Celtics moves for 2011-12 offseason

[Kane3387]

If the luxury tax threshold is kept around the $70 mil figure it was last year (and from what I've read this seems to be the case), then it looks like the C's will be fairly limited.

Already at $66 mil with none of the free agents signed (according to Shamsports), just giving Green his QO would put us at $72 mil and over the threshold.  According to Zach Lowe from SI, that would effectively deny us use of the full MLE (available only when it doesn't put a team over $4 mil into the tax) or the LLE (only for non-taxpayers).  All we'd have is a $3 mil mini-MLE, the vet min and I'm assuming the standard raises for our own free agents.

Thus, I'd imagine that Danny's efforts will be to offer modest raises for our own free agents (West and Baby), resign Jeff Green (I'm hoping for him to sign the QO) and try to sign one big man for the mini-MLE.  Then take a few dives into the post-injury big man bargain bin (Joel Przybilla, Etan Thomas) with the vet min.

West, Green, Baby and JO is a pretty talented bench if we can just find a plug for the 5 spot with starters.

My favorite big man target in the mini-MLE range is Chuck Hayes.  The guy plays tremendous defense in the paint.  Great lower body strength, good footwork, quick hands, great discipline.  Like Baby, he's nimble enough to make a swift rotation and cut off a ballhandler.  Unlike Baby, he can rebound the heck out of the ball, make a decent outlet pass and pass the ball.  Also unlike Baby he can't shoot.  But a great guy to have on such an injury riddled big man rotation.  Houston probably won't let him go.

One thing I didn't read above was a mention of an amnesty clause though. Like others have mentioned those guys will ALREADY be getting paid, so a vet. min. deal wouldn't be a bad deal at all for those players.

Everything you mentioned above however is very realistic and likely how everything plays out. Chuck Hayes more then likely remains in Houston but since they have already committed a lot of money to Scola he might not.

I think Kwame is likely the "most bang for your buck" guy we can get. I think he and JO would be a decent 1-2 center punch, especially when KG will be playing some C as well. The mini MLE might be enough to sign him.

After getting a guy like Hayes or Kwame I think we look at bringing guys back. I can see West and BBD being brought back for one more year at a slight raise. Hopefully BBD has learned his lesson about being selfish and realized his 2010 style of play will get him paid higher then his 2011 style of play will. Green will likely be brought back on the QO. We have Jajuan Johnson as our project big and Moore is at least a camp invite NBDL prospect.

I would like to see Murphy brought back at the vet. min. or whatever kind of raise we can give him. Veterans like Kurt Thomas and Grant Hill would be really nice fits too, but I can see them staying put.

That being said i think we are closer then people think. By the time December 25th comes around this team would have had almost 8 months in between meaningful games. They will be well rested and should be ready for one last run. The core is returning with Doc and the Big 4. We will finally get to see what Green can bring to this team. I expect he will be sixth man but play starters minutes. Only a hand full of teams can put as talented a lineup on the court like we can with Green and the big 4. Green sounds focused:

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/basketball/celtics/view.bg?articleid=1383144&format=text

Starters - Rondo, Ray, Pierce, KG, JO/<Kwame>
Bench - Delonte, Green, Bradley, JJ, BBD, JO/<Kwame>

As is always the case Health will mean everything. Yet with the managing of minutes in a shortened season, we might have more luck in that department. Record and HCA aren't that important to us. I firmly believe that in 2010 we could have been the eighth seed and made it to the finals.

Were definitely not the favorites but were contenders and a team to be reckoned with ala Dallas of last year.

[Celtics18]

I'd be happy with bringing back last year's team, plus the rookies:

Starters:

Rondo
Allen
Pierce
Garnett
J. O'Neal

Bench:

Arroyo
West
Green
Davis
Krstic

Deep bench:

Bradley
Moore
Pavlovic
Johnson
Murphy

I don't know it that's feasible.  The primary sticking point is Curly.  He's a well paid starter and main guy for a championship contender in a country close to his home.  I don't know if he has any thoughts about leaving and coming back to the Celtics.

I don't even know if we'd be able to afford all those guys under the new rules.  

