CB Draft Western Conference Finals: Kings (1) Vs Blazers (2)

[dark_lord]

for both teams....
i can assess players and read about your schemes/strategies. i am one of the only people i have seen that consistently factors coaching into each vote i make.  make a case for why your coach is better than the other.


for the kings...
how does lawrence frank manage lbj if he is "choking", appears to be giving up, and his "diva" moments.


thanks in advance

Well im not sure if anybody has been able to figure out what to do if Lebron appears to be choking, but i can tell you what I would do.  I would say you are the horse that we have ridden all season, we will live and die with you.  Draw up plays for Lebron and force him to be aggressive. 

Lebron's biggest downfall is when he becomes unsure of himself and starts becoming a passive player. 

I just read the book Red and Me over vacation and Bill talked about how Red always thought that when i guy started getting down on himself most of the time the guys just needed some shots and to feel like he is part of the game and get some confidence back on his side.  That is what we will do with Lebron. 

Either that or give him some prozac

thanks for the response....but what about the frank vs gentry matchup, as u see it?



also, id like to hear nick and IP's input on my aforementioned question if u guys have the time.

[indeedproceed]

The team went through a cake-walk to the Finals. Iggy's 6ers, Howard's Magic, then they lost to the Celtics.

[KCattheStripe]

The team went through a cake-walk to the Finals. Iggy's 6ers, Howard's Magic, then they lost to the Celtics.

That magic team was basically the same team that made the finals the following year.

[indeedproceed]

for both teams....
i can assess players and read about your schemes/strategies. i am one of the only people i have seen that consistently factors coaching into each vote i make.  make a case for why your coach is better than the other.


for the kings...
how does lawrence frank manage lbj if he is "choking", appears to be giving up, and his "diva" moments.


thanks in advance

Well im not sure if anybody has been able to figure out what to do if Lebron appears to be choking, but i can tell you what I would do.  I would say you are the horse that we have ridden all season, we will live and die with you.  Draw up plays for Lebron and force him to be aggressive.  

Lebron's biggest downfall is when he becomes unsure of himself and starts becoming a passive player.  

I just read the book Red and Me over vacation and Bill talked about how Red always thought that when i guy started getting down on himself most of the time the guys just needed some shots and to feel like he is part of the game and get some confidence back on his side.  That is what we will do with Lebron.  

Either that or give him some prozac

thanks for the response....but what about the frank vs gentry matchup, as u see it?



also, id like to hear nick and IP's input on my aforementioned question if u guys have the time.

I'll get to it tonight, although honestly I have no idea how to address it.

I picked Gentry because everyone has nice things to say about him, he melds very well with every type of player and is very well respected, and he seems to make the best of what he's got. I wouldn't say he is a great defensive or offensive coach, but I do think that he's a good coach with an even keel that can get more out of his players than most. Just look at what the Suns did this year with 59 year old Steve Nash and a bag of gym socks.

I don't think he's on the level of an X's and 0's coach that Lawrence Frank is, but at the same time, I don't think LeBron would ever listen to Lawrence Frank.

I think Gentry is a good choice to allow Stoudemire the latitude to be a leader while being firmer with those who will respond well to it. I've got a mix of young and old guys, and I need as much out of them as I can get.

Honestly I think Alvin Gentry would be a fine coach for the Kings also.

[dark_lord]

for both teams....
i can assess players and read about your schemes/strategies. i am one of the only people i have seen that consistently factors coaching into each vote i make.  make a case for why your coach is better than the other.


for the kings...
how does lawrence frank manage lbj if he is "choking", appears to be giving up, and his "diva" moments.


thanks in advance

Well im not sure if anybody has been able to figure out what to do if Lebron appears to be choking, but i can tell you what I would do.  I would say you are the horse that we have ridden all season, we will live and die with you.  Draw up plays for Lebron and force him to be aggressive.  

Lebron's biggest downfall is when he becomes unsure of himself and starts becoming a passive player.  

I just read the book Red and Me over vacation and Bill talked about how Red always thought that when i guy started getting down on himself most of the time the guys just needed some shots and to feel like he is part of the game and get some confidence back on his side.  That is what we will do with Lebron.  

Either that or give him some prozac

thanks for the response....but what about the frank vs gentry matchup, as u see it?



also, id like to hear nick and IP's input on my aforementioned question if u guys have the time.

I'll get to it tonight, although honestly I have no idea how to address it.

I picked Gentry because everyone has nice things to say about him, he melds very well with every type of player and is very well respected, and he seems to make the best of what he's got. I wouldn't say he is a great defensive or offensive coach, but I do think that he's a good coach with an even keel that can get more out of his players than most. Just look at what the Suns did this year with 59 year old Steve Nash and a bag of gym socks.

I don't think he's on the level of an X's and 0's coach that Lawrence Frank is, but at the same time, I don't think LeBron would ever listen to Lawrence Frank.

