C's pick could be higher than the Clippers pick in 2012

[BballTim]

It also wouldn't shock me if the Celtics were a lotto team this year.

  Good luck with that one.

[Kane3387]

Well....

(healthy) Chris Paul >>>> Rondo
(healthy) Butler probably = to Pierce these days
Griffin is probably the best PF in the league... probably  >> KG at this point
We have a shooting guard (Ray)... they have a center (Jordan)...

Nothing about the Clippers would shock me.  I could totally seem them being contenders.

It also wouldn't shock me if the Celtics were a lotto team this year.

Getting ahead of yourself with Griffin, he needs to harness his potential as a defender/rebounder before he becomes better than KG/Amar'e/Gasol/Bosh. He'll be the best soon, but not yet.

Butler being as good as Pierce is also a bit strange to me, not unless Pierce declines an awful lot this year compared to last.

Dirk is likely the best presently. Griffin isn't at that level yet. He's still on the Kevin Love and Al Horford level in my opinion. Could throw Big Al in there as well.

[Evantime34]

Well....

(healthy) Chris Paul >>>> Rondo
(healthy) Butler probably = to Pierce these days
Griffin is probably the best PF in the league... probably  >> KG at this point
We have a shooting guard (Ray)... they have a center (Jordan)...

Nothing about the Clippers would shock me.  I could totally seem them being contenders.

It also wouldn't shock me if the Celtics were a lotto team this year.

On one hand you are extremely pessimistic, on the other hand you are probably going to end up happy when they excede expectations.

To be honest in this draft I'd much rather have us look like we're going to be in the lottery than be a 6, 7 or 8 seed. If we look awful up to the trading deadline the rebuilding process would start during the season instead of at the end (we'd probably get some good young pieces/picks for KG, Ray and JO, provided them being injured isn't the reason we're bad).

That being said I think we'll win the atlantic as the three seed and go from there.

[JSD]

Roy is right?  Okay, I am kidding.  And while I don't have a link, I am about 100% sure that I am right on this one.

Guys! This is NOT just a LAC pick:
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 In 2012, the Celtics would receive the lesser of the Clippers first-round pick or the T'Wolves' first-round pick (Marko Jaric trade)
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As long as it is outside the top 11.


Which pick is more likely to be outside the top 11?  

Plus, my guess is that the potential of that pick going to Boston was eliminated in their trade.

Since LA essentially got to choose which pick we got -- it was always the worse of the two -- they should be able to say "Never mind.  If that Twolves pick is actually worse than our original pick, we'll eat it".  The protection was in there for the Clippers benefit, not ours, so I'm sure it was struck out.

Im sure too.

At what point is this Clipper pick unprotected? It might make sense for the Celtics to wait 5-7 years at this point...

It is not the Celts choice.  Basically, anytime the pick fall outside the top 10, it goes to the Celts.  No option to refuse it form our end.

That's not how I understood the pick back when the trade went down. Do you have a link or can someone else verify?

As far as I know, droopdog is correct; I haven't heard anything about a rollover option.  The only caveats I've seen regarding the pick are that it's top-10 protected (until something like 2016), and the Clips could have sent us the Twolves pick if both picks fell outside the top 10.

Hmm... so based on that info why is that the assumption? I always thought of this pick like the Denver pick used on the Joe Johnson draft a few years back in that every year the protection decreases and we can use it when we want. That's how I understood it anyway but your probably right, Roy. Bummer...

Hey, I tp'd you too. Twice now. 

[JSD]

It also wouldn't shock me if the Celtics were a lotto team this year.

  Good luck with that one.

Yeah LarBrd33, I'm surprised you would say this. Even with one or two big injuries theywill still snatch the 8th seed... at least.

[LarBrd33]

You've got some nerve saying that Caron Butler is probably equal to Paul Pierce. 

Meh... when healthy Caron Butler has already proven to be a very capable player.  In Washington he was a 20 point, 7 rebound, 5 assist, 2 steal guy... shooting 46% and 90% from the line.  Pierce is getting old.  Pierce is probably still a little better, but I'm not sure it's as wide a gap as you believe.

It also wouldn't shock me if the Celtics were a lotto team this year.

  Good luck with that one.

Shortened season.  We have no center.  Could see KG or Ray going down, get some dumb luck and easily end up in the lotto.  Would it really surprise you that much?  Pierce is 34, KG is 35, Ray is 36.  I don't expect the lotto, but the lotto wouldn't surprise me.

Getting ahead of yourself with Griffin, he needs to harness his potential as a defender/rebounder before he becomes better than KG/Amar'e/Gasol/Bosh. He'll be the best soon, but not yet.

