Rondo's Defense undermining team

[Celtics18]

  Rondo's never been turnover prone for a high level pg. He's generally among the league leaders in assist/turnover ratio.

Well, he has been over these three games: assist-to-turnover ratio of 1.93 to 1.

That's not too good, but like Tim's been saying I expect that number to improve as the team becomes more comfortable with each other offensively.

Just for a little perspective here's a partial list of some other top NBA point guards who currently have worse assist-to-turnover ratios than Rajon Rondo:

Steve Nash
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry

Those, of course, are just the most notable names.

And  here are the names of point guards sporting close to 4:1 assist-to-turnover ratio:

Chris Paul
Andre Miller
Tony Parker
Jose Calderon

This is pretty pointless exercise, really. Sure, there are other PGs struggling, and sure, Rondo will get better over time. But until he does, we're going to lose.

Rondo now has to be good enough to carry the franchise on his back. Welcome to the brave new world.

It may be a pointless exercise, but you are the one who brought up assist-to-turnover ratio.  

Rondo played like an MVP candidate in two close losses on the road to Eastern conference contenders to start the season.  Unfortunately, he and the rest of the team looked gassed in the 3rd game in 4 nights on the road without a real training camp or preseason.

I agree, though, that this is Rondo's team now, and that he has to be awfully good this season for us to have a shot.  On the other hand, I think that once Paul Pierce returns, the big 3 will still have enough to give him the help he needs to keep this team in contention.

[EJPLAYA]

I have for years on here, as have a few others, been railing on Rondo's defense. He is an overrated defender who in the past has been able to get away with his gambling style of defense by having Perk down in the paint and good rotation by his teammates. I can't count how many times his man blows past him and someone else's man scores when they rotate to help him out. Then THEY are the ones getting blamed. Now there is no one as able to help him and so its HIS man scoring instead of someone else's.

His defense is the same as it always has been. Slacks off his man to try and get into position to steal the ball leaving us vulnerable for the open shot. Another reason that I've thought shipping Rondo off for good value was a smart move. He is the one player that many teams out there feel is better than he really is.

[Celtics18]

I have for years on here, as have a few others, been railing on Rondo's defense. He is an overrated defender who in the past has been able to get away with his gambling style of defense by having Perk down in the paint and good rotation by his teammates. I can't count how many times his man blows past him and someone else's man scores when they rotate to help him out. Then THEY are the ones getting blamed. Now there is no one as able to help him and so its HIS man scoring instead of someone else's.

His defense is the same as it always has been. Slacks off his man to try and get into position to steal the ball leaving us vulnerable for the open shot. Another reason that I've thought shipping Rondo off for good value was a smart move. He is the one player that many teams out there feel is better than he really is.

If your plan is to ship him out for a point guard who never lets opposing point guards get into the lane, then good luck.  That's an impossible task.  I challenge you to name a top level NBA point guard who does a better job of keeping his man in front of him than Rajon Rondo.

Rondo is the best defensive point guard in the NBA.  I think the only people who don't realize that are a few disgruntled Celtics fans.

[Fafnir]

I have for years on here, as have a few others, been railing on Rondo's defense. He is an overrated defender who in the past has been able to get away with his gambling style of defense by having Perk down in the paint and good rotation by his teammates. I can't count how many times his man blows past him and someone else's man scores when they rotate to help him out. Then THEY are the ones getting blamed. Now there is no one as able to help him and so its HIS man scoring instead of someone else's.

His defense is the same as it always has been. Slacks off his man to try and get into position to steal the ball leaving us vulnerable for the open shot. Another reason that I've thought shipping Rondo off for good value was a smart move. He is the one player that many teams out there feel is better than he really is.

Why would you put Perk in this paragraph instead of KG, that is the one thing that really confuses me.

I don't agree with your assesment of his defense, but we've been down this road before.

[CelticsFanNC]

  The daily blaming Rondo threads are almost as ridiculous as the blaming Doc or blaming Ainge posts that seem to pop up in every thread.  Rondo is by far the best player on this team and the only reason we were even competitive in the first two games.  That may be a problem in and of itself because Rondo is best suited to being your 2nd or 3rd best player but it is what it is.  This is what we bought when we put the big three together.

  We got old.  It happens to everybody. 

