Author Topic: Is KG Done?  (Read 43613 times)

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Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2011, 12:39:23 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Done in terms of being an all-star or a guy you should rely on to score. He's an above average starting PF. 14/8 is what you should expect from him on a nightly basis. Of the big 3 I think Pierce is the only who would still qualify as an all-star, but I think that might be a stretch too.
I'll pray for rust and say 16 and 9....but in a season like this with so many back to backs it might be lower

Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2011, 12:43:14 PM »

Offline Junkyard Dawg

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Quote
Quote from: Fafnir on Today at 11:24:25 am
Quote from: CelticG1 on Today at 11:22:55 am
He was one of the best defenders in the league last year. I have a hard time believing hes done. I actually thought he looked pretty good against the knicks. Other games not so much. Id be pretty surprised if he wasnt a top defender at PF 14-15 a game on 50% shooting
That's my big worry actually, that he can no longer recover physically from playing basketball from night to night like you need to.

This.  KG is fine, he just is old and the back to backs hurt him big time.  That's an issue but nothing you can really do besides rest him.

He shouldn't have played as much inthe NOLA game, as I said in another thread.  If you look at Duncan, he is having the exact same issues.  Clearly didn't have it on the last of a three games in four night run (1-8 FG, 1 reb in the first half and Pop sat him the whole 2nd half).

thank you.  my mouth was literally hanging open in astonishment reading the responses on this blog.  people's memories are so short it's not funny.  KG looked GREAT last year, was one of the best defensive players in the league, was an all-star, etc.  i keep saying they just need to get back into the swing of things, they'll be fine.

Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2011, 12:54:31 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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no, kg isnt done.  he is still a great defender and a great passer.  offensively, he has declined tho.

Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2011, 01:02:02 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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He is not done but for some reason he is not getting many good looks offensively right now.

The whole team has looked bad offensively. No ball movement, bad spacing. Maybe they have to adjust to teams actually respecting Rondo's jump and not just sagging off of him.

Defensively, I am not buying that he has lost a step. His timing looks a little off but pysically he looks to be the same guy as we saw last year. Just looks a little rusty.

Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2011, 01:14:31 PM »

Offline greenpride32

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He's just a shadow of his former self so in that sense yes he is done.  I mean if you guys want to call Vince Carter washed up then KG is in the same boat.

Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2011, 01:18:10 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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He's not done.

I just believe that he is pacing himself more for this particular season.

He has to. He is certainly on his last legs of his career, and I'm thinking that he is trying to save it all for the latter portion of the season and the playoffs.

I'm thankful that Danny signed Bass. That was a smart move. He will help to take SOME of the load off of KG.

To me, a perfect example is Tim Duncan. I think KG and Tim are in similar situations as far as points in their careers. Last season, though, Tim had numerous injuries and KG didn't, but then we reached the playoffs and, unfortunately - my man Glen checked out for whatever reason. That hurt us during the MIA series and made KG look worse.

KG doesn't have to worry about that this season. Glen is happy in ORL and we have the hungry Bass. But even with that I'm sure we haven't seen the best KG yet and probably won't for a while.

As frustrating as it is for me to see us lose - I'd rather we limp this season (Similar to 1969?) and make some noise in April-June.

Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2011, 01:33:58 PM »

Offline MBz

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He is not done but for some reason he is not getting many good looks offensively right now.

The whole team has looked bad offensively. No ball movement, bad spacing. Maybe they have to adjust to teams actually respecting Rondo's jump and not just sagging off of him.

Defensively, I am not buying that he has lost a step. His timing looks a little off but pysically he looks to be the same guy as we saw last year. Just looks a little rusty.

No inside scoring.  It's going to be a problem all season, we will look more like the team last season after Shaq went down which is basically average.  Not a contender, but not a bottom feeder either.
do it

Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2011, 01:36:16 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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He was one of the best defenders in the league last year.