The above team is a legit contender in my view, though.  If everybody's willing to give it another run, I don't see any reason to shake things up.

We got run out of Miami then and we will be another year older. I'm in the mindset that had Shaq been available and Rondo had not broken his arm, we win that series. But we won't have Shaq next year and I doubt the rooks make any real impact soon (love to be wrong about that but JJ needs to put on a lot of weight before he can be a real NBA player).

We need someone else to spark this team. Green should be more comfortable, but surely if we keep BBD he will cause problem either on or off the court. I'm fine with Arroyo/West/Green as out backup backcourt, but we still need some help up front after KG and a fragile (but clearly effective when healthy) JO. I'd be willing to go with Murphy again as he can't possibly be as ineffective as he was last season. But I don't know if Green at PF or more BBD is the answer behind KG, who I feel will only be able to give us ~28 MPG at his intense level. We need around 20 minutes a game at PF IMO, and I don't know right now what the answer is.

Isn't Krstic gone? I thought he didn't get an opt-out clause in his contract.

I think you are right about Krstic.  He's not coming back.  I'd love to get Sammy D., but he's likely out of our price range.  Even Kwame Brown might be a stretch.  

I actually think that Murph and Baby could be a decent back up big combination, with Baby guarding centers and Murphy taking the power forward.  I think we'll have no choice but to throw JaJuan to the wolves a little and see how he handles it.  I like him and he was always the guy I wanted at 27.  The only concern is his lower body strength, but, again, if you pair him with Baby that might be a good fit, as well.

We'll definitely need one more big, though, regardless.  I'd settle for Kyrylo Fesenko.

[snively]

If the luxury tax threshold is kept around the $70 mil figure it was last year (and from what I've read this seems to be the case), then it looks like the C's will be fairly limited.

Already at $66 mil with none of the free agents signed (according to Shamsports), just giving Green his QO would put us at $72 mil and over the threshold.  According to Zach Lowe from SI, that would effectively deny us use of the full MLE (available only when it doesn't put a team over $4 mil into the tax) or the LLE (only for non-taxpayers).  All we'd have is a $3 mil mini-MLE, the vet min and I'm assuming the standard raises for our own free agents.

Thus, I'd imagine that Danny's efforts will be to offer modest raises for our own free agents (West and Baby), resign Jeff Green (I'm hoping for him to sign the QO) and try to sign one big man for the mini-MLE.  Then take a few dives into the post-injury big man bargain bin (Joel Przybilla, Etan Thomas) with the vet min.

West, Green, Baby and JO is a pretty talented bench if we can just find a plug for the 5 spot with starters.

My favorite big man target in the mini-MLE range is Chuck Hayes.  The guy plays tremendous defense in the paint.  Great lower body strength, good footwork, quick hands, great discipline.  Like Baby, he's nimble enough to make a swift rotation and cut off a ballhandler.  Unlike Baby, he can rebound the heck out of the ball, make a decent outlet pass and pass the ball.  Also unlike Baby he can't shoot.  But a great guy to have on such an injury riddled big man rotation.  Houston probably won't let him go.

One thing I didn't read above was a mention of an amnesty clause though. Like others have mentioned those guys will ALREADY be getting paid, so a vet. min. deal wouldn't be a bad deal at all for those players.

Good point.  Just not much big man quality on the potential amnesty list to my knowledge.  Diop?

[Kane3387]

Maybe Mehmet Okur.

Utah is already paying big money to Jefferson and Milsap. They also have Kanter and Favors who need minutes. I just don't see the point in paying a guy 10 million when he might not get too many minutes.

Maybe Brendan Haywood.

Dallas from what I have read will have issues bringing everyone back. The tax payments are more harsh and if they want to bring back both Chandler and Butler then they might have to move Brendan to create space. Mahinmi played alright in the finals.

Other guys who are possibilities are Biendrins, Milicic, Birdman, Blatche, Okafor.

The guys above while unlikely can all have the argument made for that they should be let go while possible to do so.

Tim Kawakami: Amnesty: Warriors won't drop David Lee, will think about Andris Biedrins, but probably will go small-scale and drop Charlie Bell. Twitter

[LooseCannon]

I say no to Kenyon Martin.  He's older and not particularly healthier than Jermaine O'Neal.  It's probably a tossup as to who will play more games this season.

