Is KG Done?

[Fafnir]

Good assessment on why the Camby comparison is off-base, Inside Out. KG has never been great at protecting the paint/rim; he's far more effective roaming at mid-range, swarming passing lanes, and causing problems on switches, while the other big man stays home and guards the rim (a la KG and Perk combo).

I think you're mistaking shot blocking for rim protection, KG has always excelled at protecting the paint and rim since moving to PF full time.

[CelticG1]

He was one of the best defenders in the league last year. I have a hard time believing hes done. I actually thought he looked pretty good against the knicks. Other games not so much. Id be pretty surprised if he wasnt a top defender at PF 14-15 a game on 50% shooting

[Fafnir]

He was one of the best defenders in the league last year. I have a hard time believing hes done. I actually thought he looked pretty good against the knicks. Other games not so much. Id be pretty surprised if he wasnt a top defender at PF 14-15 a game on 50% shooting

That's my big worry actually, that he can no longer recover physically from playing basketball from night to night like you need to.

[Neurotic Guy]

What will it take tonight for folks to think that KG may still have something left?  I realize that 1 game doesn't prove anything, especially against an underwhelming opponent like Detroit.  However, if he shows some (as my father-in-law would say) 'hitch in his giddyap' tonight, perhaps it demonstrates that can still ratchet it up at least from time to time. 

Look for a KG double-double tonight.

[Fafnir]

What will it take tonight for folks to think that KG may still have something left?  I realize that 1 game doesn't prove anything, especially against an underwhelming opponent like Detroit.  However, if he shows some (as my father-in-law would say) 'hitch in his giddyap' tonight, perhaps it demonstrates that can still ratchet it up at least from time to time.  

Look for a KG double-double tonight.

I mostly want to see him get back to where he was as a rebounder/defender last year.

Offensively I'm fine with him being a passer/jumpshooter. Last year he was 15/9 in 32 minutes per game. I'd be happy with that or 14/8 in similar minutes.

[Eja117]

Is Duncan done? No. They're just sorta transitioning.  They can't be the best players on a championship team anymore. 

[Snakehead]

He was one of the best defenders in the league last year. I have a hard time believing hes done. I actually thought he looked pretty good against the knicks. Other games not so much. Id be pretty surprised if he wasnt a top defender at PF 14-15 a game on 50% shooting

That's my big worry actually, that he can no longer recover physically from playing basketball from night to night like you need to.

This.  KG is fine, he just is old and the back to backs hurt him big time.  That's an issue but nothing you can really do besides rest him.

He shouldn't have played as much inthe NOLA game, as I said in another thread.  If you look at Duncan, he is having the exact same issues.  Clearly didn't have it on the last of a three games in four night run (1-8 FG, 1 reb in the first half and Pop sat him the whole 2nd half).

[kevbo]

Good assessment on why the Camby comparison is off-base, Inside Out. KG has never been great at protecting the paint/rim; he's far more effective roaming at mid-range, swarming passing lanes, and causing problems on switches, while the other big man stays home and guards the rim (a la KG and Perk combo).

I think you're mistaking shot blocking for rim protection, KG has always excelled at protecting the paint and rim since moving to PF full time.

Not at all, unless you mean meeting guys at the rim to attempt to block shots. KG has never been a guy to clog the paint, lay down hard fouls when someone gets into the paint, or try to meet guards at the rim. He's been an excellent man defender, help defender, great on switches, disrupting entry passes, and jumping out on shooters. So in all those ways, he protects the paint. But he's never a guy to hover around the paint and make guys think twice about driving the lane. That was Perk, Shaq's and supposedly JO's job.

[Snakehead]

Good assessment on why the Camby comparison is off-base, Inside Out. KG has never been great at protecting the paint/rim; he's far more effective roaming at mid-range, swarming passing lanes, and causing problems on switches, while the other big man stays home and guards the rim (a la KG and Perk combo).

I think you're mistaking shot blocking for rim protection, KG has always excelled at protecting the paint and rim since moving to PF full time.

Not at all, unless you mean meeting guys at the rim to attempt to block shots. KG has never been a guy to clog the paint, lay down hard fouls when someone gets into the paint, or try to meet guards at the rim. He's been an excellent man defender, help defender, great on switches, disrupting entry passes, and jumping out on shooters. So in all those ways, he protects the paint. But he's never a guy to hover around the paint and make guys think twice about driving the lane. That was Perk, Shaq's and supposedly JO's job.

