CB Draft Eastern Conference Finals: Sixers (1) Vs Knicks (4)

[mgent]

PG -  Adv Knicks

Hinrich actually tore it up against Deron the several times they've played.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=hinriki01&p2=willide01


SG -  huge Adv 76ers

Two bad defenders vs. the 2nd best player in the game


SF -  small Adv 76ers

About even until you take passing into the equation

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=iguodan01&p2=denglu01


PF -  Adv 76ers

New York's other weakness happens to be my second best scorer


C  -  even

Duncan will be 36 by next year's playoffs, and his game will continue to decline.  My frontcourt is too mobile, he'll probably hurt them more than he'll help.

I see Knicks having the advantage at three positions and a better overall fit.


I am seeing the 76ers and real Heat lite.  Without the Heat's best player. 

And with LeBron-lite, more size, defense and rebounding at the 5, better defense at the 1, a better fit at PF, an UNBELIEVABLY better bench, a more well-rounded/versatile offense, and a better overall defense.

Bosh is better then West.  


Bosh last season had to be a third option behind two of the biggest volume shooters in the NBA.  


West had the best PG in the NBA.  

I agree, Bosh is lousy as a 3rd option, he's destined to be the 1st option on a bad team.

He was primarily a faceup/jumpshooter on the Heat.  West brings a better back-to-the-basket game, and I think is slightly better in the pick and roll (running it with Wade instead of Paul will make him more effective if anything).  He doesn't have more talent than Bosh, but I think he's a better fit.

[wdleehi]

Very surprised, reading some of the comments. I get the impression that some are overthinking this and/or are looking for reasons to vote against the favorite. Either that or Taj Gibson, Jodie Meeks, and yes, the declining Tim Duncan are a lot better than I think they are.

To me, this is a mismatch in Philly's favor.

I don't think this thing is clear-cut by any means and I certainly don't think I'm overthinking it.  Its a genuinely tough matchup in my eyes.

Not surprised since you even thought the Bullets were better than the 6ers.

You personally, aren't over-thinking it, but some of these comments are ridiculous.  I mean the only argument I've had against my team for the past week is "a zone MIGHT slow down your offense for two minutes before your guys adjust, just like it would any team, and there's nothing two of the best slashing and passing wings in the game can do about it."

What good is it to have two slashers like this if there is only one ball and you have only one shooter?  


All we heard this season is how Wade and Lebron don't work great together.  They both have overwhelming talent that helped them overcome alot of the issues.  

AI doesn't have that overwhelming talent.  With Wade, he will be pushed into the outside shooter role.  He isn't good enough at that role.  

And if you force the ball into his hand, you just made Wade into an outside the three point line spectator.  


Either way, there is a serious flaw between you 2/3.  

I think Iggy is a fine fit next to Wade. They'd have no problems sorting out who should lead the offense when. Not similar to the LeBron/Wade pairing at all.

No doubt who should have the ball in their hands.


But it makes AI2 a lot less valuable offensively.

And his strengths do not make things easier for Wade.


Therefor, bad fit.

I still think you're focusing on the negatives.  The positives of the two of them together are way bigger.

No.


I am looking at those things that make the difference between a good playoff run and winning it all.


Either overwhelming talent (which is not there) or a great design around a single star (which is not there)

[Who]

Miami and Philadelphia should not be compared. Two completely different teams.

[Who]

I have Phily with a seven man rotation -- their starting five plus Barbosa and Kenyon -- with Bonner filling in situationally when the Sixers need better spacing.

Is that correct?

[mgent]

Lebron, Wade and Bosh got to the finals


And lost




Wade and West are not equal.  





I am sorry, but AI2 can not be put in Lebrons place as an argument for equal outcomes.  


If Lebron, Wade and Bosh are only good enough to make the finals, why should we expect replacing Bosh with a lesser PF and replacing the best player in the NBA with a very good role player is going to go as far?

Apparently you've missed all the times I described how I improved all the Heats' weaknesses.  No one ever said Wade/LeBron/Bosh isn't significantly better than Wade/Iguodala/West.  But I don't see how you've proven the Heat are way better than the 76ers.

All I've heard from anybody is the "LeBron intangible" argument.

