Define "building around". Why do they keep saying we can't build around Rondo?

[cman88]

The thing is, Rondo is more of a cornerstone than a building block...Allstar point guards dont grow on trees...and one thing we've seen in the NBA is that talent attracts talent..both OJ mayo and Josh smith have stated they'd love to play with rondo..and both become free agents relatively soon.

Mayo may be a headcase who averaged 11pts a game last year... but the year before he averaged 17.5ppg...45% and 38% from 3. maybe he needs a coach like Doc to reel him in.

and whomever we sign buying into playing elite defense is what will determine the celtics success...look at the bulls..they went from an "ok team" to Elite mainly because of Thibs getting them to buy into defense

[CaptainJackLee]

^^
He isn't good enough to be the best player in a title team.

Rondo, Mayo and Smith is nowhere near the core of a contender - not easy to build around those 3. Rondo and Mayo together would fatally wound your desire to play elite defense, btw. You'd need either a MVP type of player like Howard or Durant or two very good players to fill the 3 and 5 spots. Bogut and Granger - that would be enough to make them favourites.

[PosImpos]

Can we or can we not acquire pieces to construct a facsimile of the 2008 champs in the '12 free agency with OJ Mayo and Robin Lopez being a more athletic Ray Allen and a longer Perk respectively?

It's not really realistic to project that team to mirror the '08 team.

Pierce is 4 years older.  KG is either gone, or 4 years older.  Lopez was terrible last year, and wasn't as good as Perk.  O.J. Mayo is nowhere near as good as Ray, and certainly doesn't have his clutch ability.

I think Lopez would be pretty similar to Perkins on the Celtics (if KG is still around).  He isn't quite the banger Perk is, but he is more mobile and more a threat offensively.  If KG is still around, I think they compliment each other well.

Mayo isn't the shooter Allen is, no question, but he is much more athletic and provides different sort of matchup problems for opposing defenses. 

Rondo is better then he was.  Pierce is still money down the stretch, but Mayo would definitely have to provide more throughout the course of a game then Allen would have, and I'm  ok with that.

With all that said, that team isn't beating the Heat.  The Heat are just too good.  For the Celtics to beat the Heat in a series, they need a premier player, preferably in the post.  Dwight Howard would certainly fill that role.

  When the Celts were healthy last year they were as good as the Mavs.

Except for the fact that even healthy, the Celtics still lacked a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in the playoffs many times.

Without Dirk being unstoppable at times, the Mavs wouldn't have even made the Finals.

[BballTim]

Can we or can we not acquire pieces to construct a facsimile of the 2008 champs in the '12 free agency with OJ Mayo and Robin Lopez being a more athletic Ray Allen and a longer Perk respectively?

It's not really realistic to project that team to mirror the '08 team.

Pierce is 4 years older.  KG is either gone, or 4 years older.  Lopez was terrible last year, and wasn't as good as Perk.  O.J. Mayo is nowhere near as good as Ray, and certainly doesn't have his clutch ability.

I think Lopez would be pretty similar to Perkins on the Celtics (if KG is still around).  He isn't quite the banger Perk is, but he is more mobile and more a threat offensively.  If KG is still around, I think they compliment each other well.

Mayo isn't the shooter Allen is, no question, but he is much more athletic and provides different sort of matchup problems for opposing defenses. 

Rondo is better then he was.  Pierce is still money down the stretch, but Mayo would definitely have to provide more throughout the course of a game then Allen would have, and I'm  ok with that.

With all that said, that team isn't beating the Heat.  The Heat are just too good.  For the Celtics to beat the Heat in a series, they need a premier player, preferably in the post.  Dwight Howard would certainly fill that role.

  When the Celts were healthy last year they were as good as the Mavs.

Except for the fact that even healthy, the Celtics still lacked a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in the playoffs many times.

Without Dirk being unstoppable at times, the Mavs wouldn't have even made the Finals.

  We didn't have a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in 2010 and we went to game 7 of the finals. It's also true that Dallas doesn't have our defense. You don't need to be exactly like Dallas to win.

[Kane3387]

Can we or can we not acquire pieces to construct a facsimile of the 2008 champs in the '12 free agency with OJ Mayo and Robin Lopez being a more athletic Ray Allen and a longer Perk respectively?

It's not really realistic to project that team to mirror the '08 team.

Pierce is 4 years older.  KG is either gone, or 4 years older.  Lopez was terrible last year, and wasn't as good as Perk.  O.J. Mayo is nowhere near as good as Ray, and certainly doesn't have his clutch ability.

