Opinions vary. I'm not sold that CP3 would be a top 5 pg if he shot like Rondo from the line and the field but I'd also say that, if you ignore shooting, he has the 2nd best all-around game of all the pgs.
if CP3 shot like Rondo from the line and from the field, he wouldn't be in this conversation. Why trade Rondo to get Rondo-with-a-different-face? Besides, if we want to ignore the shooting, for me Rondo plays better D and rebounds better, but at an inconsequential difference. For me, they are equally clutch, equally unselfish and are equally good in playmaking. It's really the shooting that is the biggest difference and we can't just "ignore it". take away Dirk's height and shooting, and i'd wager BBD is a better player.
there's more to an offense than "Rondo being brilliant". it's also about the coach's schemes and also having the proper personnel knowing what to do and having the ability to carry it out. i would wager that Pierce, Allen, and KG are among the most intelligent players in the league (and the most talented as well), up there with the Kobe's, Gasol's, Lebron's, etc. etc. Guys who just have a great knack of playing the game. Add Shaq into that list as well (though his abilities have diminished).
It's true that there's more to the offense than Rondo, it's also true that the offense is significantly worse when Rondo's not in the game. Paul and Ray and KG and Shaq (among others) all had the most or nearly most efficient scoring seasons of their careers last year. Rondo's a big part of that. He's better at spotting open players and hitting them with the right pass at the right time than anyone else in the league.
yes, this is true because Rondo is very good. Rondo > Delonte/Nate/Marbury/Cassell/House, clearly. but saying things like "like anyone else in the league" goes back to my point of not watching CP3 (or any other PG) except when you see them on sportscenter. Rondo is very good though. If Rondo were trash or average, then the notion of trading him for CP3 is just absurd. It's like trading Big Baby for Dirk.
however, when Rondo's vastly superior teammates are brought up, "extreme Rondo backers" are quick to bring up his individual stellar playoff performances or how well Rondo has carried the team, or even how the Hornets' personnel is pretty close to the C's (yes, i've been told this by someone here on CB, i just forget who, but i bet the moment someone makes a thread saying "let's trade Ariza and Bellinelli for Pierce and Allen", they would get laughed off the board by likely the same people.) for me, this is unfair. they criticize CP3 for his individual efforts, but praise Rondo for it. They disregard CP3's stats and praise Rondo's lack of stats purely based on the good ol' eye test.
You're doing a fairly poor job of condensing other people's arguments. You're also missing the one about how Rondo's superior teammates limit his overall production. Put him on a team like NO and he'll be a bigger part of the offense and control the ball more. Clearly we've seen that he's fully capable of scoring more than he does, but his lack of scoring is the biggest knock against him.
actually, i'm not. i just brought up that part because it's what was relevant. i did say in a previous post however that CP3's production is also taken against him and people say that he's all about stats or that stats aren't the whole picture. And in a similar vein, CP3's losses (notably playoff ones) are taken against him as well. Why can Rondo enjoy being lauded as a winner and play the victim in the stats game while CP3 can't be lauded as a stat monster but play the victim when his team loses? if anything, at least CP3 plays the right way and makes the right plays. He isn't Corey Maggette.
the biggest knock against Rondo isn't the scoring. it's the shooting and spacing. I think that's a big reason why our offense has to work so hard. And this is why i think CP3 is the superior option. We lose a little of Rondo's extra D and offensive rebounding and gain a lot of spacing and shooting. Plus, CP3 has the "name" to lure a bigtime FA like Dwight (imo).
They talk about Rondo's amazing growth and progress, as a player and as a person, when it's highly likely that they haven't watched and followed CP3 and the Hornets as closely as they watched Rondo and the C's. maybe at most they 4-8 Hornets games a year for CP3 plus whatever garbage ESPN spits out about MVP talks or whatever vs. watching every Celtics game in the playoffs and season plus Rondo's progress in the offseason and practices from almost every credible Celtics source out there.
You're pretty much right about this. I watch some non-Celts games but I don't watch nearly as many games of CP3 or Rose or Williams or Westbrook or anyone else as I do of Rondo. I watch most of the Celts games and at least 3-4 times a week I'll see Rondo make a play that I won't see from any other guard all year, and I base my opinions on that. But I also think that a lot of people who see Rondo play all the time just assume that other players can do what he does. I don't think that's the case.
this is where we have to disagree. i think at some point, gifted passers are just all at that upper echelon level. i see this in Rondo, D-Will, CP3, Nash, Kidd and Lebron *vomit*. they just have a terrific feel for the game, not in terms of scoring, but just knowing where their teammates are and having the ability and daringness to make that pass. Pierce, as intelligent as he is, can't make the passes Rondo makes. Neither can Westbrook nor D-Rose, as great as they are.
Topic: I hate to admit it but getting Howard means trading Rondo for Chris Paul (Read 85068 times)