Sometimes, I think people don't realize just how good KG was defensively last season because he is nowhere as good as his peak.  A diminished KG was still first team NBA All-Defensive and second in Defensive Player of the Year voting, defensive rating, and defensive win shares (runner-up to Dwight Howard in all three) in 2010-2011, but during the off-season, some people were talking as if KG was a horse ready to be put out to pasture.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2011, 01:38:59 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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Done as a superstar / all-star.  Yes, absolutely.

He's still capable of being a very high quality roleplayer and making a big impact on defense.

That said, I imagine he'll struggle to score more than 10-12 points per game this season, and might not grab more than 7 or 8 rebounds.
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Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2011, 01:52:50 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Done as a superstar / all-star.  Yes, absolutely.

He's still capable of being a very high quality roleplayer and making a big impact on defense.

That said, I imagine he'll struggle to score more than 10-12 points per game this season, and might not grab more than 7 or 8 rebounds.

  He clearly deserved his spot on the all-star team last year. He's clearly not a superstar, but I'd give him a little more time before I declared him a role player.

Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2011, 01:57:40 PM »

Offline Snakehead

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Done as a superstar / all-star.  Yes, absolutely.

He's still capable of being a very high quality roleplayer and making a big impact on defense.

That said, I imagine he'll struggle to score more than 10-12 points per game this season, and might not grab more than 7 or 8 rebounds.

  He clearly deserved his spot on the all-star team last year. He's clearly not a superstar, but I'd give him a little more time before I declared him a role player.

TP.  Seriously, the guy was the best defender at his position and 2nd in DPOY voting and he's a role player this year?  He has his offensive defeciencies but also his strengths as a jump shooter. Give him time and more respect than a burial because he played poorly against New Orleans with no rest.  He was clearly tired and played big minutes the two games before.

KG hasn't been a superstar since 08 but that doesn't mean he's not still great.  I swear people don't realize there is a whole defensive side to basketball.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2011, 02:04:42 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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Done as a superstar / all-star.  Yes, absolutely.

He's still capable of being a very high quality roleplayer and making a big impact on defense.

That said, I imagine he'll struggle to score more than 10-12 points per game this season, and might not grab more than 7 or 8 rebounds.

  He clearly deserved his spot on the all-star team last year. He's clearly not a superstar, but I'd give him a little more time before I declared him a role player.

TP.  Seriously, the guy was the best defender at his position and 2nd in DPOY voting and he's a role player this year?  He has his offensive defeciencies but also his strengths as a jump shooter. Give him time and more respect than a burial because he played poorly against New Orleans with no rest.  He was clearly tired and played big minutes the two games before.

KG hasn't been a superstar since 08 but that doesn't mean he's not still great.  I swear people don't realize there is a whole defensive side to basketball.

Until the Celts start playing better team defense which begins and ends with KG and his abilities, you will see this kind of cirticism whether it is KG's fault or not.

Let's just see a couple wins first!!!!

Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2011, 02:04:47 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Done as a superstar / all-star.  Yes, absolutely.

He's still capable of being a very high quality roleplayer and making a big impact on defense.

That said, I imagine he'll struggle to score more than 10-12 points per game this season, and might not grab more than 7 or 8 rebounds.

  He clearly deserved his spot on the all-star team last year. He's clearly not a superstar, but I'd give him a little more time before I declared him a role player.

TP.  Seriously, the guy was the best defender at his position and 2nd in DPOY voting and he's a role player this year?  He has his offensive defeciencies but also his strengths as a jump shooter. Give him time and more respect than a burial because he played poorly against New Orleans with no rest.  He was clearly tired and played big minutes the two games before.

KG hasn't been a superstar since 08 but that doesn't mean he's not still great.  I swear people don't realize there is a whole defensive side to basketball.

TP for this too. You can't expect everyone  on here to understand the game. I doubt the majority of people on here even played it at a competitive level; otherwise they would understand the impact Garnett still has even at this stage of his career.

The guy is a top 5 defensive player according to last year. 3 games is too small a sample size to suggest otherwise yet. His intelligence is being vastly underestimated as well. His value goes beyond how many points he scores and how athletic he looks.