I think Lopez would be pretty similar to Perkins on the Celtics (if KG is still around).  He isn't quite the banger Perk is, but he is more mobile and more a threat offensively.  If KG is still around, I think they compliment each other well.

Mayo isn't the shooter Allen is, no question, but he is much more athletic and provides different sort of matchup problems for opposing defenses. 

Rondo is better then he was.  Pierce is still money down the stretch, but Mayo would definitely have to provide more throughout the course of a game then Allen would have, and I'm  ok with that.

With all that said, that team isn't beating the Heat.  The Heat are just too good.  For the Celtics to beat the Heat in a series, they need a premier player, preferably in the post.  Dwight Howard would certainly fill that role.

  When the Celts were healthy last year they were as good as the Mavs.

Except for the fact that even healthy, the Celtics still lacked a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in the playoffs many times.

Without Dirk being unstoppable at times, the Mavs wouldn't have even made the Finals.

  We didn't have a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in 2010 and we went to game 7 of the finals. It's also true that Dallas doesn't have our defense. You don't need to be exactly like Dallas to win.

A healthy Boston Team pre trade was a horrible matchup for Dallas. KG is the best option in the NBA for guarding Dirk. Rondo would have torched Kidd on offense. Shaq, JO, and Perk would have been too much for Chandler and Haywood. The Mavs weakness was at 2 guard. They would have no one to chase Ray Allen because that's not Terry's game. Pierce would have been better then Butler/Marion.

It would have been a good series but assuming full health for both teams Boston was simply better and deeper.

Sadly that's not how it worked out.

[Moranis]

Can we or can we not acquire pieces to construct a facsimile of the 2008 champs in the '12 free agency with OJ Mayo and Robin Lopez being a more athletic Ray Allen and a longer Perk respectively?

It's not really realistic to project that team to mirror the '08 team.

Pierce is 4 years older.  KG is either gone, or 4 years older.  Lopez was terrible last year, and wasn't as good as Perk.  O.J. Mayo is nowhere near as good as Ray, and certainly doesn't have his clutch ability.

I think Lopez would be pretty similar to Perkins on the Celtics (if KG is still around).  He isn't quite the banger Perk is, but he is more mobile and more a threat offensively.  If KG is still around, I think they compliment each other well.

Mayo isn't the shooter Allen is, no question, but he is much more athletic and provides different sort of matchup problems for opposing defenses. 

Rondo is better then he was.  Pierce is still money down the stretch, but Mayo would definitely have to provide more throughout the course of a game then Allen would have, and I'm  ok with that.

With all that said, that team isn't beating the Heat.  The Heat are just too good.  For the Celtics to beat the Heat in a series, they need a premier player, preferably in the post.  Dwight Howard would certainly fill that role.

  When the Celts were healthy last year they were as good as the Mavs.

Except for the fact that even healthy, the Celtics still lacked a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in the playoffs many times.

Without Dirk being unstoppable at times, the Mavs wouldn't have even made the Finals.

  We didn't have a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in 2010 and we went to game 7 of the finals. It's also true that Dallas doesn't have our defense. You don't need to be exactly like Dallas to win.

A healthy Boston Team pre trade was a horrible matchup for Dallas. KG is the best option in the NBA for guarding Dirk. Rondo would have torched Kidd on offense. Shaq, JO, and Perk would have been too much for Chandler and Haywood. The Mavs weakness was at 2 guard. They would have no one to chase Ray Allen because that's not Terry's game. Pierce would have been better then Butler/Marion.

It would have been a good series but assuming full health for both teams Boston was simply better and deeper.

Sadly that's not how it worked out.

C's wouldn't have gotten by the Heat.

[PosImpos]

Can we or can we not acquire pieces to construct a facsimile of the 2008 champs in the '12 free agency with OJ Mayo and Robin Lopez being a more athletic Ray Allen and a longer Perk respectively?

It's not really realistic to project that team to mirror the '08 team.

Pierce is 4 years older.  KG is either gone, or 4 years older.  Lopez was terrible last year, and wasn't as good as Perk.  O.J. Mayo is nowhere near as good as Ray, and certainly doesn't have his clutch ability.

I think Lopez would be pretty similar to Perkins on the Celtics (if KG is still around).  He isn't quite the banger Perk is, but he is more mobile and more a threat offensively.  If KG is still around, I think they compliment each other well.

Mayo isn't the shooter Allen is, no question, but he is much more athletic and provides different sort of matchup problems for opposing defenses.  