  Honestly I have been watching these past three games feeling sorry for Rondo.  He's got to be thinking who the heck am I supposed to pass the rock to?  KG who has no lift or explosion, therefore cannot finish around the hoop at all and his jumper is flat. Paul Pierce, oh ya he's hurt.  Sasha...please.  JO....see KG.  Ray is the only reliable scorer and he's not what he once was.

  Rondo has got to be out there thinking, what happened to all of the great scorers who once surrounded me.

[BballTim]

I have for years on here, as have a few others, been railing on Rondo's defense. He is an overrated defender who in the past has been able to get away with his gambling style of defense by having Perk down in the paint and good rotation by his teammates. I can't count how many times his man blows past him and someone else's man scores when they rotate to help him out. Then THEY are the ones getting blamed. Now there is no one as able to help him and so its HIS man scoring instead of someone else's.

His defense is the same as it always has been. Slacks off his man to try and get into position to steal the ball leaving us vulnerable for the open shot. Another reason that I've thought shipping Rondo off for good value was a smart move. He is the one player that many teams out there feel is better than he really is.

  Rondo's at or near the top of the league in fewest points allowed per possession for point guards and also at allowing the fewest assists. People assume that Rondo gets beaten more than other point guards when the opposite is probably true. But, in your opinion, which guards rarely get blown by, and never lose their man on picks? I'll watch them the next time they're on tv.

  The Celts scheme when Rondo's playing seems to be based on that rotation that you don't like. When you're covering a man and he goes past a pick it's pretty much impossible to stay with them. Many teams hedge on picks, the Celts don't. One of the other guys has to pick up Rondo's man until he recovers, although he makes a lot of plays by poking the ball from behind.

[Chris]

  I agree his defense was pretty bad last night. I don't think it's realistic, especially this season, to expect Rondo to sit on the bench when he's too tired. He's going to do what he can, just like he did in the playoffs with the elbow injury.

Perhaps.  But Rondo needs to find the balance between "dominant defender" and "Yi".  That has been the most frustrating part of his game to me over the last few years, and last night was a great example.  There is no middle ground for him.  Either he is shutting guys down, and controlling the game with his defense, or it is as if he is litterally not on the floor, and they are playing 4 on 5. 

I am not sure if its just a matter of going under picks more if he won't fight through them, or if he needs to play further off if he doesn't have the gas to stay with guys.  But he really needs to stop having defensive performances like he did last night.  Mediocre defense is fine from time to time, but that was putrid...and its not the first time.

  I thought that up until his plantar fascitis kicked in his defense was terrific last year. It was also very good in the preseason and the first two games. He's going to have the occasional off game but he's very good. He's also good in a lot of areas that people don't look at because they concentrate mainly on 1v1 defense. He does a great job of denial when his man doesn't have the ball, he knocks the ball loose a lot when players he's not guarding come too close to him, he's a very good transition defender and he does a great job of keeping opponents from setting up the offense. The Knicks were frequently starting their offense with 14-15 seconds left on the shot clock when they'd ideally like to start it closer to 20 seconds or so left. It caused them issues although Melo and Amare were bailing them out by hitting difficult shots late in the shot clock.

I think its either selective memory, or you are giving too much credit to the injury.  Rondo had a decent amount of games, or stretches in games last year, just like last night.  And I find it hard to blame the injury, since they were often bookended by great defensive performances.

But, even if it was the injury, the point still stands...he needs to learn to play better defense when he is not playing at 100%, because when he is bad, he is absolutely horrid.  And I am not going to consider him a great defender until he eliminates those horrid games.

[BballTim]

  I agree his defense was pretty bad last night. I don't think it's realistic, especially this season, to expect Rondo to sit on the bench when he's too tired. He's going to do what he can, just like he did in the playoffs with the elbow injury.

Perhaps.  But Rondo needs to find the balance between "dominant defender" and "Yi".  That has been the most frustrating part of his game to me over the last few years, and last night was a great example.  There is no middle ground for him.  Either he is shutting guys down, and controlling the game with his defense, or it is as if he is litterally not on the floor, and they are playing 4 on 5. 

I am not sure if its just a matter of going under picks more if he won't fight through them, or if he needs to play further off if he doesn't have the gas to stay with guys.  But he really needs to stop having defensive performances like he did last night.  Mediocre defense is fine from time to time, but that was putrid...and its not the first time.