Disagree.  Griffin is the evolutionary Karl Malone.  He was 21 years old and averaged 22.5 points, 12.1 rebounds, 3.8 assists, 1 steal on 50% shooting.  He just kept getting better as the season progressed. If anything he's underrated.  And note he did all of this WITHOUT the greatest point guard alive.  Malone as a 22 year old rookie:  14.9 points, 8.9 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 1 steal 50% shooting.  Malone at age 23:  21.7 points, 10.4 rebounds, 1.9 assists, 1 steal 51% shooting.   Griffin's defense probably could use some improvement... but he's got DeAndre Jordan manning the middle... averaged 7 points, 7 rebounds, 2 blocks in 25 minutes last year... (69% shooting)... Let that guy play full-time starter minutes and watch out.

Do I expect the Clippers to be contenders?  If Chris Paul is healthy, yes... he's otherwordly.  If you look at him statistically, he compares favorably to Isiah Thomas in his prime... second only to maybe Magic Johnson as the greatest (statistical) point guard ever.  Note his pre-injury 2009 season:  22.8 points, 11 assists, 5.6 rebounds, 2.8 steals, 50% shooting, 36% from three, 87% from the line.  UNBELIEVABLE.  Find me a better statistical season from any point guard EVER (not named Magic Johnson).  You add the evolutionary Karl Malone and some key role players... nothing would surprise me about the Clips.

[Fafnir]

Caron Butler's box score numbers end up similar to Pierce, but he gets those numbers by taking more shots and using more possessions than Pierce. He's also less durable and plays worse defense, not to mention that unlike Pierce he's a mediocre 3 Pt shooter only last year was he above average.

His 20,7,5 season you reference was 4 years and a ton of injuries ago.

He's a solid starter when he's on the court, but nothing special. Pierce is still a much more complete player. Not to mention that Butler isn't a spring chicken either, he's 31 years old.

As for us being a lottery team, you cite injury bug as if that means anything. Blake Griffin could blow out his knee again and CP3 could have his knee become injured again as well. Both have very recent issues just like our Big 3, then they'd be a lottery team too right? If you assume the best two players on any team will be lost for a large chunk of the season any team can be viewed as lottery bound.

[Celtics18]

Caron Butler's box score numbers end up similar to Pierce, but he gets those numbers by taking more shots and using more possessions than Pierce. He's also less durable and plays worse defense, not to mention that unlike Pierce he's a mediocre 3 Pt shooter only last year was he above average.

His 20,7,5 season you reference was 4 years and a ton of injuries ago.

He's a solid starter when he's on the court, but nothing special. Pierce is still a much more complete player. Not to mention that Butler isn't a spring chicken either, he's 31 years old.

Thanks.

[Fafnir]

If Chris Paul is healthy, yes... he's otherwordly.  If you look at him statistically, he compares favorably to Isiah Thomas in his prime... second only to maybe Magic Johnson as the greatest (statistical) point guard ever.  Note his pre-injury 2009 season:  22.8 points, 11 assists, 5.6 rebounds, 2.8 steals, 50% shooting, 36% from three, 87% from the line.  UNBELIEVABLE.  Find me a better statistical season from any point guard EVER (not named Magic Johnson).  You add the evolutionary Karl Malone and some key role players... nothing would surprise me about the Clips.

Sadly I doubt we'll ever see that CP3 again, he doesn't have that level of athletic explosiveness anymore. Given the nature of knees and his level of play since then I don't think he'll ever get it back. He's still a franchise level player, but he's no longer MVP caliber.

He or KG should have won the MVP in 2007-2008, both had better seasons than Kobe.

[LarBrd33]

It also wouldn't shock me if the Celtics were a lotto team this year.

  Good luck with that one.

Yeah LarBrd33, I'm surprised you would say this. Even with one or two big injuries theywill still snatch the 8th seed... at least.

I dunno... this team usually stinks post-Christmas.  Last year we went 33-22 after the holiday while healthy.  My point is, an injury here or there, no center... a brutal schedule with no rest and no practice...  it wouldn't be shocking to me to see us miss the playoffs.

[Kane3387]

If Chris Paul is healthy, yes... he's otherwordly.  If you look at him statistically, he compares favorably to Isiah Thomas in his prime... second only to maybe Magic Johnson as the greatest (statistical) point guard ever.  Note his pre-injury 2009 season:  22.8 points, 11 assists, 5.6 rebounds, 2.8 steals, 50% shooting, 36% from three, 87% from the line.  UNBELIEVABLE.  Find me a better statistical season from any point guard EVER (not named Magic Johnson).  You add the evolutionary Karl Malone and some key role players... nothing would surprise me about the Clips.

Sadly I doubt we'll ever see that CP3 again, he doesn't have that level of athletic explosiveness anymore. Given the nature of knees and his level of play since then I don't think he'll ever get it back. He's still a franchise level player, but he's no longer MVP caliber.

He or KG should have won the MVP in 2007-2008, both had better seasons than Kobe.

He could easily win MVP this season in my opinion.

