I hate to admit it but getting Howard means trading Rondo for Chris Paul

[wdleehi]

Getting Josh Smith could also help us get Dwight. It would also solve quite a few of our problems.

- Josh Smith is friends with Dwight.
- We'd get rid of Jeff Green, who is quite the enigma.
- http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2011/02/breaking-down-josh-smith-as-small.html He could be our future starting SF with Pierce at SG (Pierce has to start).
- We keep Rondo, putting an end to this very conundrum. Yes, I like Rondo a lot.
- We're not guaranteed to get Howard if we get Chris Paul. Dwight Howard is one of the few most coveted FAs of the decade. If we can't get Dwight, we'd still have Rondo and Smith to build around. Josh Smith has expressed interest in joining the Celtics, Dwight Howard expressed nothing.

If you can get Paul for Rondo, you do it.  No matter what the other trades are. 


How do you get Smith?  Trading Ray? 

And Smith is a PF.  He doesn't shoot well enough to be a SF, especially next to Rondo. 

And Pierce is made into a three point shooter only because he is the only one left to stretch the floor for Rondo.



Plus, why would Atlanta make such a trade unless they were getting Rondo or KG?  Ray and Green is useless to them with Johnson and Williams being there and close to even. 

[nickagneta]

An NBA players prime is considered, by a very large contingent of GMs, owners, pundits, fans, and players as being between the ages of 28 years of age to 31 or 32. So yes the Boston Big Three were still in their prime. It could be argued that the reason the Miami big three didn't win the championship is because they hadn't hit their prime yet.

Don't believe me? Take a look at where the best of the best had their best years, their MVP years and won their most championships. It was later in their careers, when they were older than 28 years old. That is a players prime because they have learned the game, learned their limitations, learned how best to play with others and learned best how to win.

Regarding the play making PG and defensive center, that's Monday morning argumentation. At the time Rondo was a second year player that few beyond Danny Ainge thought could do the job and Perk was a major project with major limitations and serious doubts about his ability to not foul out after 5 minutes of play. They were ENORMOUS question marks.

By the way, that coach that demanded respect, lost 18 straight games the year before, was almost fired, and was wildly called for being fired from everyone from the press and players on the team to people all over this blog that was calling for his head all the way into Game 4 of the 4th quarter and then suddenly those calls disappeared thereafter.

I love Rondo and Doc and believe me, many can attest to the fact that there were no bigger supporters of those guys before the championship went down. But they were both wildly considered major setbacks to a championship for that year during that year and not major assets.

So, no, Miami isn't a Ferrari and the Celtics weren't a classic car.

Next year Miami might be the Ferrari and the Celtics a classic car but the 2007-08 Celtics with the Big Three were three players that were a miraculously well oiled machine for their first together that got lucky with some young players and vets coming through and no major injuries. Miami was a machine that needed more oil and time to reach its potential and didn't have the luck of no injuries, young players coming through and every vet signing being a good one.

Boston in 2007-08 was a collection of stars where all the stars aligned and they melded into a juggernaut in one year. That is the exception to the rule not the rule itself. Miami in 2010-11, is a collection of stars which is more the rule than the exception. It will take mo re time and then they will reach their potential and win. You'll see.

   Ok I looked up Jordan, Bryant, Bird and Johnson.  Their best years are between 23 and 29 and there is a sharp decline after 30.  Paul Pierce's best years were from when he was 23 to 28.  Ray Allen and KG's best years were between 25-30.  It seems that the best years for basketball players tend to be between 23 and 29.  Miami's big 3's numbers were only slightly lower than they were from the year before when Lebron was a 2 time MVP and Wade and Bosh were all-stars.  They are all still in the prime of their careers.  The Celtics Big 3's production took a significant drop in 2008.  
   Also I never claimed that Rondo in 2008 was a great point guard, I stated that he was a play-making point guard as opposed to a scoring point guard like Bibby, Chalmers, Billups and Douglas.  And a young Perkins, while not a finished product, did the type of dirty work that allowed the Big 3 to thrive.  Yeah I remember when we had one of the worst records in 2007, but Paul Pierce, KG and Ray Allen respected Doc Rivers despite that.  Rondo and Perkins developed great under Rivers also.  Can you say the same for Spoelstra when Lebron is complaining about his minutes and bumping shoulders with his coach, Bosh is complaining about not getting the ball in the post, when Stoudemire and Wade both had to call player meetings before their teams started winning?
   So once again we are left with the fact that Miami has 2 superstars and 1 star in the prime of their careers.  While in 2008, the big 3 were all past the prime of their careers and were in decline.  Furthermore the balance of shooting, post play, driving, assisting, and defense all made the Celtics starting 5 special in 2008.  This kind of chemistry is nowhere to be found in Miami or New York where the stars are often redundant.    