There's not really much there in terms of veteran centers for the MLE or less.  Using the MLE, if necessary, to bring back Troy Murphy and penciling him in to be used more as a center than power forward might be better than using it to sign a center in the Celtics' price range.

I'd like to see the Celtics sign an under-the-radar D-Leaguer or undrafted rookie free agent as a third-string center instead of going for a minimum salary veteran in the Tony Battie/Francisco Elson class of player.

[Celtics18]

Maybe Mehmet Okur.

Utah is already paying big money to Jefferson and Milsap. They also have Kanter and Favors who need minutes. I just don't see the point in paying a guy 10 million when he might not get too many minutes.

Maybe Brendan Haywood.

Dallas from what I have read will have issues bringing everyone back. The tax payments are more harsh and if they want to bring back both Chandler and Butler then they might have to move Brendan to create space. Mahinmi played alright in the finals.

Other guys who are possibilities are Biendrins, Milicic, Birdman, Blatche, Okafor.

The guys above while unlikely can all have the argument made for that they should be let go while possible to do so.

Tim Kawakami: Amnesty: Warriors won't drop David Lee, will think about Andris Biedrins, but probably will go small-scale and drop Charlie Bell. Twitter

That's a nice list of possible bargain bigs if they get amnestied from their clubs.  What's Okur's health like?  If he were healthy, I think he'd fit in really nicely.  

[Kane3387]

If the luxury tax threshold is kept around the $70 mil figure it was last year (and from what I've read this seems to be the case), then it looks like the C's will be fairly limited.

Already at $66 mil with none of the free agents signed (according to Shamsports), just giving Green his QO would put us at $72 mil and over the threshold.  According to Zach Lowe from SI, that would effectively deny us use of the full MLE (available only when it doesn't put a team over $4 mil into the tax) or the LLE (only for non-taxpayers).  All we'd have is a $3 mil mini-MLE, the vet min and I'm assuming the standard raises for our own free agents.

Thus, I'd imagine that Danny's efforts will be to offer modest raises for our own free agents (West and Baby), resign Jeff Green (I'm hoping for him to sign the QO) and try to sign one big man for the mini-MLE.  Then take a few dives into the post-injury big man bargain bin (Joel Przybilla, Etan Thomas) with the vet min.

Very realistic scenario.

My favorite big man target in the mini-MLE range is Chuck Hayes.  The guy plays tremendous defense in the paint.  Great lower body strength, good footwork, quick hands, great discipline.  Like Baby, he's nimble enough to make a swift rotation and cut off a ballhandler.  Unlike Baby, he can rebound the heck out of the ball, make a decent outlet pass and pass the ball.  Also unlike Baby he can't shoot.  But a great guy to have on such an injury riddled big man rotation.  Houston probably won't let him go.

Chuck Hayes would be a Godsend to this team, great lockerroom guy, one of the most underrated defenders in the league (who can defend the 4 or 5, unlike Baby, who works best with the bullies as long as he can keep them from gaining post position), and that's why Houston will 100% sign him for a contract exceeding the mini-MLE.

Maybe not IP...

See this link. If Nene goes to Houston then Hayes might be allowed to walk.

http://blog.chron.com/sportsjustice/2011/11/rockets-will-target-nene-in-free-agency-and-if-they-dont-get-him-will-consider-a-full-blown-reconstruction/

[Kane3387]

Also this year more then any other it could seem that agents push their guys to teams with the mini-MLE. The Celtics could be a perfect team to do that to this year because they are likely to use the stretch exception to create more cap room for the re-build.

Apparently agents are thinking the same thing.

Sean Deveney: I've yet to talk to an agent who isn't intrigued by the "stretch" ex. Get your guy waived, he gets paid, you sign him somewhere better ... Twitter

A player signs a three year 9 million dollar deal with Boston. We use the stretch exception on him after this year to create more cap space to go after higher impact players. That player in turn signs with another team next year, gets paid by Boston and his new team, and then the player and agent both make more money.

