Rondo's Defense undermining team

[Fafnir]

Amazing that there's a thread about Rondo's poor defense when Ray Allen is playing his worst overall basketball since coming here. I know that he's shooting well but his turnovers and poor perimeter defense is just horrible.

Ray Allen has 10 turnovers in 3 games and i'm pretty sure that the other team scored off of every single one.

Ray Allen's turnovers are horrible? Rondo has coughed up the ball 16 times in the first three games. I guess Rondo's turnovers just "look better".

Rondo's number of turnovers is more in line with what we're used to seeing from him. He's always been turnover prone for a high level PG.

Ray Allen in three games has doubled the rate of turnovers, going from a guy who is usually 1.5 a game to 3.3. I find Ray's more frustrating because of this.

Also Ray has had several backcourt turnovers, those usually are lay ups and that's doubling frustrating.

Different expectations, different levels of aggrevation.

[BballTim]

Amazing that there's a thread about Rondo's poor defense when Ray Allen is playing his worst overall basketball since coming here. I know that he's shooting well but his turnovers and poor perimeter defense is just horrible.

Ray Allen has 10 turnovers in 3 games and i'm pretty sure that the other team scored off of every single one.

Ray Allen's turnovers are horrible? Rondo has coughed up the ball 16 times in the first three games. I guess Rondo's turnovers just "look better".

Rondo's number of turnovers is more in line with what we're used to seeing from him. He's always been turnover prone for a high level PG.

Ray Allen in three games has doubled the rate of turnovers, going from a guy who is usually 1.5 a game to 3.3. I find Ray's more frustrating because of this.

Also Ray has had several backcourt turnovers, those usually are lay ups and that's doubling frustrating.

Different expectations, different levels of aggrevation.

  Rondo's never been turnover prone for a high level pg. He's generally among the league leaders in assist/turnover ratio. He has a fairly high turnover%, but that's due to the fact that he shoots the ball less than other point guards. Rondo's made a few bad turnovers but a lot of them are not being in sync with his teammates. Last year no pg averaged 4 turnovers a game (some were very close). So far this year 7 point guards are, with 5 pgs averaging 5 or more. It's likely the effect of an abbreviated training camp.

[Chris]

  Rondo's never been turnover prone for a high level pg. He's generally among the league leaders in assist/turnover ratio. He has a fairly high turnover%, but that's due to the fact that he shoots the ball less than other point guards. Rondo's made a few bad turnovers but a lot of them are not being in sync with his teammates. Last year no pg averaged 4 turnovers a game (some were very close). So far this year 7 point guards are, with 5 pgs averaging 5 or more. It's likely the effect of an abbreviated training camp.

I don't have a problem with most of the turnovers.  I think most of them are just Rondo trying to be aggressive and making up for the fact that there is no one else who can create shots on the team at the moment (well, other than Black Hole Bass, I suppose).

My problem last night was that he let Jack get wherever he wanted on the court.  It was not all on him (the bigs need to help more on the pick and rolls), but if he wants to be known as one of the best defenders in the league, he cannot have games like that.  He was playing like a matador way too much, and you just can't do that.  If he was tired, ask to come out, otherwise, he needs to do a much better job of digging in on defense, no matter who the opponent is.

[BballTim]

  Rondo's never been turnover prone for a high level pg. He's generally among the league leaders in assist/turnover ratio. He has a fairly high turnover%, but that's due to the fact that he shoots the ball less than other point guards. Rondo's made a few bad turnovers but a lot of them are not being in sync with his teammates. Last year no pg averaged 4 turnovers a game (some were very close). So far this year 7 point guards are, with 5 pgs averaging 5 or more. It's likely the effect of an abbreviated training camp.

I don't have a problem with most of the turnovers.  I think most of them are just Rondo trying to be aggressive and making up for the fact that there is no one else who can create shots on the team at the moment (well, other than Black Hole Bass, I suppose).

  I'm hoping it's because he's new to the team, but Bass is unprepared for a significant number of passes to him, and not just from Rondo.

My problem last night was that he let Jack get wherever he wanted on the court.  It was not all on him (the bigs need to help more on the pick and rolls), but if he wants to be known as one of the best defenders in the league, he cannot have games like that.  He was playing like a matador way too much, and you just can't do that.  If he was tired, ask to come out, otherwise, he needs to do a much better job of digging in on defense, no matter who the opponent is.

  I agree his defense was pretty bad last night. I don't think it's realistic, especially this season, to expect Rondo to sit on the bench when he's too tired. He's going to do what he can, just like he did in the playoffs with the elbow injury.

[Celtics18]

Rondo looked awful defensively last night.  He wasn't alone.

Although, overall we couldn't stop NY or Miami, Rondo played very well defensively in the first two games. 

[Chris]

  I agree his defense was pretty bad last night. I don't think it's realistic, especially this season, to expect Rondo to sit on the bench when he's too tired. He's going to do what he can, just like he did in the playoffs with the elbow injury.

