Define "building around". Why do they keep saying we can't build around Rondo?

[BballTim]

I agree.. in fact Rondo even allows opposition teams to go 5 on 4 when defending the Celtics and just stop him from driving to the hoop. I am yet to hear championship teams' #1 guys that got left open and were dared to take jumpers.

  Are people really under the impression that teams lived in fear of Magic Johnson's long range jump shots? Or is it the case that he doesn't meet that magical criteria of a #1 guy?

Are you asking about the 6'8, first ballot hall of famer, greatest point guard of all time, Magic Johnson?

  No, I'm talking about his cousin.

[StartOrien]

I agree.. in fact Rondo even allows opposition teams to go 5 on 4 when defending the Celtics and just stop him from driving to the hoop. I am yet to hear championship teams' #1 guys that got left open and were dared to take jumpers.

  Are people really under the impression that teams lived in fear of Magic Johnson's long range jump shots? Or is it the case that he doesn't meet that magical criteria of a #1 guy?

Are you asking about the 6'8, first ballot hall of famer, greatest point guard of all time, Magic Johnson?

  No, I'm talking about his cousin.

Oh, then I do see how that's applicable.

No, Illusions Johnson didn't have a great shot from the perimeter, but he made up for it with effort, defense and smarts. I'd say he could be on a championship team, but not the number one option.

[ms.ball]

You build around a player that can be a #1 player on a championship squad.  Rondo is not that guy.

  This begs the question, what do you do when you don't have one of the 8-10 or so such players that have entered the league in the last 30 years or so? Continually tank?

There are more then 8-10 players in the last 30 years that fit that bill.  Just because guys have come up short doesn't mean they weren't #1 players capable of winning titles.  I would argue there are 14 active players that fit that mold (though many are no longer in their prime).  In no particular order, they are James, Wade, Howard, Dirk, Bryant, Paul, Durant, Duncan, Rose, Kidd, Nash, Pierce, Garnett, Gasol.  This does not count Anthony, Amare, Bosh, Williams, etc. who could potentially be that guy if the supporting cast was sufficient (none of had a supporting cast to test really them), nor guys like Blake Griffin and Westbrook who seemingly have the skill set though haven't had the chance to show what they can do in that role.  I've also excluded guys like Ray Allen and Vince Carter, though they have had a great deal of success both as an individual and as a team.  

  If your list is that big it should also include Rondo.

Potentially, I'm just not sure Rondo is up to the task. His role on the Celtics means that we don't quite know yet in my view.

  Do we somehow know that all the other people on his list are up to the task?

Sure because most of them have led their teams to the finals as the #1 option on their team.  If you can do that, then your team can win a title with you as the #1 option.  And the few that haven't gone to the finals have gone to conference finals as the #1 option and have multiple playoff series victories as the teams #1 option.

  What exactly is your definition of a #1 option? It's hard to come up with one that the people in your list all fit in.

  Edit: How many of them that led their teams to finals or conference finals did so by the time they were younger than Rondo is?

A #1 option is a player that can put his team on his back and carry it to victory.  A guy who is the team leader and its best player.  A guy that forces double teams and other teams need to game plan for. 

Rondo is an excellent player, but he isn't that guy and never will be.  He has too many offensive deficiencies to be that guy.

I'm not real sure I understand this,  you say a #1 option is a guy who can put a team on his back and win a game? Yet Rondo has put this team on his shoulders and won a playoff series. A couple of them I might add. You say he not a guy teams game plan for, yet he's the only guard Kobe and Lebron(two of the leagues best player) both plan to guard during their playoff series. Even without much scoring he's still able to control the pace of the game. He has also made our second unit look like all-stars at time. I'm 100% positive Rondo could be a #1 option. Kenny Smith said it best, when they are sagging off of him it only gives him more room to see the floor and make the proper play!

[paulcowens]

To me "building around" one player means that you've got a player that's good enough, and has enough impact to pretty much guarantee you a winning season.

I think generally, with limited exceptions, you don't really want to build a Championship team around a Point Guard. Especially one who has some pretty glaring flaws, and sometimes battles with inconsistency.

I  think your idea of 'building around' is off.  Having a one-man-team kind of guy is great, but having a guy who makes everyone around him better is better.

Also, by your criteria, neither Paul Pierce nor Kevin Garnett are build around guys, right?

We are very lucky to have a foundation stone like Rondo. 

[Eeyore III]

If Rondo is on the court, then all of the other 4 guys have got to be able to shoot.  That (being able to shoot) is an in-demand skill.  It's hard to assemble the right other guys to fit around Rondo.

I'd prefer to have my "can't shoot" guy be a center, and maybe a backup perimeter defender.

Your PG has got to be able to shoot.  He has got to be able to hit a foul shot.  Otherwise, your whole team is going to be warped.