[Liam W]

Maybe Mehmet Okur.

Utah is already paying big money to Jefferson and Milsap. They also have Kanter and Favors who need minutes. I just don't see the point in paying a guy 10 million when he might not get too many minutes.

Maybe Brendan Haywood.

Dallas from what I have read will have issues bringing everyone back. The tax payments are more harsh and if they want to bring back both Chandler and Butler then they might have to move Brendan to create space. Mahinmi played alright in the finals.

Other guys who are possibilities are Biendrins, Milicic, Birdman, Blatche, Okafor.

The guys above while unlikely can all have the argument made for that they should be let go while possible to do so.

Tim Kawakami: Amnesty: Warriors won't drop David Lee, will think about Andris Biedrins, but probably will go small-scale and drop Charlie Bell. Twitter

We cant take on more payroll as were already way over the cap. Eddy Curry is available as is Kwame Brown + Desgana Diop

All pretty decent for the minimum, Id take Brown over Curry and Diop as he had a pretty good season last year

I think Danny has something up his sleeve because this roster needs blowing up and starting over

Sometimes you need to burn down the house and build it back up from scratch, and thats the case with the Celtics

[Jon]

I am somewhat sick of BBD; however, given the harsher FA landscape under the new deal, there shouldn't be much of a market for him. And given that the season starts in less than a month, his familiarity with the team and system becomes even more of an asset.

The downside is that he's not a particularly good fit with Green, especially if we want Green to get minutes at the 4 (which he must have if we want him to get enough PT to be effective).

The answer might also be to have KG play some more 5. If you had him play half of his 32 minutes at the 5 spot, you'd largely solve the backup 5 problem AND you'd utilize the talent we currently have best by freeing up 32 minutes of PT per game at the 4 spot for Green and/or Baby.

Beyond that, I wouldn't sleep on Troy Murphy, Sasha Pavlovic, and Carlos Arroyo.  The two challenges this year for us will be to overcome a short training camp and to know that there likely won't be another chance with this group. Thus, having guys who already know the system and the team are especially important for us, so there won't be an adjustment period.

We dont want green to get minutes at the 4, hes a 3. He struggled at the 4. PP, JG, and RA should get all of the minutes at the 2,3, positons. KG playing the 5 against the majority of centers is not preferable either.

I completely disagree with both assertions.  It was thinking like this that made all sorts of stiffs like Sagana Diop and Todd Fuller lottery picks with the thinking they could "matchup" with Shaq due to size.  All that did was make Shaq's job easier since he could still kill them offensively, but could sleep defensively. 

Same goes with Green and KG at the 4 and 5 respectively.  Could they get knocked around a bit?  Sure, but will they be able to run circles around their opponents on the other end?  Absolutely.  Obie proved you could exploit matchups like that when he started 6-6 Rodney Rodgers at center against Dikembe Mutombo.  And exactly how many dominant big men are there out there who are going to exploit us inside with their strength?  Howard?  And he's not even that polished offensively.  Most teams don't have players who can take advantage of us going small. 

Would I love them to get Nene to play center for us?  Sure.  But that's not likely to happen.  And I'd rather see KG get minutes at the 5, and Green minutes at the 4 than play "big" players who should have their butts stuck on the bench. 

[CoachBo]

Agreed, Jon. It's a workable option that deserves a close look.

[indeedproceed]

Rockets are 'going all out' for Nene.

I really hope they land him, and trade Scola for a better SF

Lowry/Martin/?/Patterson/Nene would be a fun team to watch out West.

[indeedproceed]

Can we get us some Reggie Williams, please?

[barefacedmonk]

Can we get us some Reggie Williams, please?

He is playing in Spain and his Spanish team is paying him more than the Warriors did...plus they also pay his income tax (so its tax free money), house and use of car with a driver. I don't know if he'll come back this season.

[birdwatcher]

I bet our team will look a lot like it has in the last two years, bringin back guys who are familiar with the system since like the NFL, we are screwed with out a proper training camp. Delonte, Marquis and possibly Baby will be back, but I hope we forgo Baby and sign Reggie Evans, JaJuan Johnson and a backup PG. The final spot could go to another center or a 2.