[LarBrd33]

If Chris Paul is healthy, yes... he's otherwordly.  If you look at him statistically, he compares favorably to Isiah Thomas in his prime... second only to maybe Magic Johnson as the greatest (statistical) point guard ever.  Note his pre-injury 2009 season:  22.8 points, 11 assists, 5.6 rebounds, 2.8 steals, 50% shooting, 36% from three, 87% from the line.  UNBELIEVABLE.  Find me a better statistical season from any point guard EVER (not named Magic Johnson).  You add the evolutionary Karl Malone and some key role players... nothing would surprise me about the Clips.

Sadly I doubt we'll ever see that CP3 again, he doesn't have that level of athletic explosiveness anymore. Given the nature of knees and his level of play since then I don't think he'll ever get it back. He's still a franchise level player, but he's no longer MVP caliber.

He or KG should have won the MVP in 2007-2008, both had better seasons than Kobe.

Could be right.  Also previous poster might be right on Caron Butler.  That's why i mention "if healthy"...

I don't expect the Celtics to be in the lotto.  It wouldn't surprise me, though. 

I do, however, expect the CLippers to be really really good.

[Fafnir]

It also wouldn't shock me if the Celtics were a lotto team this year.

  Good luck with that one.

Yeah LarBrd33, I'm surprised you would say this. Even with one or two big injuries theywill still snatch the 8th seed... at least.

I dunno... this team usually stinks post-Christmas.  Last year we went 33-22 after the holiday.  My point is, an injury here or there, no center... a brutal schedule with no rest and no practice...  it wouldn't be shocking to me to see us miss the playoffs.

We're in the Eastern conference, a 33-22 record over the entire season would have gotten us 49 wins and the 5th seed.

To miss the playoffs we'd have to drop to sub .430 ball, do you really see the C's only winning 29 games? I mean its possible, but only with far more catastrophic injuries than can be expected even with an old team.

[Fafnir]

If Chris Paul is healthy, yes... he's otherwordly.  If you look at him statistically, he compares favorably to Isiah Thomas in his prime... second only to maybe Magic Johnson as the greatest (statistical) point guard ever.  Note his pre-injury 2009 season:  22.8 points, 11 assists, 5.6 rebounds, 2.8 steals, 50% shooting, 36% from three, 87% from the line.  UNBELIEVABLE.  Find me a better statistical season from any point guard EVER (not named Magic Johnson).  You add the evolutionary Karl Malone and some key role players... nothing would surprise me about the Clips.

Sadly I doubt we'll ever see that CP3 again, he doesn't have that level of athletic explosiveness anymore. Given the nature of knees and his level of play since then I don't think he'll ever get it back. He's still a franchise level player, but he's no longer MVP caliber.

He or KG should have won the MVP in 2007-2008, both had better seasons than Kobe.

Could be right.  Also previous poster might be right on Caron Butler.  That's why i mention "if healthy"...

I don't expect the Celtics to be in the lotto.  It wouldn't surprise me, though.  

I do, however, expect the CLippers to be really really good.

You should have said "with a time machine". Should I expect KG to perform at 2007-2008 levels if he's healthy, is that reasonable?

I do think the Clippers will be a good team, probably top 6 in the west if things break right for them. But Griffin = Malone, Buttler = Pierce, and the C's being a lottery team is wayyyy to hyperbolic.

[LarBrd33]

If Chris Paul is healthy, yes... he's otherwordly.  If you look at him statistically, he compares favorably to Isiah Thomas in his prime... second only to maybe Magic Johnson as the greatest (statistical) point guard ever.  Note his pre-injury 2009 season:  22.8 points, 11 assists, 5.6 rebounds, 2.8 steals, 50% shooting, 36% from three, 87% from the line.  UNBELIEVABLE.  Find me a better statistical season from any point guard EVER (not named Magic Johnson).  You add the evolutionary Karl Malone and some key role players... nothing would surprise me about the Clips.

Sadly I doubt we'll ever see that CP3 again, he doesn't have that level of athletic explosiveness anymore. Given the nature of knees and his level of play since then I don't think he'll ever get it back. He's still a franchise level player, but he's no longer MVP caliber.

He or KG should have won the MVP in 2007-2008, both had better seasons than Kobe.

Could be right.  Also previous poster might be right on Caron Butler.  That's why i mention "if healthy"...

I don't expect the Celtics to be in the lotto.  It wouldn't surprise me, though.  

I do, however, expect the CLippers to be really really good.

You should have said "with a time machine". Should I expect KG to perform at 2007-2008 levels if he's healthy, is that reasonable?

I do think the Clippers will be a good team, probably top 6 in the west if things break right for them. But Griffin = Malone, Buttler = Pierce, and the C's being a lottery team is wayyyy to hyperbolic.

I don't know... I'm not saying these things to be shocking.  It wasn't long ago that people were comparing Butler to Pierce.  He's not that old.  I guess we're assuming he's toast.

I also don't believe I'm overrating Griffin.  Kid is the whole package. 

And as for Chris Paul... if we can take the time machine back to the playoffs of 2011, I think we're all set.