In 2008 the Celtics Big Three were not past their prime. I know this is a futile argument because all you are doing is looking at points scored per game thinking that is a measure of a player.

The Big Three compromised their total game for the good of the team. What was good for the team was offensive efficiency and defense and in those areas they excelled like never before.

Jordan won all his championships after the age of 27 because he hit his prime because he started thinking the game better and relying more on his team mates. His numbers all went down but he was mentally and physically in his prime.

Magic had his best years statistically and in his total game between the ages of 27 and 31 and would have gone on to unreal stats and possibly threaten Jordan in the 90's had he not got the HIV virus.

Larry was easily in his prime until age 31.

Tim Duncan's best years, when he won two of his 4 rings came between the ages of 27 and 32.

Shaq's best years came between 27 and 32 when he won all his rings.

Kobe didn't become the defensive player and all around killer he is until after Shaq left, he scored 35 PPG and realized he couldn't do it all by himself and started playing team defense and passing and relying on others.

reaching your prime as a player means MENTALLY and physically and not just when you scored the most points but became the best all around player you could be.

That hasn't happened to Lebron and Bosh yet and it is why the Big Three in 2007-08 were still in their prime.

[chambers]

Really not interested in Smith.
Having him and Rondo is a great fast break tandem but our shooting would suffer. They are both terrible shooters.
Good for the highlight reel but not good for our win total.

Would only take him as a replacement for Green but can't see what Atlanta wants from us of equal 'paper' value.

[Yogi]

An NBA players prime is considered, by a very large contingent of GMs, owners, pundits, fans, and players as being between the ages of 28 years of age to 31 or 32. So yes the Boston Big Three were still in their prime. It could be argued that the reason the Miami big three didn't win the championship is because they hadn't hit their prime yet.

Don't believe me? Take a look at where the best of the best had their best years, their MVP years and won their most championships. It was later in their careers, when they were older than 28 years old. That is a players prime because they have learned the game, learned their limitations, learned how best to play with others and learned best how to win.

Regarding the play making PG and defensive center, that's Monday morning argumentation. At the time Rondo was a second year player that few beyond Danny Ainge thought could do the job and Perk was a major project with major limitations and serious doubts about his ability to not foul out after 5 minutes of play. They were ENORMOUS question marks.

By the way, that coach that demanded respect, lost 18 straight games the year before, was almost fired, and was wildly called for being fired from everyone from the press and players on the team to people all over this blog that was calling for his head all the way into Game 4 of the 4th quarter and then suddenly those calls disappeared thereafter.

I love Rondo and Doc and believe me, many can attest to the fact that there were no bigger supporters of those guys before the championship went down. But they were both wildly considered major setbacks to a championship for that year during that year and not major assets.

So, no, Miami isn't a Ferrari and the Celtics weren't a classic car.

Next year Miami might be the Ferrari and the Celtics a classic car but the 2007-08 Celtics with the Big Three were three players that were a miraculously well oiled machine for their first together that got lucky with some young players and vets coming through and no major injuries. Miami was a machine that needed more oil and time to reach its potential and didn't have the luck of no injuries, young players coming through and every vet signing being a good one.

Boston in 2007-08 was a collection of stars where all the stars aligned and they melded into a juggernaut in one year. That is the exception to the rule not the rule itself. Miami in 2010-11, is a collection of stars which is more the rule than the exception. It will take mo re time and then they will reach their potential and win. You'll see.

   Ok I looked up Jordan, Bryant, Bird and Johnson.  Their best years are between 23 and 29 and there is a sharp decline after 30.  Paul Pierce's best years were from when he was 23 to 28.  Ray Allen and KG's best years were between 25-30.  It seems that the best years for basketball players tend to be between 23 and 29.  Miami's big 3's numbers were only slightly lower than they were from the year before when Lebron was a 2 time MVP and Wade and Bosh were all-stars.  They are all still in the prime of their careers.  The Celtics Big 3's production took a significant drop in 2008.  
   Also I never claimed that Rondo in 2008 was a great point guard, I stated that he was a play-making point guard as opposed to a scoring point guard like Bibby, Chalmers, Billups and Douglas.  And a young Perkins, while not a finished product, did the type of dirty work that allowed the Big 3 to thrive.  Yeah I remember when we had one of the worst records in 2007, but Paul Pierce, KG and Ray Allen respected Doc Rivers despite that.  Rondo and Perkins developed great under Rivers also.  Can you say the same for Spoelstra when Lebron is complaining about his minutes and bumping shoulders with his coach, Bosh is complaining about not getting the ball in the post, when Stoudemire and Wade both had to call player meetings before their teams started winning?
   So once again we are left with the fact that Miami has 2 superstars and 1 star in the prime of their careers.  While in 2008, the big 3 were all past the prime of their careers and were in decline.  Furthermore the balance of shooting, post play, driving, assisting, and defense all made the Celtics starting 5 special in 2008.  This kind of chemistry is nowhere to be found in Miami or New York where the stars are often redundant.    