Rondo is better then he was.  Pierce is still money down the stretch, but Mayo would definitely have to provide more throughout the course of a game then Allen would have, and I'm  ok with that.

With all that said, that team isn't beating the Heat.  The Heat are just too good.  For the Celtics to beat the Heat in a series, they need a premier player, preferably in the post.  Dwight Howard would certainly fill that role.

  When the Celts were healthy last year they were as good as the Mavs.

Except for the fact that even healthy, the Celtics still lacked a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in the playoffs many times.

Without Dirk being unstoppable at times, the Mavs wouldn't have even made the Finals.

  We didn't have a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in 2010 and we went to game 7 of the finals. It's also true that Dallas doesn't have our defense. You don't need to be exactly like Dallas to win.

The C's got to Game 7 of the Finals and lost after leading by 14 points because they couldn't score to save their lives.


Getting close and failing doesn't mean you had what it takes to win.


No, not every team that wants to win a championship has to be like Dallas, but how many teams have won the NBA championship without a player who can take over and be unstoppable at times?

[BballTim]

Can we or can we not acquire pieces to construct a facsimile of the 2008 champs in the '12 free agency with OJ Mayo and Robin Lopez being a more athletic Ray Allen and a longer Perk respectively?

It's not really realistic to project that team to mirror the '08 team.

Pierce is 4 years older.  KG is either gone, or 4 years older.  Lopez was terrible last year, and wasn't as good as Perk.  O.J. Mayo is nowhere near as good as Ray, and certainly doesn't have his clutch ability.

I think Lopez would be pretty similar to Perkins on the Celtics (if KG is still around).  He isn't quite the banger Perk is, but he is more mobile and more a threat offensively.  If KG is still around, I think they compliment each other well.

Mayo isn't the shooter Allen is, no question, but he is much more athletic and provides different sort of matchup problems for opposing defenses. 

Rondo is better then he was.  Pierce is still money down the stretch, but Mayo would definitely have to provide more throughout the course of a game then Allen would have, and I'm  ok with that.

With all that said, that team isn't beating the Heat.  The Heat are just too good.  For the Celtics to beat the Heat in a series, they need a premier player, preferably in the post.  Dwight Howard would certainly fill that role.

  When the Celts were healthy last year they were as good as the Mavs.

Except for the fact that even healthy, the Celtics still lacked a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in the playoffs many times.

Without Dirk being unstoppable at times, the Mavs wouldn't have even made the Finals.

  We didn't have a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in 2010 and we went to game 7 of the finals. It's also true that Dallas doesn't have our defense. You don't need to be exactly like Dallas to win.

A healthy Boston Team pre trade was a horrible matchup for Dallas. KG is the best option in the NBA for guarding Dirk. Rondo would have torched Kidd on offense. Shaq, JO, and Perk would have been too much for Chandler and Haywood. The Mavs weakness was at 2 guard. They would have no one to chase Ray Allen because that's not Terry's game. Pierce would have been better then Butler/Marion.

It would have been a good series but assuming full health for both teams Boston was simply better and deeper.

Sadly that's not how it worked out.

C's wouldn't have gotten by the Heat.

  If Rondo was healthy we'd have gone back to Miami 2-2 with plenty of momentum. That's hardly the dire situation you seem to think it is.

[PosImpos]

Can we or can we not acquire pieces to construct a facsimile of the 2008 champs in the '12 free agency with OJ Mayo and Robin Lopez being a more athletic Ray Allen and a longer Perk respectively?

It's not really realistic to project that team to mirror the '08 team.

Pierce is 4 years older.  KG is either gone, or 4 years older.  Lopez was terrible last year, and wasn't as good as Perk.  O.J. Mayo is nowhere near as good as Ray, and certainly doesn't have his clutch ability.

I think Lopez would be pretty similar to Perkins on the Celtics (if KG is still around).  He isn't quite the banger Perk is, but he is more mobile and more a threat offensively.  If KG is still around, I think they compliment each other well.

Mayo isn't the shooter Allen is, no question, but he is much more athletic and provides different sort of matchup problems for opposing defenses. 

Rondo is better then he was.  Pierce is still money down the stretch, but Mayo would definitely have to provide more throughout the course of a game then Allen would have, and I'm  ok with that.

With all that said, that team isn't beating the Heat.  The Heat are just too good.  For the Celtics to beat the Heat in a series, they need a premier player, preferably in the post.  Dwight Howard would certainly fill that role.

