2011 CB Draft Eastern Playoffs: 1st Round

[nickagneta]

Wow GC!!! I thought it was clear it was a joke!!!

And I did read the whole thing and somewhat agree with you. I just don't like the "others agree with me because of where they were drafted" reasoning. Its a cop out that should never be used IMHO.

Maybe one player was drafted way too high(Harden probably was drafted too high). Maybe another was drafted too low(Rip might have been drafted low but maybe not). Maybe a lot of GMs were drafting for need in between the players(they were). Maybe some GMs just make mistakes(there were a good share of those too).

I like your reasoning for Harden being better than Rip and like your Nick Young vs Rip comparison. I was just pulling your leg on whipping out the my player was chosen first card which I believe most vets in this game know is a bad argument.

Haha, my bad Nick.  the knicks are feeling defensive   (though what else would you expect from a Thibodeau-coached team than defensiveness  )

I just wanted to make clear that I too don't like that as a reason why one player is better than the other and thought i'd gone to lengths to word it properly.

We cool GC. And keep up the great arguments and stats. They are starting to sway me your way.

TP.

[KCattheStripe]

The Pacers have a slight lead in my mind.  This series is the reason I haven't voted yet.

What's holding you up? Is there any questions either me or KC could answer that'd help you w/ your decision?

My plan was to sleep on it and ask questions tomorrow.

If KC's players were even the least bit proven he'd be out of your reach I think.

What is unproven about Horford, Holiday, Turkoglu, Stuckey, Jameer, Arthur or Jones?

[StartOrien]

Way #11 : Playoff Experience
 

[mgent]

The Pacers have a slight lead in my mind.  This series is the reason I haven't voted yet.

What's holding you up? Is there any questions either me or KC could answer that'd help you w/ your decision?

My plan was to sleep on it and ask questions tomorrow.

If KC's players were even the least bit proven he'd be out of your reach I think.

What is unproven about Horford, Holiday, Turkoglu, Stuckey, Jameer, Arthur or Jones?

Horford and Turk aren't but Holiday, Monroe, and Gordon are.

They're good enough to make the playoffs, but I'm not convinced they can beat the Pacers as of right now (my opinion is malleable).

[Kane3387]

This is the toughest in the east. Took me a while and I did some flip flopping but I think Felton makes Nash work too much on defense in the end. I think Washington wins the 7th game at home.

Bulls have home court. Washington would have to win on the road. And that might ultimately be why I give this series to Chicago.

Still not sure and it's why we haven't voted yet. We want to hear more from the owners on the NY/NJ and WAS/CHI series before making our vote.

Then why does the thread have Washington as the 4 seed?

[Roy H.]

This is the toughest in the east. Took me a while and I did some flip flopping but I think Felton makes Nash work too much on defense in the end. I think Washington wins the 7th game at home.

Bulls have home court. Washington would have to win on the road. And that might ultimately be why I give this series to Chicago.

Still not sure and it's why we haven't voted yet. We want to hear more from the owners on the NY/NJ and WAS/CHI series before making our vote.

Then why does the thread have Washington as the 4 seed?

NBA seeding rules.  Washington is the division winner, so they're guaranteed a top-4 seed, even though they finished behind Chicago.  However, the team with a better record gets home court.

[KCattheStripe]

The Pacers have a slight lead in my mind.  This series is the reason I haven't voted yet.

What's holding you up? Is there any questions either me or KC could answer that'd help you w/ your decision?

My plan was to sleep on it and ask questions tomorrow.

If KC's players were even the least bit proven he'd be out of your reach I think.

What is unproven about Horford, Holiday, Turkoglu, Stuckey, Jameer, Arthur or Jones?

Horford and Turk aren't but Holiday, Monroe, and Gordon are.

They're good enough to make the playoffs, but I'm not convinced they can beat the Pacers as of right now (my opinion is malleable).

Here's the thing MGent, beyond Tony Parker the playoff experience of the Grizzlies really isn't that more extensive than my team. Randolph and Gasol have each made one moderate Run. Courtney Lee was the 5th best player on a team that made the NBA finals. Then when you look on the bench, they really have two players who have made significant playoff contributions whereas I have 4.

