2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings

[riah32]

Seventy-Sixers - duh
Pacers - not as big of a fan as everybody else, but the Celts just aren't good enough
Knicks - Nets have the best player but Knicks have the better starting 5 and bench
Bulls - I love the Bullets but Chicago is my team, I voted them 1st in conference

How do the knicks have a better starting 5 than the Nets? How is their bench better?

Williams adv Knicks Conley
Meeks Adv Nets Hamilton
Deng Adv Nets Durant
Gibson Adv Nets Scola
Duncan only slightly better than Perk at this point

Looks like 3 in my favor to 1/2 in the Knicks favor

Bench:

DoolingAdv Nets Irving and Farmar
Nick Young Adv Nets Cj Miles Rudy Fernandez
Blair Adv Nets  Gooden Charlie V
Tauriaf Adv Nets Anthony

Explain why you see it different then that?

It's more like:

Williams/Conley  big adv Knicks
Young/Hamilton  even
Deng/Durant  adv Nets
Gibson/Scola  adv Net
Duncan/Perk  adv Knicks

On the bench Blair is better than Villanueva and Turiaf is slightly better than Anthony but the rest could be argued either way.

If he starts young that signicantly hurts his team i think because i dont think he would have anyone to create their own their bench. Which is why I had Hamilton being better than Meeks whom GC said he was starting.

[mgent]

Seventy-Sixers - duh
Pacers - not as big of a fan as everybody else, but the Celts just aren't good enough
Knicks - Nets have the best player but Knicks have the better starting 5 and bench
Bulls - I love the Bullets but Chicago is my team, I voted them 1st in conference

How do the knicks have a better starting 5 than the Nets? How is their bench better?

Williams adv Knicks Conley
Meeks Adv Nets Hamilton
Deng Adv Nets Durant
Gibson Adv Nets Scola
Duncan only slightly better than Perk at this point

Looks like 3 in my favor to 1/2 in the Knicks favor

Bench:

DoolingAdv Nets Irving and Farmar
Nick Young Adv Nets Cj Miles Rudy Fernandez
Blair Adv Nets  Gooden Charlie V
Tauriaf Adv Nets Anthony

Explain why you see it different then that?

It's more like:

Williams/Conley  big adv Knicks
Young/Hamilton  even
Deng/Durant  adv Nets
Gibson/Scola  adv Net
Duncan/Perk  adv Knicks

On the bench Blair is better than Villanueva and Turiaf is slightly better than Anthony but the rest could be argued either way.

If he starts young that signicantly hurts his team i think because i dont think he would have anyone to create their own their bench. Which is why I had Hamilton being better than Meeks whom GC said he was starting.

I thought he said Young would come off the bench but would finish games/play more minutes.

[riah32]

Seventy-Sixers - duh
Pacers - not as big of a fan as everybody else, but the Celts just aren't good enough
Knicks - Nets have the best player but Knicks have the better starting 5 and bench
Bulls - I love the Bullets but Chicago is my team, I voted them 1st in conference

How do the knicks have a better starting 5 than the Nets? How is their bench better?

Williams adv Knicks Conley
Meeks Adv Nets Hamilton
Deng Adv Nets Durant
Gibson Adv Nets Scola
Duncan only slightly better than Perk at this point

Looks like 3 in my favor to 1/2 in the Knicks favor

Bench:

DoolingAdv Nets Irving and Farmar
Nick Young Adv Nets Cj Miles Rudy Fernandez
Blair Adv Nets  Gooden Charlie V
Tauriaf Adv Nets Anthony

Explain why you see it different then that?

It's more like:

Williams/Conley  big adv Knicks
Young/Hamilton  even
Deng/Durant  adv Nets
Gibson/Scola  adv Net
Duncan/Perk  adv Knicks

On the bench Blair is better than Villanueva and Turiaf is slightly better than Anthony but the rest could be argued either way.

If he starts young that signicantly hurts his team i think because i dont think he would have anyone to create their own their bench. Which is why I had Hamilton being better than Meeks whom GC said he was starting.

I thought he said Young would come off the bench but would finish games/play more minutes.

He did say that but I still think Hamilton is better, a Vet whose a team kinda guy. +

More facts for everyone as well, If you add his starts avg ppg from last year and add my startes totals ppg from last year it looks like this:

NY Knicks         Nets:
20.1              13.7
10.5              14.1
17.4              27.7
7.1               18.3
13.4              6.0-chances are Perkins #'s goes up a little
____              ____
68.5              79.8

Even if I sub Young in for meeks #'s it comes out in my favor by 4 pts.