  When the Celts were healthy last year they were as good as the Mavs.

Except for the fact that even healthy, the Celtics still lacked a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in the playoffs many times.

Without Dirk being unstoppable at times, the Mavs wouldn't have even made the Finals.

  We didn't have a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in 2010 and we went to game 7 of the finals. It's also true that Dallas doesn't have our defense. You don't need to be exactly like Dallas to win.

A healthy Boston Team pre trade was a horrible matchup for Dallas. KG is the best option in the NBA for guarding Dirk. Rondo would have torched Kidd on offense. Shaq, JO, and Perk would have been too much for Chandler and Haywood. The Mavs weakness was at 2 guard. They would have no one to chase Ray Allen because that's not Terry's game. Pierce would have been better then Butler/Marion.

It would have been a good series but assuming full health for both teams Boston was simply better and deeper.

Sadly that's not how it worked out.

From what I recall, the meetings between the C's and Mavs in the regular season didn't really bear out this notion that the Celtics were a terrible matchup for the Mavs.


Actually, Rondo tends to struggle against bigger guards who can back him down (Kidd), Shawn Marion would have given Pierce, our number 1 offensive option, a difficult time at both ends (flashes of Artest in 2010), Terry clearly could have matched Ray Allen shot for shot -- not to mention that DeShawn could have played him very tough (again, Artest).  Chandler would have taken advantage of our lack of size inside. 

Dirk, of course, was simply unstoppable, even for a player like KG.  Dirk wouldn't have had to work hard to defend KG on the other end, either (at this point KG is easier to defend than Bosh).


If anything, I think the Mavs match up quite well with the Celtics, unless, perhaps, Shaq is healthy and productive.

[BballTim]

Can we or can we not acquire pieces to construct a facsimile of the 2008 champs in the '12 free agency with OJ Mayo and Robin Lopez being a more athletic Ray Allen and a longer Perk respectively?

It's not really realistic to project that team to mirror the '08 team.

Pierce is 4 years older.  KG is either gone, or 4 years older.  Lopez was terrible last year, and wasn't as good as Perk.  O.J. Mayo is nowhere near as good as Ray, and certainly doesn't have his clutch ability.

I think Lopez would be pretty similar to Perkins on the Celtics (if KG is still around).  He isn't quite the banger Perk is, but he is more mobile and more a threat offensively.  If KG is still around, I think they compliment each other well.

Mayo isn't the shooter Allen is, no question, but he is much more athletic and provides different sort of matchup problems for opposing defenses.  

Rondo is better then he was.  Pierce is still money down the stretch, but Mayo would definitely have to provide more throughout the course of a game then Allen would have, and I'm  ok with that.

With all that said, that team isn't beating the Heat.  The Heat are just too good.  For the Celtics to beat the Heat in a series, they need a premier player, preferably in the post.  Dwight Howard would certainly fill that role.

  When the Celts were healthy last year they were as good as the Mavs.

Except for the fact that even healthy, the Celtics still lacked a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in the playoffs many times.

Without Dirk being unstoppable at times, the Mavs wouldn't have even made the Finals.

  We didn't have a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in 2010 and we went to game 7 of the finals. It's also true that Dallas doesn't have our defense. You don't need to be exactly like Dallas to win.

The C's got to Game 7 of the Finals and lost after leading by 14 points because they couldn't score to save their lives.


Getting close and failing doesn't mean you had what it takes to win.


No, not every team that wants to win a championship has to be like Dallas, but how many teams have won the NBA championship without a player who can take over and be unstoppable at times?

  Saying a team that loses a game 7 by 4 without their starting center doesn't have what it takes to win is ridiculous. And every team has players that can take over and be unstoppable at times. Look at how Rondo took over the 4th quarter in game 2 or against Cleveland, how Ray was unstoppable earlier in game 2. Look st Paul's play in the Magic series. It wasn't the same player every game, but it was fairly effective. What matters isn't how closely you resemble previous champions, what matters is whether you can win or not. The Celts fell just short for a variety of reasons, and any of them going the other way would have been enough to win.


  

[BballTim]

Can we or can we not acquire pieces to construct a facsimile of the 2008 champs in the '12 free agency with OJ Mayo and Robin Lopez being a more athletic Ray Allen and a longer Perk respectively?

It's not really realistic to project that team to mirror the '08 team.

Pierce is 4 years older.  KG is either gone, or 4 years older.  Lopez was terrible last year, and wasn't as good as Perk.  O.J. Mayo is nowhere near as good as Ray, and certainly doesn't have his clutch ability.