[nickagneta]

Simply put....I think the Sixers are just a better team and New York has way overachieved getting to this point.

[Roy H.]

Lebron, Wade and Bosh got to the finals


And lost

I don't really buy the "Miami lost, so that says something about Philly" argument.

Lebron and Wade fit together quite well.  They were the 3rd best team in the NBA offensively, and 5th defensively.  They should have won a championship, and had the personnel to do so.  They fell short for one reason:  Lebron disappeared in the Finals.  

That's it.  It wasn't Dirk's stellar play, it wasn't the fantastic Mavericks scheme, it wasn't an internal flaw of the Heat.  Rather, the Heat's superstar, Lebron, choked.

Wade was fantastic in the Finals.  Put him next to another star who actually plays like a star, and the Heat win handily.

I am sorry, but AI2 can not be put in Lebrons place as an argument for equal outcomes.  

I think AI2 can be put in Lebron's place *if you're comparing the Finals*.  

Lebron's Finals statistics:  17.8 points, 6.8 assists, 7.1 rebounds, 4.0 turnovers, 47% FG%, 32% 3PT% in 44 minutes per game.

Is it that crazy to think that AI2 can put up an 18/7/7 line in 44 minutes?  If Philly's small forward position didn't produce those numbers, I'd be absolutely shocked.

[Kane3387]

PG -  Adv Knicks

Hinrich actually tore it up against Deron the several times they've played.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=hinriki01&p2=willide01


SG -  huge Adv 76ers

Two bad defenders vs. the 2nd best player in the game


SF -  small Adv 76ers

About even until you take passing into the equation

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=iguodan01&p2=denglu01


PF -  Adv 76ers

New York's other weakness happens to be my second best scorer


C  -  even

Duncan will be 36 by next year's playoffs, and his game will continue to decline.  My frontcourt is too mobile, he'll probably hurt them more than he'll help.

I see Knicks having the advantage at three positions and a better overall fit.


I am seeing the 76ers and real Heat lite.  Without the Heat's best player. 

And with LeBron-lite, more size, defense and rebounding at the 5, better defense at the 1, a better fit at PF, an UNBELIEVABLY better bench, a more well-rounded/versatile offense, and a better overall defense.

Bosh is better then West.  


Bosh last season had to be a third option behind two of the biggest volume shooters in the NBA.  


West had the best PG in the NBA.  

I agree, Bosh is lousy as a 3rd option, he's destined to be the 1st option on a bad team.

He was primarily a faceup/jumpshooter on the Heat.  West brings a better back-to-the-basket game, and I think is slightly better in the pick and roll (running it with Wade instead of Paul will make him more effective if anything).  He doesn't have more talent than Bosh, but I think he's a better fit.

Wade is not a better pick and roll player then CP3. I need numbers to believe that. I think West suffers going from an offense run by CP3 to an offense run by Wade.

[mgent]

I have Phily with a seven man rotation -- their starting five plus Barbosa and Kenyon -- with Bonner filling in situationally when the Sixers need better spacing.

Is that correct?

Yes, although Douglas might get some minutes depending on how he's played in the playoffs up to this point.  When Wade sits, Iguodala will be on the court, so Barbosa's offense won't be too needed.  Douglas is an equal shooter and better defender.

Don't sleep on the Wade/Barbosa/Iguodala lineup though.  Two of the most athletic players + possibly the fastest player in the NBA?  I don't think there's a team in this league that can keep up with them.

[Kane3387]

Lebron, Wade and Bosh got to the finals


And lost

I don't really buy the "Miami lost, so that says something about Philly" argument.

Lebron and Wade fit together quite well.  They were the 3rd best team in the NBA offensively, and 5th defensively.  They should have won a championship, and had the personnel to do so.  They fell short for one reason:  Lebron disappeared in the Finals.  

That's it.  It wasn't Dirk's stellar play, it wasn't the fantastic Mavericks scheme, it wasn't an internal flaw of the Heat.  Rather, the Heat's superstar, Lebron, choked.

Wade was fantastic in the Finals.  Put him next to another star who actually plays like a star, and the Heat win handily.