[StartOrien]

Here's a super long post about what Paul George did well and not so well against Derek Rose in game 2 of the playoffs:

http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/04/19/the-pacers-defense-on-derrick-rose/

[Kane3387]

Deron Williams is on a whole different level than Conley.

This is a big understatement IMO and I don't think D Will is getting the respect he deserves in this thread. This is a great subway series though. 

[KCattheStripe]

Here's a super long post about what Paul George did well and not so well against Derek Rose in game 2 of the playoffs:

http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/04/19/the-pacers-defense-on-derrick-rose/

That will be helpful when i have one player dominate the ball a lot... Oh wait, my starting 5 has four excellent passers.

[nickagneta]

The Pacers have a slight lead in my mind.  This series is the reason I haven't voted yet.

What's holding you up? Is there any questions either me or KC could answer that'd help you w/ your decision?

My plan was to sleep on it and ask questions tomorrow.

If KC's players were even the least bit proven he'd be out of your reach I think.

What is unproven about Horford, Holiday, Turkoglu, Stuckey, Jameer, Arthur or Jones?

Horford and Turk aren't but Holiday, Monroe, and Gordon are.

They're good enough to make the playoffs, but I'm not convinced they can beat the Pacers as of right now (my opinion is malleable).

Here's the thing MGent, beyond Tony Parker the playoff experience of the Grizzlies really isn't that more extensive than my team. Randolph and Gasol have each made one moderate Run. Courtney Lee was the 5th best player on a team that made the NBA finals. Then when you look on the bench, they really have two players who have made significant playoff contributions whereas I have 4.

4 players from your bench with significant playoff experience??

What, are you counting Darrell Arthur's and Rodney Stuckey's WHOLE combined 700 minutes of play in the playoffs?

There are words I would use to describe their playoff experience....significant isn't one of them.

EDIT:

Does Jason Collins 90 playoff games and nearly 2000 playoff minutes count as significant?

Does Jeff Teague's 17 games and 300 minutes?

What about Channing Frye's 20 games and 470 minutes?

Chuck Hayes 20 Games and 470 minutes?

If Stuckey and Darrell Arthur have significant playoff experience then I have to believe that much of Indiana's bench does as well.

[KCattheStripe]

The Pacers have a slight lead in my mind.  This series is the reason I haven't voted yet.

What's holding you up? Is there any questions either me or KC could answer that'd help you w/ your decision?

My plan was to sleep on it and ask questions tomorrow.

If KC's players were even the least bit proven he'd be out of your reach I think.

What is unproven about Horford, Holiday, Turkoglu, Stuckey, Jameer, Arthur or Jones?

Horford and Turk aren't but Holiday, Monroe, and Gordon are.

They're good enough to make the playoffs, but I'm not convinced they can beat the Pacers as of right now (my opinion is malleable).

Here's the thing MGent, beyond Tony Parker the playoff experience of the Grizzlies really isn't that more extensive than my team. Randolph and Gasol have each made one moderate Run. Courtney Lee was the 5th best player on a team that made the NBA finals. Then when you look on the bench, they really have two players who have made significant playoff contributions whereas I have 4.

4 players from your bench with significant playoff experience??

What, are you counting Darrell Arthur's and Rodney Stuckey's WHOLE combined 700 minutes of play in the playoffs?

There are words I would use to describe their playoff experience....significant isn't one of them.

Stuckey was the 6th man on an Eastern Conference Finalist. I've heard of haters gonna hate, but Dang.

[Kane3387]

I think Philly wins in six. Cp3 won two games with less talent against a better Team in reality. Also don't like iggy and wade as much in the half court. Both need the ball. Iggy actually needs it more in the half court then wade. He really excels in the open court, but I don't know about him in the half court without the ball. Hinrich complements each of them but he can't distribute to these guys like say rajon rondo could.

Wade and Paul will cancel each other out but Philly has more fire power overall and wins in a competitive six games series.

You mean like Wade and LeBron, the Eastern Conference Champions?

Iguodala DEFINITELY doesn't need the ball more than Wade.  He's effective with the ball because he's a point forward, he doesn't need it.  He's never had more than a 24 usage and last year had 19.2, compared to LeBron and Wade's 31-35 over their careers.  Last year Jrue Holiday had a higher usage than Iguodala.