I think Gentry is a good choice to allow Stoudemire the latitude to be a leader while being firmer with those who will respond well to it. I've got a mix of young and old guys, and I need as much out of them as I can get.

Honestly I think Alvin Gentry would be a fine coach for the Kings also.

thats a good response. thx

[indeedproceed]

The team went through a cake-walk to the Finals. Iggy's 6ers, Howard's Magic, then they lost to the Celtics.

That magic team was basically the same team that made the finals the following year.

Hmmmm.....well. that Magic team beat LeBron, but only after barely scraping by a Garnet-less Celtics...

But that magic team was beat by Detroit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqK8ljyHjA

[Kane3387]

Well can we worry about Billups declining speed, poor shot selection, and degrading body?

Declining speed and athleticism - yes

Shot selection - no, Chauncey has a very good shot selection.

The number of pull up 27 footers he takes makes me disagree on this one.

Agreed.  When I think of good shot selection, Chauncey Billups certainly isn't a player that comes to mind.

The odd pull up three here and there doesn't discount how good his overall shot selection is.

Depends what his percentage is. HE is probably the best at those shots in the NBA. He makes a lot of them and clearly earned the green light from every coach he played for  on those. That includes Carlisle and Brwon while in Detroit before he became a star pg.

[Fafnir]

The team went through a cake-walk to the Finals. Iggy's 6ers, Howard's Magic, then they lost to the Celtics.

That magic team was basically the same team that made the finals the following year.

Their top 3 players were the same, but I think Dwight Howard stepped it up to another level in 08-09. Plus they ditched Bogans for Lee and also signed Pietrus.

Plus the biggest reason Detroit beat the Magic is that Rasheed absolutely owned Dwight Howard. We saw a more limited version of the same thing in 09-10 when as our backup C Rasheed bother Howard despite being a shell of what he was in Detroit.

[dark_lord]

just submitted my vote, since i will be out for a while tonight.  went with the kings.  lbj vs. wade final for me

[Kane3387]

The team went through a cake-walk to the Finals. Iggy's 6ers, Howard's Magic, then they lost to the Celtics.

That magic team was basically the same team that made the finals the following year.

Hmmmm.....well. that Magic team beat LeBron, but only after barely scraping by a Garnet-less Celtics...

But that magic team was beat by Detroit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqK8ljyHjA

I like that Detroit team more then yours IP. I think Billups was in his prime during those times. The Wallace brothers were playing great defense. Rip was an All-Star and Prince was very very solid. Lebron had an unstoppable series of plays in game 5 and Daniel Gibson couldn't miss.

Also as good as that Detroit team was, they almost lost the first two games to James.

James WILL destroy Delfino, man. And you really have no one to guard him when Delfino gets in foul trouble and he will...

[Kane3387]

I love the way IP brings it. Props to him, but this is a huge mistake in this series and it cost it for you in my opinion.

Quote from: Rondo2287 on Today at 01:46:38 pm
Quote from: IndeedProceed on Today at 01:45:16 pm
Quote from: Rondo2287 on Today at 01:32:08 pm
Im not claiming Chandler is going to be our go to scorer IP.  Im just claiming that in this series Chandler will limit Boguts ability to be your secondary scorer

A) He's not my secondary scorer.

B) In the last 2 years, Chandler has done that once out of 3 games. If Chandler can do that once out of 3 games here, I'm happy with Bogut scoring 20 points on 64% shooting in those other two games (which is you know...what happened).

Who is your secondary scorer?

Kyle Lowry or James Harden, depending on how well Matthews holds up.

Either guy is good enough with the ball in their hands to take advantage of their matchup. Harden with his skill, Lowry with his speed. Either one should do well in a pick and roll setting with Amar'e.  

As many shots as Amare needs and then having HArden or Lowry as the second option will seriously hurt Bogut on offense who will not just roll over tyson.

I remember reading about Perkins saying this below.

Kendrick Perkins did tell me he thinks [Andrew] Bogut is the best offensive center in the NBA.

Chris Mannix of Sports Illustrated, via Twitter

http://www.brewhoop.com/2010/4/29/1450170/kendrick-perkins-did-tell-me-he

I don't believe Harden or Lowry will be ready to be the second best offensive player on a team that eliminates any Lebron team, let alone the second option on a finals team next season.

I think Bogut as a third option on this team here is a mistake. Perk probably agrees with me. If he was a second option and more a focal point of the offense I think you might make this a 7 game series and then who knows.

Also I thought Pierce would dominate a series being manned up by Delfino, so I think LBJ will make that match-up a massacre. I like the King's depth, and I think next season LBJ does get his ring.

No way he goes ringless. He plays better as the sole guy which he is on this team. While not playing with as much talent as in Miami, I do think this KIngs team provides him with the best team he has ever been a part of since in the NBA. I think LBJ also makes all those guys way better then they were last year and Amare really doesn't do that.