  I thought that up until his plantar fascitis kicked in his defense was terrific last year. It was also very good in the preseason and the first two games. He's going to have the occasional off game but he's very good. He's also good in a lot of areas that people don't look at because they concentrate mainly on 1v1 defense. He does a great job of denial when his man doesn't have the ball, he knocks the ball loose a lot when players he's not guarding come too close to him, he's a very good transition defender and he does a great job of keeping opponents from setting up the offense. The Knicks were frequently starting their offense with 14-15 seconds left on the shot clock when they'd ideally like to start it closer to 20 seconds or so left. It caused them issues although Melo and Amare were bailing them out by hitting difficult shots late in the shot clock.

I think its either selective memory, or you are giving too much credit to the injury.  Rondo had a decent amount of games, or stretches in games last year, just like last night.  And I find it hard to blame the injury, since they were often bookended by great defensive performances.

  Maybe it is giving too much credit to the injury, who's to say. But from the other side, I think that if you watched any other point guard in the league as critically as you watch Rondo you'd come away with poor opinions of their defense as well. Which point guards rarely have bad defensive games, or regularly do a better job of keeping their man in front of them with no help from other defenders? He had bad games at times last year but he still finished near the top in any defensive measure you can find including all defense voting. But, again, who's noticeably better?

[Celtics18]

  I agree his defense was pretty bad last night. I don't think it's realistic, especially this season, to expect Rondo to sit on the bench when he's too tired. He's going to do what he can, just like he did in the playoffs with the elbow injury.

Perhaps.  But Rondo needs to find the balance between "dominant defender" and "Yi".  That has been the most frustrating part of his game to me over the last few years, and last night was a great example.  There is no middle ground for him.  Either he is shutting guys down, and controlling the game with his defense, or it is as if he is litterally not on the floor, and they are playing 4 on 5. 

I am not sure if its just a matter of going under picks more if he won't fight through them, or if he needs to play further off if he doesn't have the gas to stay with guys.  But he really needs to stop having defensive performances like he did last night.  Mediocre defense is fine from time to time, but that was putrid...and its not the first time.

  I thought that up until his plantar fascitis kicked in his defense was terrific last year. It was also very good in the preseason and the first two games. He's going to have the occasional off game but he's very good. He's also good in a lot of areas that people don't look at because they concentrate mainly on 1v1 defense. He does a great job of denial when his man doesn't have the ball, he knocks the ball loose a lot when players he's not guarding come too close to him, he's a very good transition defender and he does a great job of keeping opponents from setting up the offense. The Knicks were frequently starting their offense with 14-15 seconds left on the shot clock when they'd ideally like to start it closer to 20 seconds or so left. It caused them issues although Melo and Amare were bailing them out by hitting difficult shots late in the shot clock.

I think its either selective memory, or you are giving too much credit to the injury.  Rondo had a decent amount of games, or stretches in games last year, just like last night.  And I find it hard to blame the injury, since they were often bookended by great defensive performances.

  Maybe it is giving too much credit to the injury, who's to say. But from the other side, I think that if you watched any other point guard in the league as critically as you watch Rondo you'd come away with poor opinions of their defense as well. Which point guards rarely have bad defensive games, or regularly do a better job of keeping their man in front of them with no help from other defenders? He had bad games at times last year but he still finished near the top in any defensive measure you can find including all defense voting. But, again, who's noticeably better?

Your question won't get answered.  I know you've asked this question before.  I certainly have as well.

Interestingly, folks who claim that Rondo is a terrible defender cannot think of a better defender at the point guard position in the league.  It seems pretty clear to me that this is because there aren't any. 

 I guess the answer is that while he's the best defender at his position in the league, he's still a terrible defender because sometimes opposing point guards get in the lane. 

 

[vinnie]

  Rondo's never been turnover prone for a high level pg. He's generally among the league leaders in assist/turnover ratio.

Well, he has been over these three games: assist-to-turnover ratio of 1.93 to 1.

That's not too good, but like Tim's been saying I expect that number to improve as the team becomes more comfortable with each other offensively.

Just for a little perspective here's a partial list of some other top NBA point guards who currently have worse assist-to-turnover ratios than Rajon Rondo:

Steve Nash
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry

Those, of course, are just the most notable names.