[mgent]

Young is a better scorer and 3pt shooter, Hamilton is a better passer and defender.  If Hamilton played like he did 2 years ago he's better than Young, but if he played like he did last year it's pretty much a wash.  More likely he'll just get older and slower at coming off of screens.

[mgent]

West
Suns - nothing to do with LeBron, I know a lot of people disagree with me having Phoenix #1 in the West, but I love their defense and passing, and they've got the experience to beat Sacto
Blazers - best frontcourt vs. worst frontcourt defense
Nuggets - Jazz are a vet. team but Denver has the defense and athleticism to beat them
Warriors - starters are pretty equal but GS has the best bench in the game


East
76ers
Pacers - not as big of a fan as everybody else, but the Celts just aren't good enough
Knicks - Nets have the best player but Knicks have the better starting 5 and bench
Bulls - I love the Bullets but Chicago is my team, I voted them 1st in conference

[nickagneta]

West
Suns - nothing to do with LeBron, I know a lot of people disagree with me having Phoenix #1 in the West, but I love their defense and passing, and they've got the experience to beat Sacto

There's one of the votes we knew we weren't getting.

[mgent]

West
Suns - nothing to do with LeBron, I know a lot of people disagree with me having Phoenix #1 in the West, but I love their defense and passing, and they've got the experience to beat Sacto

There's one of the votes we knew we weren't getting.

Don't worry I've got you beating the rest of the teams in your conference and my first round vote won't make a difference for you.

If healthy I honestly think they're a more proven team (despite you being the better paper-team).  My gut told me they can beat you, and I never question my gut.

It was the hardest decision for me out of all the match-ups.

[Roy H.]

Final ballot:

Kings
Blazers
Jazz
Warriors (coin flip)

[mgent]

COIN FLIP!  Why didn't I think of that?  Oh well too late.

[indeedproceed]

East:
Pacers
Knicks
76ers
Bullets

West
Blazers
Jazz
Grizzlies
Kings

[Gainesville Celtic]

If he starts young that signicantly hurts his team i think because i dont think he would have anyone to create their own their bench. Which is why I had Hamilton being better than Meeks whom GC said he was starting.

I thought he said Young would come off the bench but would finish games/play more minutes.

I *did* say that... multiple times....and gave the reasons for it.

But PLEASE everyone don't let what I say stand in the way of the "facts" Riah is staking this matchup on:  

...I still think Hamilton is better, a Vet whose a team kinda guy. + More facts for everyone as well,...

You heard it here: Hamilton is a better player who's a "team-kinda" guy.


There is however, kind of a different picture painted by some of the writers who actually, you know, follow the team year-round:

Richard Hamilton situation getting messy for Pistons (emphasis added)

It's not that fans fail to appreciate Rip Hamilton's contributions to the Pistons' championship renaissance, but the longer he remains, the longer it takes for this franchise to turn the page and move forward.

We're tired.

We're tired of the moping when things aren't going his way. We're tired of the insolence during games that has resulted in seven technical fouls this season -- tied for third in the NBA. We're tired of the closed-door machinations against the Pistons' coach du jour.

If only we could all have that type of "team-first" guy on our team  

But we all know that the problems on the Pistons had nothing to do with Rip -- a leader and team first guy... they were all John Kuester's fault, right?

Nevermind that in a 2009 Detroit News article Hamilton said the problems with then-coach Michael Curry wouldn't have existed if John Kuester had been the coach.

Or that Detroit Free Press columnist wrote in Jan 2009 that “Hamilton’s attitude teetered at the brink of open mutiny, questioning Curry’s coaching expertise on the basis of his limited skills as a player.”

Odd for a team-first guy to throw two different coaches under the bus.

If you ask me, it sounds very much like what I argued in the voting thread --- that Hamilton (and some voters here evidently) still think he's the Hamilton of 2003-2009, when he's clearly not and he's having a heck of time coping with it (which isn't the first time, to be sure, that a former all-star couldn't accept his decline in skills).

NBA Sabermatrician Dave Beri, a lifelong Piston's fan, is surprised by this notion/claim & doesn't want to believe it.... but after digging a bit deeper finds it to be true:

The Pistons Finally Learn the Rip Hamilton Contract Extension Was Not A Great Idea

Here is how Rob Otto summarized this situation at MLive.com:

"With the potential trade dead, now the team has lost the built-in excuse for benching Hamilton.  Now if he remains out of action, they are going to have to admit the real reason why: because the Pistons are a better team without Rip Hamilton."