Hinrich is a serviceable distributor, and won't even need to play that role considering the shot creating in Wade and Iguodala (both for themselves and other players).

And finally, Wade and Paul most certainly do not cancel each other out.  So all 3 of your points are wrong in my opinion.

Look I know when you look at numbers you see similarities between iggy and lbj and to an extent there are a few. Still let's not kid ourselves it's not even close. You're talking About a guy who has been an all star as many times as you or I and a two time MVP. The game planning for James vs dre is not close and lebron does so much more that doesn't show up on a stat sheet.

Again this team in the open court is scary but in the half court I think it can struggle more then you want to admit. Your three point shooting is average and you're starting two PFs.

That being said you made a very good team. My only criticism would be complementing wade with an all star big then another wing man, albeit a solid one. Still there is a reason iggy is ALWAYS in trade rumors.

As for Hinrich he is a solid player but far from elite. He can shoot but he's not a sharpshooter. Even in Chicago that was Ben gordons role. Hinrich is a good set shooter which is nice for your team but he isn't the guy who really excels at running an offense which I think you need to keep your big three involved. I mean George teague was starting to take his minutes in Atlanta before he got hurt.

I think you're in the ECF though for sure even if you play Washington. But I think the pacers beat you unless you're playing an uptempo style which normally isn't the case in the playoffs.

[nickagneta]

The Pacers have a slight lead in my mind.  This series is the reason I haven't voted yet.

What's holding you up? Is there any questions either me or KC could answer that'd help you w/ your decision?

My plan was to sleep on it and ask questions tomorrow.

If KC's players were even the least bit proven he'd be out of your reach I think.

What is unproven about Horford, Holiday, Turkoglu, Stuckey, Jameer, Arthur or Jones?

Horford and Turk aren't but Holiday, Monroe, and Gordon are.

They're good enough to make the playoffs, but I'm not convinced they can beat the Pacers as of right now (my opinion is malleable).

Here's the thing MGent, beyond Tony Parker the playoff experience of the Grizzlies really isn't that more extensive than my team. Randolph and Gasol have each made one moderate Run. Courtney Lee was the 5th best player on a team that made the NBA finals. Then when you look on the bench, they really have two players who have made significant playoff contributions whereas I have 4.

4 players from your bench with significant playoff experience??

What, are you counting Darrell Arthur's and Rodney Stuckey's WHOLE combined 700 minutes of play in the playoffs?

There are words I would use to describe their playoff experience....significant isn't one of them.

Stuckey was the 6th man on an Eastern Conference Finalist. I've heard of haters gonna hate, but Dang.

Its not hate....I just think you might be twisting the facts just a lot.

[KCattheStripe]

The Pacers have a slight lead in my mind.  This series is the reason I haven't voted yet.

What's holding you up? Is there any questions either me or KC could answer that'd help you w/ your decision?

My plan was to sleep on it and ask questions tomorrow.

If KC's players were even the least bit proven he'd be out of your reach I think.

What is unproven about Horford, Holiday, Turkoglu, Stuckey, Jameer, Arthur or Jones?

Horford and Turk aren't but Holiday, Monroe, and Gordon are.

They're good enough to make the playoffs, but I'm not convinced they can beat the Pacers as of right now (my opinion is malleable).

Here's the thing MGent, beyond Tony Parker the playoff experience of the Grizzlies really isn't that more extensive than my team. Randolph and Gasol have each made one moderate Run. Courtney Lee was the 5th best player on a team that made the NBA finals. Then when you look on the bench, they really have two players who have made significant playoff contributions whereas I have 4.

4 players from your bench with significant playoff experience??

What, are you counting Darrell Arthur's and Rodney Stuckey's WHOLE combined 700 minutes of play in the playoffs?

There are words I would use to describe their playoff experience....significant isn't one of them.

Stuckey was the 6th man on an Eastern Conference Finalist. I've heard of haters gonna hate, but Dang.

Its not hate....I just think you might be twisting the facts just a lot.

I don't think that citing a player's significant playoff experience performing the role I'm asking him to is twisting the facts at all. If Stuckey being the sixth man on an Eastern Conference finalist isn't significant then I'm not sure what is. And if Marc Gasol and ZBO are suddenly savvy playoff veterans, then surely their back up Darrel Arthur is a veteran at being the third man behind a two - headed front court.