And  here are the names of point guards sporting close to 4:1 assist-to-turnover ratio:

Chris Paul
Andre Miller
Tony Parker
Jose Calderon

This is pretty pointless exercise, really. Sure, there are other PGs struggling, and sure, Rondo will get better over time. But until he does, we're going to lose.

Rondo now has to be good enough to carry the franchise on his back. Welcome to the brave new world.

It may be a pointless exercise, but you are the one who brought up assist-to-turnover ratio.  

Rondo played like an MVP candidate in two close losses on the road to Eastern conference contenders to start the season.  Unfortunately, he and the rest of the team looked gassed in the 3rd game in 4 nights on the road without a real training camp or preseason.

I agree, though, that this is Rondo's team now, and that he has to be awfully good this season for us to have a shot.  On the other hand, I think that once Paul Pierce returns, the big 3 will still have enough to give him the help he needs to keep this team in contention.

I keep reading about the Celtics having no real training camp or preseason. Are they the only team in the NBA that has this problem? Seems to me every team is in the same exact situation.

[Celtics18]

 Rondo's never been turnover prone for a high level pg. He's generally among the league leaders in assist/turnover ratio.

Well, he has been over these three games: assist-to-turnover ratio of 1.93 to 1.

That's not too good, but like Tim's been saying I expect that number to improve as the team becomes more comfortable with each other offensively.

Just for a little perspective here's a partial list of some other top NBA point guards who currently have worse assist-to-turnover ratios than Rajon Rondo:

Steve Nash
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry

Those, of course, are just the most notable names.

And  here are the names of point guards sporting close to 4:1 assist-to-turnover ratio:

Chris Paul
Andre Miller
Tony Parker
Jose Calderon

This is pretty pointless exercise, really. Sure, there are other PGs struggling, and sure, Rondo will get better over time. But until he does, we're going to lose.

Rondo now has to be good enough to carry the franchise on his back. Welcome to the brave new world.

It may be a pointless exercise, but you are the one who brought up assist-to-turnover ratio.  

Rondo played like an MVP candidate in two close losses on the road to Eastern conference contenders to start the season.  Unfortunately, he and the rest of the team looked gassed in the 3rd game in 4 nights on the road without a real training camp or preseason.

I agree, though, that this is Rondo's team now, and that he has to be awfully good this season for us to have a shot.  On the other hand, I think that once Paul Pierce returns, the big 3 will still have enough to give him the help he needs to keep this team in contention.

I keep reading about the Celtics having no real training camp or preseason. Are they the only team in the NBA that has this problem? Seems to me every team is in the same exact situation.

That's absolutely true, and we've seen some pretty topsy turvy results to start the season, I believe, largely as a result of this.  

I don't think it's just affected the Celtics.

[BballTim]

  Rondo's never been turnover prone for a high level pg. He's generally among the league leaders in assist/turnover ratio.

Well, he has been over these three games: assist-to-turnover ratio of 1.93 to 1.

That's not too good, but like Tim's been saying I expect that number to improve as the team becomes more comfortable with each other offensively.

Just for a little perspective here's a partial list of some other top NBA point guards who currently have worse assist-to-turnover ratios than Rajon Rondo:

Steve Nash
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry

Those, of course, are just the most notable names.

And  here are the names of point guards sporting close to 4:1 assist-to-turnover ratio:

Chris Paul
Andre Miller
Tony Parker
Jose Calderon

This is pretty pointless exercise, really. Sure, there are other PGs struggling, and sure, Rondo will get better over time. But until he does, we're going to lose.

Rondo now has to be good enough to carry the franchise on his back. Welcome to the brave new world.

It may be a pointless exercise, but you are the one who brought up assist-to-turnover ratio.  

Rondo played like an MVP candidate in two close losses on the road to Eastern conference contenders to start the season.  Unfortunately, he and the rest of the team looked gassed in the 3rd game in 4 nights on the road without a real training camp or preseason.

I agree, though, that this is Rondo's team now, and that he has to be awfully good this season for us to have a shot.  On the other hand, I think that once Paul Pierce returns, the big 3 will still have enough to give him the help he needs to keep this team in contention.