In 2008 the Celtics Big Three were not past their prime. I know this is a futile argument because all you are doing is looking at points scored per game thinking that is a measure of a player.

The Big Three compromised their total game for the good of the team. What was good for the team was offensive efficiency and defense and in those areas they excelled like never before.

Jordan won all his championships after the age of 27 because he hit his prime because he started thinking the game better and relying more on his team mates. His numbers all went down but he was mentally and physically in his prime.

Magic had his best years statistically and in his total game between the ages of 27 and 31 and would have gone on to unreal stats and possibly threaten Jordan in the 90's had he not got the HIV virus.

Larry was easily in his prime until age 31.

Tim Duncan's best years, when he won two of his 4 rings came between the ages of 27 and 32.

Shaq's best years came between 27 and 32 when he won all his rings.

Kobe didn't become the defensive player and all around killer he is until after Shaq left, he scored 35 PPG and realized he couldn't do it all by himself and started playing team defense and passing and relying on others.

reaching your prime as a player means MENTALLY and physically and not just when you scored the most points but became the best all around player you could be.

That hasn't happened to Lebron and Bosh yet and it is why the Big Three in 2007-08 were still in their prime.

   Winning championships and the prime of a player are two different standards.  You can win a championship as a veteran with young players on a team or as a rookie with veterans on your team.  Championships are a measure of the team, not any individual player.  If you look at production on the court, which is points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks etc.  most players peak from a period of 23-29 years old.  It's true that Larry Bird had a great year when he was 31, but Ray Allen was 33, and KG was 32 in 2008.  All the players you've mentioned dropped their production significantly when they were 32 compared to the stretch of years before.  Ray Allen was also coming of knee surgery.  Shaq began his decline in production when he was 31.  The big fundamental maybe the most consistent big guy to play the game recently but his production also began to decline slowly when he was 31.  Even in 2007, KG, Ray and Paul couldn't carry their teams (even to the playoffs) like Lebron did in Cleveland, Wade did in Miami.  Even Bosh almost got Toronto into the playoffs by himself. 
   Honestly, are you really comparing the Boston trading for Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett to 2 super-stars and a young all-star deciding to join forces?  If you had to choose between Ray Allen in 2008 and Dwayne Wade in 2011 who would you say was closer to their prime?  What about Lebron/Carmelo in 2011 and Paul Pierce in 2008?  Stoudemire/Bosh in 2011 and KG in 2008?

[CoachBo]

Getting Josh Smith could also help us get Dwight. It would also solve quite a few of our problems.

- Josh Smith is friends with Dwight.
- We'd get rid of Jeff Green, who is quite the enigma.
- http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2011/02/breaking-down-josh-smith-as-small.html He could be our future starting SF with Pierce at SG (Pierce has to start).
- We keep Rondo, putting an end to this very conundrum. Yes, I like Rondo a lot.
- We're not guaranteed to get Howard if we get Chris Paul. Dwight Howard is one of the few most coveted FAs of the decade. If we can't get Dwight, we'd still have Rondo and Smith to build around. Josh Smith has expressed interest in joining the Celtics, Dwight Howard expressed nothing.

If you can get Paul for Rondo, you do it.  No matter what the other trades are.  


How do you get Smith?  Trading Ray?  

And Smith is a PF.  He doesn't shoot well enough to be a SF, especially next to Rondo.  

And Pierce is made into a three point shooter only because he is the only one left to stretch the floor for Rondo.



Plus, why would Atlanta make such a trade unless they were getting Rondo or KG?  Ray and Green is useless to them with Johnson and Williams being there and close to even.  

Couldn't agree more. In my book, Job 1 for Ainge after the lockout ends is getting on the phone and seeing what it's going to take to put Chris Paul in Green.

If it's Rondo, fine. And pieces, fine.

Get it done, Danny.

[AlexDaMenace]

Couldn't agree more. In my book, Job 1 for Ainge after the lockout ends is getting on the phone and seeing what it's going to take to put Chris Paul in Green.