I don't think you're wrong here, but just pointing out that you're mentioning guys who are Centers vs a PF, so he is pretty much doing what he is supposed to for his position.

Instead of meeting slashers at the rim, he is meeting them at the foul line, so he's doing his job regardless and ultimately preventing the opponents from getting close to the rim.  This makes sense when your match ups are guys like Amare that can hit jumpers, you're not going to be standing around the rim all the time like Shaq, Perk, JO are.

[Drucci]

For now, I'm assuming it's just rust. Terrible rust. If he still looks that bad one month and a half from now I think it will be time to consider he is cooked.

[CelticG1]

He was one of the best defenders in the league last year. I have a hard time believing hes done. I actually thought he looked pretty good against the knicks. Other games not so much. Id be pretty surprised if he wasnt a top defender at PF 14-15 a game on 50% shooting

That's my big worry actually, that he can no longer recover physically from playing basketball from night to night like you need to.

This.  KG is fine, he just is old and the back to backs hurt him big time.  That's an issue but nothing you can really do besides rest him.

He shouldn't have played as much inthe NOLA game, as I said in another thread.  If you look at Duncan, he is having the exact same issues.  Clearly didn't have it on the last of a three games in four night run (1-8 FG, 1 reb in the first half and Pop sat him the whole 2nd half).

My point is that he isn't done. I guess it depends on your definition though. I think its crazy that some think he will retire after this year too.when was the last guy to retire coming off a 20 mill dollar year.? Not that that means anything but I still think he is a very valuable guy and would take him over most pfs over the next two years. Do people really think guys like boozer and big al are that much better than him? Or freaking big baby?

[kevbo]

Good assessment on why the Camby comparison is off-base, Inside Out. KG has never been great at protecting the paint/rim; he's far more effective roaming at mid-range, swarming passing lanes, and causing problems on switches, while the other big man stays home and guards the rim (a la KG and Perk combo).

I think you're mistaking shot blocking for rim protection, KG has always excelled at protecting the paint and rim since moving to PF full time.

Not at all, unless you mean meeting guys at the rim to attempt to block shots. KG has never been a guy to clog the paint, lay down hard fouls when someone gets into the paint, or try to meet guards at the rim. He's been an excellent man defender, help defender, great on switches, disrupting entry passes, and jumping out on shooters. So in all those ways, he protects the paint. But he's never a guy to hover around the paint and make guys think twice about driving the lane. That was Perk, Shaq's and supposedly JO's job.

I don't think you're wrong here, but just pointing out that you're mentioning guys who are Centers vs a PF, so he is pretty much doing what he is supposed to for his position.

Instead of meeting slashers at the rim, he is meeting them at the foul line, so he's doing his job regardless and ultimately preventing the opponents from getting close to the rim.  This makes sense when your match ups are guys like Amare that can hit jumpers, you're not going to be standing around the rim all the time like Shaq, Perk, JO are.

Absolutely. I think we're all likely in agreement here; it's not that I expect KG to play that way in the paint from the PF spot. My larger point is, as currently constituted, the Celtics are requiring him to fill much of the void at C (which means clogging paint/protecting rim) as well as bring his usual defense against PFs, and he can't do it. I'm not trying to denigrate KG at all, just point out that he'll remain an effective NBA player for a few more years in a situation where he can focus on what he does well, which is roam and keep passes/people out of the paint in the first place, confident that there's a C back there to protect the rim just in case.

[celticinorlando]

i feel like he has one foot in the basketball grave at this point...looks like he has lost a lot...esp on defense

[ManUp]

Done in terms of being an all-star or a guy you should rely on to score. He's an above average starting PF. 14/8 is what you should expect from him on a nightly basis. Of the big 3 I think Pierce is the only who would still qualify as an all-star, but I think that might be a stretch too. Our guys are very good system players who've benefited from good coaching and quality teammates.

[LB3533]

Can we give our guys and our a team a few more games before we decide anything?

Also, are we not not using KG in a different way this year, as far as playing time stints?

Isn't KG playing in shorter more frequent spurts?

I think you add this element with the rust....and you see what we see now.

Offensively, I think we need to focus more on using KG and running some plays through him. This could save Rajon's legs as well.

I mean after Rajon, our next "go to guy" is Brandon Bass??

There are stretches in games where KG and Ray Allen do not even get a whiff of the ball on offense.