I keep reading about the Celtics having no real training camp or preseason. Are they the only team in the NBA that has this problem? Seems to me every team is in the same exact situation.

  Deron and Nash have both had 1 assist/6 turnover games, Westbrook was 0-13 last night, Rose was 4-17 against GS. Imagine the vitriol if Rondo had a 1 assist/6 turnover game or went 0-13 from the field?

[Chris]

  I agree his defense was pretty bad last night. I don't think it's realistic, especially this season, to expect Rondo to sit on the bench when he's too tired. He's going to do what he can, just like he did in the playoffs with the elbow injury.

Perhaps.  But Rondo needs to find the balance between "dominant defender" and "Yi".  That has been the most frustrating part of his game to me over the last few years, and last night was a great example.  There is no middle ground for him.  Either he is shutting guys down, and controlling the game with his defense, or it is as if he is litterally not on the floor, and they are playing 4 on 5. 

I am not sure if its just a matter of going under picks more if he won't fight through them, or if he needs to play further off if he doesn't have the gas to stay with guys.  But he really needs to stop having defensive performances like he did last night.  Mediocre defense is fine from time to time, but that was putrid...and its not the first time.

  I thought that up until his plantar fascitis kicked in his defense was terrific last year. It was also very good in the preseason and the first two games. He's going to have the occasional off game but he's very good. He's also good in a lot of areas that people don't look at because they concentrate mainly on 1v1 defense. He does a great job of denial when his man doesn't have the ball, he knocks the ball loose a lot when players he's not guarding come too close to him, he's a very good transition defender and he does a great job of keeping opponents from setting up the offense. The Knicks were frequently starting their offense with 14-15 seconds left on the shot clock when they'd ideally like to start it closer to 20 seconds or so left. It caused them issues although Melo and Amare were bailing them out by hitting difficult shots late in the shot clock.

I think its either selective memory, or you are giving too much credit to the injury.  Rondo had a decent amount of games, or stretches in games last year, just like last night.  And I find it hard to blame the injury, since they were often bookended by great defensive performances.

  Maybe it is giving too much credit to the injury, who's to say. But from the other side, I think that if you watched any other point guard in the league as critically as you watch Rondo you'd come away with poor opinions of their defense as well. Which point guards rarely have bad defensive games, or regularly do a better job of keeping their man in front of them with no help from other defenders? He had bad games at times last year but he still finished near the top in any defensive measure you can find including all defense voting. But, again, who's noticeably better?

Your question won't get answered.  I know you've asked this question before.  I certainly have as well.

Interestingly, folks who claim that Rondo is a terrible defender cannot think of a better defender at the point guard position in the league.  It seems pretty clear to me that this is because there aren't any. 

 I guess the answer is that while he's the best defender at his position in the league, he's still a terrible defender because sometimes opposing point guards get in the lane. 

 

The problem is the question is being framed to get a certain answer.

I am not questioning whether Rondo is the best starting PG defender in the league.  He probably is (although there other guys who are in the same ballpark).  The question is whether he is a GREAT defender.  And this is the question, in my mind, because he needs to be a great defender to reach his potential as a player, with his unique skillset.

And there have been great defensive PGs.  Payton obviously comes to mind.  DJ.  And these guys were great not just because they could dominate stretches with their defense, and shut guys down when they needed to, but they were also consistent.  

No one shuts everyone down every play.  But the great ones never got killed the way Rondo does when he is not "on" (and Rondo has games like that way too frequently for my taste).  They had a cruise control, just like Rondo, but their cruise was at about a B defender, with the ability to turn it up to an A+ defender.

So yeah, maybe Rondo is the best defensive starting PG right now.  But that is like being the smartest Kardashian.  It is certainly nothing to brag about, and given that it is biggest asset as a player, it is not something he should be content with.

His goal should be to be the best defensive player in the NBA (which he is nowhere near...there are 10-15 wing defenders, and a handful of big men who are better overall defenders than him), and the best PG defender in the history of the NBA.  Because that is what it is going to take for him to be as great as he could be as an overall basketball player.

Losers try to be the best of their group.  Winners try to be the best they can possibly be.  

[Celtics18]

  I agree his defense was pretty bad last night. I don't think it's realistic, especially this season, to expect Rondo to sit on the bench when he's too tired. He's going to do what he can, just like he did in the playoffs with the elbow injury.

