team... and beat the Pistons and Wizards.  Frankly, I'm still worried.

Hey you might be right. I mean I dont have huge expectations for the kid. At best he can be a backup center. A guy in the rotation who can block shots and knock down open jumpers. Right now he seems like a below average rebounder for his size and if he cannot show improvement there, I dont think he should be in the rotation unless JO continues to sit... and that is a still a diamond in the rough and a good sports story!

Believe me Bird, I am worried too considering how fragile the state of this team is is one of the big 4 goes down. That being said, Steimer has been a highlight so far.


If there is any reason to keep him around it is to play Miami whjere we can employ a zone and he can disrupt the driving lanes of Bron and Wade.

Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #172 on: January 04, 2012, 12:20:26 PM »

Offline Tai

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Okay so let's say as a "precaution" O'Neal is out again on Wednesday and Steimsma has another solid starting performance, when O'Neal returns Friday what happens to Steimsma?

Does he continue to start?

Does he go to the bench and get the nod as the backup and does Doc make Wilcox earn the minutes over Steimsma?

Or is he relegated to third string once again even though he may have shown to be more in tune with what the C's need and playing more consistently productive basketball than the two veterans in front of him?

Unless they pick up another big....Steimsma will get plenty of opportunities.....As we'll go back to standard procedure on O'Neal....Where Rivers plays O'Neal as a precaution.....Whenever O'Neal feels like playing.

So, our head trainer telling JO he shouldn't play means that JO only plays when he feels like?

Smells like Spin.

JO took himslf out of the game Sunday night.

He's the kind of guy who cant play with nagging injuries. There are alot of guys like that. The problem is he always has nagging injuries.

On a team with Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Rajon Rondo, he must not get too much respect in that locker room.

Can I assume he took himself out cause of the hamstring?

Also, who exactly do you think is spinning this? JO? Doc?

Doc...going out of his way to indicate it was not JO's decision.

There is a track record with this guy. Im sorry for speculating...what I am saying is not fact, just my opinion I might be worng!

He doesnt play through anything at all. Look at his games played numbers for his career. Then realize that he has never had a major leg injury. No torn ligaments, no microfracture...
 

1. What's this "track record"? Last season? I'll be blunt on this point, as to not "imply" one thing or another; I just think you don't like him, so you're the one using spin with this.

2. CONSIDERING last season, If Doc was infact told not by JO, but a TRAINER, that JO shouldn't play, why should Doc ignore that and play him anyways, and risk JO being out for a longer period of time JUST LIKE LAST SEASON?! I'll be slightly insulted if you claim Doc lied about what Ed told him.

I said in another post I don't like him and that ii was speculating...not fact, just my opinion. Like in myopininion Doc lies thru his teeth to protect his players from the Boston media.  Its an aadmirable quality in my opinion. Doc is literally the best players coach I have ever seen. Tito francona lasted 8 years in boston with that one single skill. Why would you be insulted? You didn't lie.

Also, if you don't know abouut jo and his injury track record, google it. The guy misses huge chunks of regular seasons with minor injuries every. Single. Year.

I made a mistake by saying something as fact that was only my speculation but you should brush up on jermaine oneals injury history and you might start feeling the same way that I do.

I notice that most of his injuries seem to be related to his leg, and more so his knee. Only last year did it seem like he was having wrist problems. It seems he even tore his meniscus and played through it for a while...

http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=6614

Is that really a minor injury? Hmm, well whatever.

Here's my problem. It's one thing to tell me that JO is brittle. That might just be true. It's not an uncommon thing for brittle guys to get injured. Oh well. But, you're going out of your way to say JO is actually sitting out games cause he just doesn't feel like playing based on these injuries. There's a difference.

Maybe it's like someone here who was also harping on JO last season said; this isn't Miami, this isn't Toronto, this isn't Minnesota, and so forth. This is Boston, and fans here simply care more; that's where he was going with that, and I do agree. So, maybe players on average are given a harder time by the fans over their injuries than they would in another city. That's fine. In a way, I respect that.

But that also to me, in a way, includes guys on our local channels, NESN and CSNNE. That does include guys like Felger and Welsh. Do they have the inside info that infact confirms JO isn't respected by his peers, or are they just in reality sharing opinions like you and Finkel that JO's being a wimp/just dogging it? People seemed to say the same thing about Donny with Rondo, from claiming he had sources saying Danny still wanted to trade Rondo, to the idea that Rondo may have worn out his welcome cause of his attitude. They said Donny simply didn't like Rondo, and wanted to make himself seem more credible than he really is, or what have you. Felger and Welsh may or may not be thought differently in Boston by fans, but do they have anymore inside info than Donny?

I also think, like nickagenta touched on, that people want to push on JO a bit because they feel Stiemsma may infact be more effective, so they wanna hype him up, and hype JO down. Say that Stiemsma will be more reliable, and that JO will just go down with injury again, anyways. Pretty much, that people want to push JO outta town.

I understand Danny almost traded JO for David West. I woulda been great with that. Maybe JO does have half a foot outta Boston, based on his age and his injury history. But while he's here, he's better than most centers out there in a league where most of the great centers are retired, like Shaq.

I don't like the idea that's being downplayed cause JO had to miss one game as a precaution.

Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #173 on: January 04, 2012, 12:43:10 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Wisconsin's offense was completely guard-oriented and all they ever used bigs like Stiemsma for were for screens and rebounds.  Thus his college experience was really poor prep for the NBA.  That doesn't in any way prove he would not have been better prepped if he'd gone to some place else.   It only establishes that at that time he was not.



I don't really buy this.  I know nothing of Wisconsin from when he played there... this just sounds like a really lame excuse.  Even in a guard-oriented system, you think there would be more than 10 minutes a game available for 6-11 260 pound stiff... especially if they needed rebounds/screens.  You telling me he lost his minutes at the center position to another guard?  Nah... he just wasn't very good.
Maybe he wasn't very good in college, and there's nothing wrong with that. He's 26 now and college was quite a while ago for him.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #174 on: January 04, 2012, 10:05:16 PM »

Offline Chief

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Just for the record, our boy got the Doc treatment tonight. Very sad.
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
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Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #175 on: January 04, 2012, 10:08:37 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Just for the record, our boy got the Doc treatment tonight. Very sad.

I don't think so, I think it was more of Doc giving 4 bigs some playing time.

Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #176 on: January 04, 2012, 10:51:09 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Just for the record, our boy got the Doc treatment tonight. Very sad.
Doc put in Stiemsma as the first man off the bench for O'Neal in the first half. He got a good 5-6 minutes run there and Wilcox only got in in the first half after O'Neal got into late first half foul trouble and Stiemsma had 2 PFs already.

Wilcox got the time in the second half.

I think Doc used the players this way to say that Stiemsma had earned the right to be the first center off the bench with his recent play but that he also wants to make sure Wilcox gets some minutes in.

I thought did a fabulous job handing out minutes tonight and really this whole year so far.

Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #177 on: January 04, 2012, 10:55:15 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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the way danny not doc is playin our players danny is bout to make a big move...

Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #178 on: January 04, 2012, 10:57:03 PM »

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the way danny not doc is playin our players danny is bout to make a big move...
Hmmm... that scares me, but also gets me excited. How 'bout you Bass?

Re: Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?
« Reply #179 on: January 04, 2012, 10:58:24 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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the way danny not doc is playin our players danny is bout to make a big move...
Hmmm... that scares me, but also gets me excited. How 'bout you Bass?


takes more than possible trades to get me excited