Perhaps.  But Rondo needs to find the balance between "dominant defender" and "Yi".  That has been the most frustrating part of his game to me over the last few years, and last night was a great example.  There is no middle ground for him.  Either he is shutting guys down, and controlling the game with his defense, or it is as if he is litterally not on the floor, and they are playing 4 on 5. 

I am not sure if its just a matter of going under picks more if he won't fight through them, or if he needs to play further off if he doesn't have the gas to stay with guys.  But he really needs to stop having defensive performances like he did last night.  Mediocre defense is fine from time to time, but that was putrid...and its not the first time.

[kozlodoev]

  Rondo's never been turnover prone for a high level pg. He's generally among the league leaders in assist/turnover ratio.

Well, he has been over these three games: assist-to-turnover ratio of 1.93 to 1.

[Celtics18]

  Rondo's never been turnover prone for a high level pg. He's generally among the league leaders in assist/turnover ratio.

Well, he has been over these three games: assist-to-turnover ratio of 1.93 to 1.

That's not too good, but like Tim's been saying I expect that number to improve as the team becomes more comfortable with each other offensively.

Just for a little perspective here's a partial list of some other top NBA point guards who currently have worse assist-to-turnover ratios than Rajon Rondo:

Steve Nash
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry

Those, of course, are just the most notable names.

[BballTim]

  Rondo's never been turnover prone for a high level pg. He's generally among the league leaders in assist/turnover ratio.

Well, he has been over these three games: assist-to-turnover ratio of 1.93 to 1.

  Which is currently well better than Kidd, Nash, Westbrook, Rose, Curry, Wall, Deron and a host of others.

[kozlodoev]

  Rondo's never been turnover prone for a high level pg. He's generally among the league leaders in assist/turnover ratio.

Well, he has been over these three games: assist-to-turnover ratio of 1.93 to 1.

That's not too good, but like Tim's been saying I expect that number to improve as the team becomes more comfortable with each other offensively.

Just for a little perspective here's a partial list of some other top NBA point guards who currently have worse assist-to-turnover ratios than Rajon Rondo:

Steve Nash
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry

Those, of course, are just the most notable names.

And  here are the names of point guards sporting close to 4:1 assist-to-turnover ratio:

Chris Paul
Andre Miller
Tony Parker
Jose Calderon

This is pretty pointless exercise, really. Sure, there are other PGs struggling, and sure, Rondo will get better over time. But until he does, we're going to lose.

Rondo now has to be good enough to carry the franchise on his back. Welcome to the brave new world.

[gar]

Think that with six people under contract there are bound to be startup issues. KG was complaining perhaps partly out conditioning concerns; but also out of the need to get to know each other.

[Chief]

From what I've seen, our personnel does not fit the team defense. IMO, this team looks much better in the simple 2/3 zone.

[BballTim]

  I agree his defense was pretty bad last night. I don't think it's realistic, especially this season, to expect Rondo to sit on the bench when he's too tired. He's going to do what he can, just like he did in the playoffs with the elbow injury.

Perhaps.  But Rondo needs to find the balance between "dominant defender" and "Yi".  That has been the most frustrating part of his game to me over the last few years, and last night was a great example.  There is no middle ground for him.  Either he is shutting guys down, and controlling the game with his defense, or it is as if he is litterally not on the floor, and they are playing 4 on 5. 

I am not sure if its just a matter of going under picks more if he won't fight through them, or if he needs to play further off if he doesn't have the gas to stay with guys.  But he really needs to stop having defensive performances like he did last night.  Mediocre defense is fine from time to time, but that was putrid...and its not the first time.

  I thought that up until his plantar fascitis kicked in his defense was terrific last year. It was also very good in the preseason and the first two games. He's going to have the occasional off game but he's very good. He's also good in a lot of areas that people don't look at because they concentrate mainly on 1v1 defense. He does a great job of denial when his man doesn't have the ball, he knocks the ball loose a lot when players he's not guarding come too close to him, he's a very good transition defender and he does a great job of keeping opponents from setting up the offense. The Knicks were frequently starting their offense with 14-15 seconds left on the shot clock when they'd ideally like to start it closer to 20 seconds or so left. It caused them issues although Melo and Amare were bailing them out by hitting difficult shots late in the shot clock.

[nickagneta]

I thought Rondo played poor defense last night but Jack also hit a very high percentage of those really difficult floaters while shooting them while going towards the rim, towards the bench area and even while jumping off the wrong foot. Jack misses some of those and Rondo's D doesn't look nearly as bad.

[Swoopz]

While we're on Rondo's defense, I'd like to see him guarding LeBron a bit more. Not too much since that would tire him out much faster, but at key times when Miami starts to pick up steam, Rondo can disrupt their offense and get the ball out of LeBron's hands. Also, Rondo is the closest we have to a superstar and maybe the calls won't be too one sided for LeBron.