I am sorry, but AI2 can not be put in Lebrons place as an argument for equal outcomes.  

I think AI2 can be put in Lebron's place *if you're comparing the Finals*.  

Lebron's Finals statistics:  17.8 points, 6.8 assists, 7.1 rebounds, 4.0 turnovers, 47% FG%, 32% 3PT% in 44 minutes per game.

Is it that crazy to think that AI2 can put up an 18/7/7 line in 44 minutes?  If Philly's small forward position didn't produce those numbers, I'd be absolutely shocked.

I will take Williams, Deng and Duncan over Dirk and whoever else from Dallas but that is me. But that's me.

I will also take them over Miami's big three when Lebron is this year's finals Lebron.

[Roy H.]

I will take Williams, Deng and Duncan over Dirk and whoever else. But that's me.

Eh...  Give me the "real" Mavs over the Fake Knicks, although I think that's wholly irrelevant.  Dirk + Kidd + Terry + Marion + Chandler is simply better than this Knicks team, in my mind.

[Kane3387]

At the moment, I think the two forward positions are evenly matched and that Tim Duncan has a slight matchup advantage at the center position with Wade and Deron having matchup advantages against their opposite numbers.

Phily will have an advantage with their backup guard (Barbosa vs Dooling). I forget who their backup big men are. Need to check on that.

Um what?  What?  What?  What?  What?  What?  What?  What?

You better just be talking about SF because how in the world do Blair and Gibson match up with West and KMart?

As for SF, they have the same scoring, same rebounding, slight edge to Iggy in defense, and Iguodala is like 5 times the passer Deng is.  I think I've got that position too.  Here's your stats Kane.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=iguodan01&p2=denglu01

Thanks very much. I see this match-up still as a wash if minutes are the same. I don't really see an overall edge here for either. Great stats. Thanks mgent.

[Gainesville Celtic]

Simply put....I think the Sixers are just a better team and New York has way overachieved getting to this point.

Nuh-uh!! Knicks are better!

Philly is a very good team and this is a close series. But were gonna keep overachieving to the finals!!!!!

[mgent]

PG -  Adv Knicks

Hinrich actually tore it up against Deron the several times they've played.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=hinriki01&p2=willide01


SG -  huge Adv 76ers

Two bad defenders vs. the 2nd best player in the game


SF -  small Adv 76ers

About even until you take passing into the equation

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=iguodan01&p2=denglu01


PF -  Adv 76ers

New York's other weakness happens to be my second best scorer


C  -  even

Duncan will be 36 by next year's playoffs, and his game will continue to decline.  My frontcourt is too mobile, he'll probably hurt them more than he'll help.

I see Knicks having the advantage at three positions and a better overall fit.


I am seeing the 76ers and real Heat lite.  Without the Heat's best player. 

And with LeBron-lite, more size, defense and rebounding at the 5, better defense at the 1, a better fit at PF, an UNBELIEVABLY better bench, a more well-rounded/versatile offense, and a better overall defense.

Bosh is better then West.  


Bosh last season had to be a third option behind two of the biggest volume shooters in the NBA.  


West had the best PG in the NBA.  

I agree, Bosh is lousy as a 3rd option, he's destined to be the 1st option on a bad team.

He was primarily a faceup/jumpshooter on the Heat.  West brings a better back-to-the-basket game, and I think is slightly better in the pick and roll (running it with Wade instead of Paul will make him more effective if anything).  He doesn't have more talent than Bosh, but I think he's a better fit.

Wade is not a better pick and roll player then CP3. I need numbers to believe that. I think West suffers going from an offense run by CP3 to an offense run by Wade.

Maybe, maybe not.  Paul is a better passer, but Wade is as fast, a better finisher, 10 times stronger, twice the scorer, and more likely to draw the double.  It's not just Wade's passing that makes him incredible at the pick and roll, it's having the best/most explosive first step in the league

[Roy H.]

Simply put....I think the Sixers are just a better team and New York has way overachieved getting to this point.

Nuh-uh!! Knicks are better!

Philly is a very good team and this is a close series. But were gonna keep overachieving to the finals!!!!!

What type of production are you expecting out of Duncan, Deng, and Deron individually?