Perhaps.  But Rondo needs to find the balance between "dominant defender" and "Yi".  That has been the most frustrating part of his game to me over the last few years, and last night was a great example.  There is no middle ground for him.  Either he is shutting guys down, and controlling the game with his defense, or it is as if he is litterally not on the floor, and they are playing 4 on 5. 

I am not sure if its just a matter of going under picks more if he won't fight through them, or if he needs to play further off if he doesn't have the gas to stay with guys.  But he really needs to stop having defensive performances like he did last night.  Mediocre defense is fine from time to time, but that was putrid...and its not the first time.

  I thought that up until his plantar fascitis kicked in his defense was terrific last year. It was also very good in the preseason and the first two games. He's going to have the occasional off game but he's very good. He's also good in a lot of areas that people don't look at because they concentrate mainly on 1v1 defense. He does a great job of denial when his man doesn't have the ball, he knocks the ball loose a lot when players he's not guarding come too close to him, he's a very good transition defender and he does a great job of keeping opponents from setting up the offense. The Knicks were frequently starting their offense with 14-15 seconds left on the shot clock when they'd ideally like to start it closer to 20 seconds or so left. It caused them issues although Melo and Amare were bailing them out by hitting difficult shots late in the shot clock.

I think its either selective memory, or you are giving too much credit to the injury.  Rondo had a decent amount of games, or stretches in games last year, just like last night.  And I find it hard to blame the injury, since they were often bookended by great defensive performances.

  Maybe it is giving too much credit to the injury, who's to say. But from the other side, I think that if you watched any other point guard in the league as critically as you watch Rondo you'd come away with poor opinions of their defense as well. Which point guards rarely have bad defensive games, or regularly do a better job of keeping their man in front of them with no help from other defenders? He had bad games at times last year but he still finished near the top in any defensive measure you can find including all defense voting. But, again, who's noticeably better?

Your question won't get answered.  I know you've asked this question before.  I certainly have as well.

Interestingly, folks who claim that Rondo is a terrible defender cannot think of a better defender at the point guard position in the league.  It seems pretty clear to me that this is because there aren't any. 

 I guess the answer is that while he's the best defender at his position in the league, he's still a terrible defender because sometimes opposing point guards get in the lane. 

 

The problem is the question is being framed to get a certain answer.

I am not questioning whether Rondo is the best starting PG defender in the league.  He probably is (although there other guys who are in the same ballpark).  The question is whether he is a GREAT defender.  And this is the question, in my mind, because he needs to be a great defender to reach his potential as a player, with his unique skillset.

And there have been great defensive PGs.  Payton obviously comes to mind.  DJ.  And these guys were great not just because they could dominate stretches with their defense, and shut guys down when they needed to, but they were also consistent.  

No one shuts everyone down every play.  But the great ones never got killed the way Rondo does when he is not "on" (and Rondo has games like that way too frequently for my taste).  They had a cruise control, just like Rondo, but their cruise was at about a B defender, with the ability to turn it up to an A+ defender.

So yeah, maybe Rondo is the best defensive starting PG right now.  But that is like being the smartest Kardashian.  It is certainly nothing to brag about, and given that it is biggest asset as a player, it is not something he should be content with.

His goal should be to be the best defensive player in the NBA (which he is nowhere near...there are 10-15 wing defenders, and a handful of big men who are better overall defenders than him), and the best PG defender in the history of the NBA.  Because that is what it is going to take for him to be as great as he could be as an overall basketball player.

Losers try to be the best of their group.  Winners try to be the best they can possibly be.  

I think it's not realistic to expect a 6 ft., 180 lb. point guard to be the best defender in the league.  I'm sure Rondo's aiming to be, though. 

Having said that, in the 2010 season, when he was healthy for most of it, opposing coaches felt that he was the second best defensive player in the league behind only Dwight Howard. 

[Chris]

  I agree his defense was pretty bad last night. I don't think it's realistic, especially this season, to expect Rondo to sit on the bench when he's too tired. He's going to do what he can, just like he did in the playoffs with the elbow injury.

Perhaps.  But Rondo needs to find the balance between "dominant defender" and "Yi".  That has been the most frustrating part of his game to me over the last few years, and last night was a great example.  There is no middle ground for him.  Either he is shutting guys down, and controlling the game with his defense, or it is as if he is litterally not on the floor, and they are playing 4 on 5. 