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Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2011, 02:10:43 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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TP for this too. You can't expect everyone  on here to understand the game. I doubt the majority of people on here even played it at a competitive level; otherwise they would understand the impact Garnett still has even at this stage of his career.
While I agree with you on Garnett's impact the past two years despite his offensive decline, the underlined part of the post irks me hugely.

Its far too casual put down of the membership of this blog's basketball intelligence, along with an unverifiable appeal to authority of "playing competitively" (which is a rather vague term, some places pick up games are more competitive than HS tournaments).

Re: Is KG Done?
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2011, 02:15:29 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Let's take into consideration a few factors before jumping to conclusions here:

1. Last year and previous years the Celtics had what amounted to a 10 day training camp before pre-season games, about 7-8 pre-season games that spanned slightly over 2 weeks, then about 5-7 more days of practice before the season opener. Last year they opened with 3 games in four nights and lost to a pathetic Cleveland team on the second night of back to backs in that 3 games in 4 day stretch. Point is the Celtics had a over a month of practices, pre-season games, and 3 regular season games to come to the same point that they have already in about 2 weeks time.

2. Camp opened Dec. 9th and the Celtics players had not been near summer camps or the Waltham training facility or the coaching or medical or training staff all summer long. Everyone's condition coming into camp was a huge question mark for the Celtics coaches and staff. This had to set back the team's ability to properly condition and meld themselves into a cohesive unit.

3. The worst part of what we have seen thus far is a horrid team defense and just awful man defense and rotational defense. Part of that is a lack of practice, part is a lack of conditioning, and the third is a lack of cohesion due to the fact Pierce has missed the entire camp.

4. KG is older and father time will take over at some point. But let's remember something. In the past, KG has been able to know he had Perkins and Shaq behind him playing defense and he could play tighter man defense on the 4 and cheat when he had to because he had a bid defensive stud or intimidator behind him. I think the word is out on Jermaine O'Neal. He is not nearly the defensive rock at the center position he once was and can be moved easily and can not move laterally nearly well enough to pick up the rotations that well. I think this is why O'Neal is fouling so much early on.

5. KG isn't a center. He can't move those big guys off the blocks with lower body strength and doesn't have the initial explosion in his lift to get up high enough and effect big man's shots anymore. This is also why he has appeared to be late on numerous switches and smaller guys are getting layups off him. This was in evidence last year as well. Further proof of this is KG's lack of alley oops from Rondo. KG can't get the initial burst to get separation from his man on the high pick and is also having trouble getting elevation and hang time to get the ball and then throw it down. This was also in evidence last year as KG many times caught the ball, landed and then went up with a layup.


Take all this into consideration and I say we have to wait until Pierce is back and the starters start playing together for a bunch of games before we know exactly if KG is done or old. He should still be in the middle of preseason and practices. Instead he is going to be playing his 4th game in 6 nights tonight. He and this team needs a couple of weeks of playing together, practices, conditioning and cohesion as a group before I start announcing any player old, done, worthless, D-League material or any of the other stuff I have seen on this board. And yes, that includes O'Neal, KG, Bradley, Pavlovic, Daniels, Moore or any other player that someone has claimed has played poorly and is cooked.

Personally, I think KG has to have taken a step back. He's human and has a lot of mileage on that body. If he is limited to less than 30 MPG(Note: that is an average so I don't want to hear about the minutes he has put in thus far. If he's out of condition, and it appears he is, more minutes will get him in shape faster. Its why they have two-a-days during training camp.), can play regularly with the starters and have his minutes at center be limited to a zone defense, he can still be a very effective defender and 14PPG and 7 RPG player who will need about 6-8 games off during the year during the condensed schedule to remain fresh for the playoffs.

He won't ever be KG of 2007-08 ever again. I don't think we are even going to see much consistency from him this year, more like a great game and then a ho-hum game, then a good game and then a stinker. Its what happens to older players.

I would be happy though if this is his last year. I don't want to see him being Hakeem in Toronto coming off the bench because his game is so old.