If it's Rondo, fine. And pieces, fine.

Get it done, Danny.

no, thats the last thing to do. forget paul.
danny needs to get at least 1 center!
this guy gotta be athletic and not too old.
rondo + athletic center = 

RR played the best, when shaq was there. he had some great plays with shaq. too bad, shaq was hurt nearly the whole season.
just imagine how he would play with a guy like nene, deandre jordan or maybe chandler. oh, and forget howard too, he won't go away from orlando.
i guess chandler will stay in big D too, because he's a kind of a hero there now, but nene! he said he ain't about money so go get him!
nene in the team = championship team!

nene, KG, truth, rayray, rondo. who the Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. gon stop that.

[CoachBo]

Couldn't agree more. In my book, Job 1 for Ainge after the lockout ends is getting on the phone and seeing what it's going to take to put Chris Paul in Green.

If it's Rondo, fine. And pieces, fine.

Get it done, Danny.

no, thats the last thing to do. forget paul.
danny needs to get at least 1 center!
this guy gotta be athletic and not too old.
rondo + athletic center = 

RR played the best, when shaq was there. he had some great plays with shaq. too bad, shaq was hurt nearly the whole season.
just imagine how he would play with a guy like nene, deandre jordan or maybe chandler. oh, and forget howard too, he won't go away from orlando.
i guess chandler will stay in big D too, because he's a kind of a hero there now, but nene! he said he ain't about money so go get him!
nene in the team = championship team!

nene, KG, truth, rayray, rondo. who the **** gon stop that.

Nope. Time for Rondo to go.

In 2008, he was the perfect point for three big-time scorers in the Big Three.

Today, he's exactly the wrong guy at the point as those three decline as scorers. Can't have a non-jumpshooter at the point anymore as Allen, Garnett and Pierce age, and the proof came in the playoffs: We had no offense at the ends of games. None.

Chris Paul is exactly what this group needs - an offensive threat from the perimeter who can distribute.

I hope to God the deal is on the table - if not, the Celtics will continue to deteriorate offensively.

[bfrombleacher]

Getting Josh Smith could also help us get Dwight. It would also solve quite a few of our problems.

- Josh Smith is friends with Dwight.
- We'd get rid of Jeff Green, who is quite the enigma.
- http://www.hoopinionblog.com/2011/02/breaking-down-josh-smith-as-small.html He could be our future starting SF with Pierce at SG (Pierce has to start).
- We keep Rondo, putting an end to this very conundrum. Yes, I like Rondo a lot.
- We're not guaranteed to get Howard if we get Chris Paul. Dwight Howard is one of the few most coveted FAs of the decade. If we can't get Dwight, we'd still have Rondo and Smith to build around. Josh Smith has expressed interest in joining the Celtics, Dwight Howard expressed nothing.

If you can get Paul for Rondo, you do it.  No matter what the other trades are. 


How do you get Smith?  Trading Ray? 

And Smith is a PF.  He doesn't shoot well enough to be a SF, especially next to Rondo. 

And Pierce is made into a three point shooter only because he is the only one left to stretch the floor for Rondo.



Plus, why would Atlanta make such a trade unless they were getting Rondo or KG?  Ray and Green is useless to them with Johnson and Williams being there and close to even. 

They're looking to unload his contract and he wants out anyway.  I reckon they'd be quite interested in Jeff Green and cash since CBS reckons that ATL would take Ryan Anderson.http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/22/report-josh-smith-to-orlando-magic-trade-rumors-%E2%80%9Clegit%E2%80%9D/

Chris Paul is better than Rondo. Period. My main concern is Paul's knees. Paul's knees are probably going to blow before Rondo learns a jump shot (I'm fairly convinced he will). Rondo would probably have a longer shelf life and I'd take longevity and gradual improvement over the instant upgrade that may someday come back to screw us with the knees. That's my personal opinion.

As for stretching the floor, I've been saying all along that I think we have plenty of jump shooting. The problem with our offense is that we lack penetration. Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are not the only free agents in 2012. OJ Mayo anyone?

I was daunted by the idea of a short PF thanks to the Big Baby breakdown. Maybe it won't be so bad with Smith. The knock on him is he loves his jump shot too much but I'm sure Rondo can solve that. From what I hear, ATL is all isolation, which may mean it's hard for Smith to get a shot inside.

I'd be happy with Rondo, Mayo, Pierce, Smith and a FA center or Rondo, FA shooting guard, Pierce, Smith and Howard. I'm sure Jajuan Johnson can back him up.