In 2008 LBJ almost beat Boston by himself and in 2009 he got no help from Williams, West, Varejao, etc. Also Orlando was a bad match-up for his team that year. In 2010 I think Rondo took over but I think James heart had left that organization already. In 2011 the spotlight was too bright but before the Finals he was the best player in the playoffs.

I think HCA matters also.

I am going with the Kings because LBJ is too dominant here. I think if Lowry or Harden is your second guy then James slides over and shuts them down like he did Rose in the final minutes of the games in the Bulls series. Delfino won't challenge Billups or Matthews either.

Great job running this and props to the way you have played this game, especially yesterday.

TP

[indeedproceed]

Its a matter of preference, and its far from a matter of fact. I think Harden, Lowry, and Bogut are all ready to take their game to the next level. If that's true, by this time (the time this hypothetical series is going down) next year, this Portland Team would absolutely be a Finals caliber team.

If you don't think Lowry, Bogut, and Harden are ready to make a jump into the league's elite, then you probably don't like my team much, and I get that.

I don't agree with that, but I get it.

[indeedproceed]

Also. Little personal reponder to Kane;

The reason why Andrew Bogut is so good but so under appreciated on offense is because he like knows his limitations. Actually, in that regard, he and Tyson Chandler aren't very different. I'm back on the iPhone so I'm not gona bother with the stats, but generally, Bogut makes a lot more shots than he misses. That wasn't the case last year, because he was limited with his left handed hook. But healthy, he is extremely efficient. When he's doubled, he passes out of it. I would honestly expect him to lead all centers in 'hockey assists'. When he's got a good chance of making a basket, he takes it.

Asking him to shoot 14-15 shots a game though hasn't played out well. It's he difference between shooting 48% and 55-60%. he'll end up forcing things, and that hurts his value as an all-around player.

That's the difference between him and Chandler. Chandler plays within his limitations as well, but his limitations are far greater.

That's also the reason though that John salmons made such a difference. He allowed Bogut to do more of what he was good at, and less of what he wasn't. That's why harden is important. Harden is a threat from he 3pt line in, as well as a gifted passer. He can work the two man game with either Bogut or amare. That's why I want the ball in his hands fairly often in the half court.

[CB Draft Voting]

VOTING DEADLINE DRAWS NIGH!

[Kane3387]

Also. Little personal reponder to Kane;

The reason why Andrew Bogut is so good but so under appreciated on offense is because he like knows his limitations. Actually, in that regard, he and Tyson Chandler aren't very different. I'm back on the iPhone so I'm not gona bother with the stats, but generally, Bogut makes a lot more shots than he misses. That wasn't the case last year, because he was limited with his left handed hook. But healthy, he is extremely efficient. When he's doubled, he passes out of it. I would honestly expect him to lead all centers in 'hockey assists'. When he's got a good chance of making a basket, he takes it.

Asking him to shoot 14-15 shots a game though hasn't played out well. It's he difference between shooting 48% and 55-60%. he'll end up forcing things, and that hurts his value as an all-around player.

That's the difference between him and Chandler. Chandler plays within his limitations as well, but his limitations are far greater.

That's also the reason though that John salmons made such a difference. He allowed Bogut to do more of what he was good at, and less of what he wasn't. That's why harden is important. Harden is a threat from he 3pt line in, as well as a gifted passer. He can work the two man game with either Bogut or amare. That's why I want the ball in his hands fairly often in the half court.

Look IP I couldn't admit it because I knew we were going to meet up at some point, but I am a big fan of Bogut's offense. In 2010 I saw him destroy Perkins. His ambidextrous hooks were killers in the post.

Salmons did become the guy for Milwaukee when Bogut went down and he, for some reason, sparked a huge playoff run for Milwaukee. It was a shame Bogut got hurt because they beat Atlanta with him.

I interpreted you running the offense through Lowry or Harden, as a second option. If that is true I don't agree with that but it sounds like I might have misinterpreted your intentions here? I would definitely run the offense through Bogut as the second guy. Doesn't mean he has to shoot but his back to the basket game is one of the best in the league. While he is no D12 he is definitely in the mix for 2nd best overall because he is a true Center and great at both ends of the court. Only a healthy Bynum is a guy I would likely put over Bogut. Duncan, Amare, Pau, and Horford I do not view as true centers.

I am not saying Bogut as the second option makes me vote for you, but I was really contemplating it because you seemed to have the Kings on the ropes a little bit in this debate. However when I saw Harden or Lowry as your second option I just couldn't get on board with that against Lebron in the role he is playing with Sacramento. I think he is a much more lethal player when he gets to dominate the ball like in Cleveland compared to what he did in Miami. I also felt this is the best collection of players that fit, and not necessarily talent, that he would have ever been surrounded by in the NBA.