I think Lopez would be pretty similar to Perkins on the Celtics (if KG is still around).  He isn't quite the banger Perk is, but he is more mobile and more a threat offensively.  If KG is still around, I think they compliment each other well.

Mayo isn't the shooter Allen is, no question, but he is much more athletic and provides different sort of matchup problems for opposing defenses.  

Rondo is better then he was.  Pierce is still money down the stretch, but Mayo would definitely have to provide more throughout the course of a game then Allen would have, and I'm  ok with that.

With all that said, that team isn't beating the Heat.  The Heat are just too good.  For the Celtics to beat the Heat in a series, they need a premier player, preferably in the post.  Dwight Howard would certainly fill that role.

  When the Celts were healthy last year they were as good as the Mavs.

Except for the fact that even healthy, the Celtics still lacked a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in the playoffs many times.

Without Dirk being unstoppable at times, the Mavs wouldn't have even made the Finals.

  We didn't have a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in 2010 and we went to game 7 of the finals. It's also true that Dallas doesn't have our defense. You don't need to be exactly like Dallas to win.

A healthy Boston Team pre trade was a horrible matchup for Dallas. KG is the best option in the NBA for guarding Dirk. Rondo would have torched Kidd on offense. Shaq, JO, and Perk would have been too much for Chandler and Haywood. The Mavs weakness was at 2 guard. They would have no one to chase Ray Allen because that's not Terry's game. Pierce would have been better then Butler/Marion.

It would have been a good series but assuming full health for both teams Boston was simply better and deeper.

Sadly that's not how it worked out.

From what I recall, the meetings between the C's and Mavs in the regular season didn't really bear out this notion that the Celtics were a terrible matchup for the Mavs.


Actually, Rondo tends to struggle against bigger guards who can back him down (Kidd), Shawn Marion would have given Pierce, our number 1 offensive option, a difficult time at both ends (flashes of Artest in 2010), Terry clearly could have matched Ray Allen shot for shot -- not to mention that DeShawn could have played him very tough (again, Artest).  Chandler would have taken advantage of our lack of size inside.  

Dirk, of course, was simply unstoppable, even for a player like KG.  Dirk wouldn't have had to work hard to defend KG on the other end, either (at this point KG is easier to defend than Bosh).


If anything, I think the Mavs match up quite well with the Celtics, unless, perhaps, Shaq is healthy and productive.

  Jason Kidd attempted a total of 50 shots at the rim this season, and that includes any fast break layups he may have been involved with. He's almost exclusively a three point spot up shooter. We're really worried that he's going to beat Rondo by backing him down? And which bigger guards gave Rondo so much trouble in the post last year? According to those synergy numbers Roy found, Rondo's among the best in the league in post up and isolation situations.

  Edit: Also, PP has averaged 26.3 a game vs Marion's teams throughout his career. So, not like Artest in 2010.

[Kane3387]

Can we or can we not acquire pieces to construct a facsimile of the 2008 champs in the '12 free agency with OJ Mayo and Robin Lopez being a more athletic Ray Allen and a longer Perk respectively?

It's not really realistic to project that team to mirror the '08 team.

Pierce is 4 years older.  KG is either gone, or 4 years older.  Lopez was terrible last year, and wasn't as good as Perk.  O.J. Mayo is nowhere near as good as Ray, and certainly doesn't have his clutch ability.

I think Lopez would be pretty similar to Perkins on the Celtics (if KG is still around).  He isn't quite the banger Perk is, but he is more mobile and more a threat offensively.  If KG is still around, I think they compliment each other well.

Mayo isn't the shooter Allen is, no question, but he is much more athletic and provides different sort of matchup problems for opposing defenses.  

Rondo is better then he was.  Pierce is still money down the stretch, but Mayo would definitely have to provide more throughout the course of a game then Allen would have, and I'm  ok with that.

With all that said, that team isn't beating the Heat.  The Heat are just too good.  For the Celtics to beat the Heat in a series, they need a premier player, preferably in the post.  Dwight Howard would certainly fill that role.

  When the Celts were healthy last year they were as good as the Mavs.

Except for the fact that even healthy, the Celtics still lacked a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in the playoffs many times.

Without Dirk being unstoppable at times, the Mavs wouldn't have even made the Finals.

  We didn't have a go-to scorer who could take over offensively the way that Dirk did in 2010 and we went to game 7 of the finals. It's also true that Dallas doesn't have our defense. You don't need to be exactly like Dallas to win.