I would not choose to build around Rondo because the most realistically-available other pieces of a next-generation team need a PG who can shoot and score when needed.

[Roy H.]

You build around a player that can be a #1 player on a championship squad.  Rondo is not that guy.

I tend to agree with this.

Rondo can be a heckuva #2 but I don't think he's the type to be "the guy" on a championship team.

I agree with both of you.  Rondo has moments of brilliance, but I don't see him as the guy who can consistently be a go-to guy, especially at the end of games.  He has the capability of putting up big numbers, certainly, but I think he needs to be beside a #1 option.

[bfrombleacher]

What about Dwight Howard then? I'm pretty sure he is a guy you can "build around" with since Orlando would be garbage without him. In the 4th quarter, he'll be just as non-existent as ESPN's Chosen one.

[missyP]

I agree.. in fact Rondo even allows opposition teams to go 5 on 4 when defending the Celtics and just stop him from driving to the hoop. I am yet to hear championship teams' #1 guys that got left open and were dared to take jumpers.

  Are people really under the impression that teams lived in fear of Magic Johnson's long range jump shots? Or is it the case that he doesn't meet that magical criteria of a #1 guy?

Free throws and 18 feet jumpers are not really 'long range'. They keep the defense honest and space out the middle for your bigs. Hey, I love Rondo and the future we will have with him post big three, but i am also realistic of his offensive flaws to put him in the same line with Rose, Durant, Chris Paul, D Williams, hence my rationale for wanting a typical #1 guy before him.

[PosImpos]

Because if building a team around Jason Kidd or Gary Payton didn't yield a championship, it definitely won't happen with a team whose best player is Rondo.




You mention having "a couple great scorers," but a truly 'great scorer' is likely to be better than Rondo, and thus the centerpiece of the team.

As others have said, Rondo is very good as a #2 or #3.  Not a player you build around.

[PosImpos]

I agree.. in fact Rondo even allows opposition teams to go 5 on 4 when defending the Celtics and just stop him from driving to the hoop. I am yet to hear championship teams' #1 guys that got left open and were dared to take jumpers.

  Are people really under the impression that teams lived in fear of Magic Johnson's long range jump shots? Or is it the case that he doesn't meet that magical criteria of a #1 guy?

dude, he was Magic Johnson.

and he was 6'9''.

[indeedproceed]

Also if magic Johnson played now he'd be a powerforward (at the athleticism he showed in the NBA). Man I wish Miami would just stop the bibby experiment and the chalmers debacle and just play bron at point full time. Or, I would wish that if bron was likable

[Moranis]

Also if magic Johnson played now he'd be a powerforward (at the athleticism he showed in the NBA). Man I wish Miami would just stop the bibby experiment and the chalmers debacle and just play bron at point full time. Or, I would wish that if bron was likable

If Magic played now he would be Lebron. 

[PosImpos]

Also if magic Johnson played now he'd be a powerforward (at the athleticism he showed in the NBA). Man I wish Miami would just stop the bibby experiment and the chalmers debacle and just play bron at point full time. Or, I would wish that if bron was likable

If Magic played now he would be Lebron. 

give Magic some more credit.

[ms.ball]

I agree.. in fact Rondo even allows opposition teams to go 5 on 4 when defending the Celtics and just stop him from driving to the hoop. I am yet to hear championship teams' #1 guys that got left open and were dared to take jumpers.

  Are people really under the impression that teams lived in fear of Magic Johnson's long range jump shots? Or is it the case that he doesn't meet that magical criteria of a #1 guy?

Free throws and 18 feet jumpers are not really 'long range'. They keep the defense honest and space out the middle for your bigs. Hey, I love Rondo and the future we will have with him post big three, but i am also realistic of his offensive flaws to put him in the same line with Rose, Durant, Chris Paul, D Williams, hence my rationale for wanting a typical #1 guy before him.

And this is the problem, people look at the those players you mention as great scores who can space the floor, keep the defense honest, blah, blah, blah! A guy like Rose would not work for this team. He took an average of 20 shot attemps a game last year just to average 25ppg. Now imagine if Rondo did that every game? Where does the big three shots come in? What people need to realize is there is more then one aspect of the game (scoring) is NOT THE ONLY ONE.  Rondo has proven he can handle the scoring load (WHEN NEEDED) 2009-2010 playoffs. Right now we don't need him to be a Rose, CP3, type scorer, but I'm sure he's capable of it once the big are gone. It's not hard to jack up 20 shots attempt for 20 pts!

[wdleehi]

What about Dwight Howard then? I'm pretty sure he is a guy you can "build around" with since Orlando would be garbage without him. In the 4th quarter, he'll be just as non-existent as ESPN's Chosen one.

Why would Howard be non-existent?