I am not sure if its just a matter of going under picks more if he won't fight through them, or if he needs to play further off if he doesn't have the gas to stay with guys.  But he really needs to stop having defensive performances like he did last night.  Mediocre defense is fine from time to time, but that was putrid...and its not the first time.

  I thought that up until his plantar fascitis kicked in his defense was terrific last year. It was also very good in the preseason and the first two games. He's going to have the occasional off game but he's very good. He's also good in a lot of areas that people don't look at because they concentrate mainly on 1v1 defense. He does a great job of denial when his man doesn't have the ball, he knocks the ball loose a lot when players he's not guarding come too close to him, he's a very good transition defender and he does a great job of keeping opponents from setting up the offense. The Knicks were frequently starting their offense with 14-15 seconds left on the shot clock when they'd ideally like to start it closer to 20 seconds or so left. It caused them issues although Melo and Amare were bailing them out by hitting difficult shots late in the shot clock.

I think its either selective memory, or you are giving too much credit to the injury.  Rondo had a decent amount of games, or stretches in games last year, just like last night.  And I find it hard to blame the injury, since they were often bookended by great defensive performances.

  Maybe it is giving too much credit to the injury, who's to say. But from the other side, I think that if you watched any other point guard in the league as critically as you watch Rondo you'd come away with poor opinions of their defense as well. Which point guards rarely have bad defensive games, or regularly do a better job of keeping their man in front of them with no help from other defenders? He had bad games at times last year but he still finished near the top in any defensive measure you can find including all defense voting. But, again, who's noticeably better?

Your question won't get answered.  I know you've asked this question before.  I certainly have as well.

Interestingly, folks who claim that Rondo is a terrible defender cannot think of a better defender at the point guard position in the league.  It seems pretty clear to me that this is because there aren't any. 

 I guess the answer is that while he's the best defender at his position in the league, he's still a terrible defender because sometimes opposing point guards get in the lane. 

 

The problem is the question is being framed to get a certain answer.

I am not questioning whether Rondo is the best starting PG defender in the league.  He probably is (although there other guys who are in the same ballpark).  The question is whether he is a GREAT defender.  And this is the question, in my mind, because he needs to be a great defender to reach his potential as a player, with his unique skillset.

And there have been great defensive PGs.  Payton obviously comes to mind.  DJ.  And these guys were great not just because they could dominate stretches with their defense, and shut guys down when they needed to, but they were also consistent.  

No one shuts everyone down every play.  But the great ones never got killed the way Rondo does when he is not "on" (and Rondo has games like that way too frequently for my taste).  They had a cruise control, just like Rondo, but their cruise was at about a B defender, with the ability to turn it up to an A+ defender.

So yeah, maybe Rondo is the best defensive starting PG right now.  But that is like being the smartest Kardashian.  It is certainly nothing to brag about, and given that it is biggest asset as a player, it is not something he should be content with.

His goal should be to be the best defensive player in the NBA (which he is nowhere near...there are 10-15 wing defenders, and a handful of big men who are better overall defenders than him), and the best PG defender in the history of the NBA.  Because that is what it is going to take for him to be as great as he could be as an overall basketball player.

Losers try to be the best of their group.  Winners try to be the best they can possibly be.  

I think it's not realistic to expect a 6 ft., 180 lb. point guard to be the best defender in the league.  I'm sure Rondo's aiming to be, though. 

Having said that, in the 2010 season, when he was healthy for most of it, opposing coaches felt that he was the second best defensive player in the league behind only Dwight Howard. 

Why is that unrealistic?  He is the guy covering the player with the ball in his hands the most.  Given his skillset, I think he is very capable of being the best defender in the league.  In fact, if you pick and choose about 30 games last season, and only looked at them, then he would have been the best defender in the league.  So, he is completely capable of it.  He just has way too many night where he goes from a great defender to a terrible defender.  I don't get why that is so hard to understand.

In my mind it is unnacceptable for a guy to completely dominate one game on defense, and then let an average player like Jack get anywhere he wants the next game.  And you can throw all the quotes from coaches, or stats you want at me.  It doesn't change the fact that it is completely unnacceptable.