A healthy Boston Team pre trade was a horrible matchup for Dallas. KG is the best option in the NBA for guarding Dirk. Rondo would have torched Kidd on offense. Shaq, JO, and Perk would have been too much for Chandler and Haywood. The Mavs weakness was at 2 guard. They would have no one to chase Ray Allen because that's not Terry's game. Pierce would have been better then Butler/Marion.

It would have been a good series but assuming full health for both teams Boston was simply better and deeper.

Sadly that's not how it worked out.

From what I recall, the meetings between the C's and Mavs in the regular season didn't really bear out this notion that the Celtics were a terrible matchup for the Mavs.


Actually, Rondo tends to struggle against bigger guards who can back him down (Kidd), Shawn Marion would have given Pierce, our number 1 offensive option, a difficult time at both ends (flashes of Artest in 2010), Terry clearly could have matched Ray Allen shot for shot -- not to mention that DeShawn could have played him very tough (again, Artest).  Chandler would have taken advantage of our lack of size inside.  

Dirk, of course, was simply unstoppable, even for a player like KG.  Dirk wouldn't have had to work hard to defend KG on the other end, either (at this point KG is easier to defend than Bosh).


If anything, I think the Mavs match up quite well with the Celtics, unless, perhaps, Shaq is healthy and productive.

  Jason Kidd attempted a total of 50 shots at the rim this season, and that includes any fast break layups he may have been involved with. He's almost exclusively a three point spot up shooter. We're really worried that he's going to beat Rondo by backing him down? And which bigger guards gave Rondo so much trouble in the post last year? According to those synergy numbers Roy found, Rondo's among the best in the league in post up and isolation situations.

  Edit: Also, PP has averaged 26.3 a game vs Marion's teams throughout his career. So, not like Artest in 2010.

To Posimpos,

The whole post is assuming that both teams are healthy with their beginning of the season rosters. I don't think either Shaq or JO played in those dallas games. I know Erden played a lot in the first one. Kidd has really struggled with Rondo in recent years. Butler would have ate up Marion's minutes. As for lack of size. I don't see it with Shaq, JO, and Perk. Delonte could guard Beabouis and Barea. Nate would have been in there as an x factor, but our size in front with the three Centers and KG & Big Baby would have been too much. J Terry is good but he isn't Ray Allen. Not shot for shot.

To BballTim,

The roster pre-trade was 3-0 against the Heat. They had no answer for Rondo nor our size and physicality in the paint.We would have beat them in 6 with a completely healthy beginning if the season roster.

[Celtics4ever]

MIA did get better though as the  year went on trade or no trade, the series against us was their finals.  They almost seemed to lessen in intensity after us and didn't have it in the finals.  I think they would have beat us without the trade or with it, because they were focused against us and we have no lock down defender at the three when PP is on the bench.   Also, when PP has to play D all the time his offense suffers and we need him.   

[slamtheking]

The roster pre-trade was 3-0 against the Heat. They had no answer for Rondo nor our size and physicality in the paint.We would have beat them in 6 with a completely healthy beginning if the season roster.

I completely agree with this.  The problem was that we were screwed once Quisy went down and the 4-headed center position was a walking-wounded parade.

I also believe that those blaming the series loss on Rondo's injury are fooling themselves.  We lost the first 2 games with a as-healthy-as-he-could-be Rondo.  That elbow injury affected him a bit but it wasn't the difference maker in that series.  We were just plain outplayed in that series.  An unfortunate truth but the still the truth.

[cman88]

The roster pre-trade was 3-0 against the Heat. They had no answer for Rondo nor our size and physicality in the paint.We would have beat them in 6 with a completely healthy beginning if the season roster.

I completely agree with this.  The problem was that we were screwed once Quisy went down and the 4-headed center position was a walking-wounded parade.

I also believe that those blaming the series loss on Rondo's injury are fooling themselves.  We lost the first 2 games with a as-healthy-as-he-could-be Rondo.  That elbow injury affected him a bit but it wasn't the difference maker in that series.  We were just plain outplayed in that series.  An unfortunate truth but the still the truth.

In game 4 though, we went to overtime inspite of practically no rondo...our problem in that game(and those following) was Execution and offense.

Rondo is responsible for 47% of our offensive plays when on the floor according to stats..thats a big loss..and maybe we wouldve executed the final play better....without rondo it became our big 3 vs. theirs and ours...and our big 3 cant carry the team on their own...Rondo was our X-factor against the heat