[BballTim]

Couldn't agree more. In my book, Job 1 for Ainge after the lockout ends is getting on the phone and seeing what it's going to take to put Chris Paul in Green.

If it's Rondo, fine. And pieces, fine.

Get it done, Danny.

no, thats the last thing to do. forget paul.
danny needs to get at least 1 center!
this guy gotta be athletic and not too old.
rondo + athletic center = 

RR played the best, when shaq was there. he had some great plays with shaq. too bad, shaq was hurt nearly the whole season.
just imagine how he would play with a guy like nene, deandre jordan or maybe chandler. oh, and forget howard too, he won't go away from orlando.
i guess chandler will stay in big D too, because he's a kind of a hero there now, but nene! he said he ain't about money so go get him!
nene in the team = championship team!

nene, KG, truth, rayray, rondo. who the **** gon stop that.

Nope. Time for Rondo to go.

In 2008, he was the perfect point for three big-time scorers in the Big Three.

Today, he's exactly the wrong guy at the point as those three decline as scorers. Can't have a non-jumpshooter at the point anymore as Allen, Garnett and Pierce age, and the proof came in the playoffs: We had no offense at the ends of games. None.

Chris Paul is exactly what this group needs - an offensive threat from the perimeter who can distribute.

  Chris Paul is a better scorer but I don't think I'd say that another perimeter player is *exactly* what the Revs need. People who think we'll avoid offensive droughts when our top 4 scoring options are all primarily jump shooters are most likely mistaken.

[ms.ball]

What happened to the ole saying offense win games, defense wins championships?  So many people are quick to write off Rondo for Paul becuz he has a better jump shot. Some one  please explain to me how he's a better player, scoring wise yes, passing is equal, play making ability is equal, defense Rondo, heart Rondo!
And when did Paul become a top 5 player?
Lebron, Melo, Wade, Durant, Howard, Kobe, Dirk, are all better players then Paul so we can stop with the he's a top five player.

So quick to trade a guy who lays it all out of the line for this squad, He played with a dislocated shoulder for ****, is Paul willing to do that for this team? We don't need a player just cuz he can score more we need a player who gonna display Celtic Pride!!!!

[xmuscularghandix]

If getting Chris Paul guarantees Dwight Howard, and Danny Ainge CAN trade Rondo for Paul... that deal has to be a no brainer.

[BballTim]

If getting Chris Paul guarantees Dwight Howard, and Danny Ainge CAN trade Rondo for Paul... that deal has to be a no brainer.

  Sure, but obviously getting CP3 doesn't guarantee getting Howard.

[rondohondo]

What happened to the ole saying offense win games, defense wins championships?  So many people are quick to write off Rondo for Paul becuz he has a better jump shot. Some one  please explain to me how he's a better player, scoring wise yes, passing is equal, play making ability is equal, defense Rondo, heart Rondo!
And when did Paul become a top 5 player?
Lebron, Melo, Wade, Durant, Howard, Kobe, Dirk, are all better players then Paul so we can stop with the he's a top five player.

So quick to trade a guy who lays it all out of the line for this squad, He played with a dislocated shoulder for ****, is Paul willing to do that for this team? We don't need a player just cuz he can score more we need a player who gonna display Celtic Pride!!!!

Sry melo isnt better than paul,  he is a scorer and thats about it...

[ms.ball]

What happened to the ole saying offense win games, defense wins championships?  So many people are quick to write off Rondo for Paul becuz he has a better jump shot. Some one  please explain to me how he's a better player, scoring wise yes, passing is equal, play making ability is equal, defense Rondo, heart Rondo!
And when did Paul become a top 5 player?
Lebron, Melo, Wade, Durant, Howard, Kobe, Dirk, are all better players then Paul so we can stop with the he's a top five player.

So quick to trade a guy who lays it all out of the line for this squad, He played with a dislocated shoulder for ****, is Paul willing to do that for this team? We don't need a player just cuz he can score more we need a player who gonna display Celtic Pride!!!!

Sry melo isnt better than paul,  he is a scorer and thats about it...

Yes Melo is a scorer he's also a clutch player. While I would never want him to play on my team becuz he doesn't play any defense, he is considered a top player!

[AlexDaMenace]

If getting Chris Paul guarantees Dwight Howard, and Danny Ainge CAN trade Rondo for Paul... that deal has to be a no brainer.

getting chris paul doesnt guarantee Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. and people are concerned about his knees. the big question is: how many years will he be able to play on a high level? the guy was hurt a lot in the last years.

and I wouldnt like getting howard and paul, I don't like the new teambuilding strategy 2 or 3 superstars + garbage.