Are the Pistons really better off without Hamilton?  The numbers seem to agree with this assessment....

Let’s focus now on why Richard Hamilton isn’t that helpful (see chart at above link)...These numbers indicate that Hamilton is above average with respect to getting assists, getting to the free throw line, hitting free throw shots, and taking field goal attempts. He is generally below average with respect to shooting efficiency from the field.  But because he takes a large number of field goal attempts, Hamilton is an above average scorer...

When we move past scoring, though, we see that getting shots from the field to actually go in the basket is not the only issue for Hamilton. Relative to other shooting guards, Hamilton is also below average with respect to rebounds, steals, blocked shots, turnovers, and personal fouls.  

But what about that Jodie Meeks guy?!?!???! I hear he only scores 10 points a game and keeps his mouth shut ---- clear disadvantage: KNICKS!!  

[Gainesville Celtic]

More facts for everyone as well, If you add his starts avg ppg from last year and add my startes totals ppg from last year it looks like this:

NY Knicks         Nets:
20.1              13.7
10.5              14.1
17.4              27.7
7.1               18.3
13.4              6.0-chances are Perkins #'s goes up a little
____              ____
68.5              79.8

Even if I sub Young in for meeks #'s it comes out in my favor by 4 pts.

Ah, yes.... BUT... if any one of my guys scores, say 1,000 points in a game then that 4 point deficit turns into a 994 point advantage!!!!! 


------------------

Let me also just add that while Riah and I have been going back and forth quite a bit, I think it's because we've both built quality teams. We've got nothing but respect and ubuntu for Riah & the Nyets. TP's Riah....

[indeedproceed]

Since I'm still awake, I'd like to say how much I love my own team, and this draft. I'm from ny, and I became a self affirmed Amare and Landy fields fan this year. He could score on something really hard to score on, like it was really easy to score on. (my metaphors escape me). To the point where it almost seems unfair.

Building around him was easy, once I got Bogut. I became a Bogut fan in 09-10 when he just became a defensive force of epic proportions. Nobody knew that when he entered the league that he had thar kind of potential.

Then, I got another binky. I have never had a more rewarding experience in this draft than watching Kyle Lowry exceed literally all expectations in the latter half of last season. For the last 20 or so games last season he was literally if not the best Pg in the league, he was one of the top 3.

Getting harden and williams was Pure Happy Joy. I'm assuming we alll saw harden in this season's playoffs; and Williams in the ncaa tourney. Two guys who are only going to get better and right now Are pretty [dang] good.

Then I get very very good role players and personal favorites delfino ( blame Roy Hobbs and others for this), sessions, and Jerebko. Surround them with capable bench players Anthony morrow, and Anthony Tolliver and I'm just in love.

I love this team and this draft; I think about them alll the time. Thanks guys for hanging around.

[Bahku]

Since I'm still awake, I'd like to say how much I love my own team, and this draft. I'm from ny, and I became a self affirmed Amare and Landy fields fan this year. He could score on something really hard to score on, like it was really easy to score on. (my metaphors escape me). To the point where it almost seems unfair.

Building around him was easy, once I got Bogut. I became a Bogut fan in 09-10 when he just became a defensive force of epic proportions. Nobody knew that when he entered the league that he had thar kind of potential.

Then, I got another binky. I have never had a more rewarding experience in this draft than watching Kyle Lowry exceed literally all expectations in the latter half of last season. For the last 20 or so games last season he was literally if not the best Pg in the league, he was one of the top 3.

Getting harden and williams was Pure Happy Joy. I'm assuming we alll saw harden in this season's playoffs; and Williams in the ncaa tourney. Two guys who are only going to get better and right now Are pretty [dang] good.

Then I get very very good role players and personal favorites delfino ( blame Roy Hobbs and others for this), sessions, and Jerebko. Surround them with capable bench players Anthony morrow, and Anthony Tolliver and I'm just in love.

I love this team and this draft; I think about them alll the time. Thanks guys for hanging around.

There's a lot to love there, IP, and it's understandable ... when you put as much work into something as you have this draft, it either drives you crazy or becomes a labor of love, (and it's clear to see that it's the latter in your case).

While I personally have not had the extra time I would've liked to be more involved in the daily banter, I have still had a great time doing it, and I have learned a lot. I'm a rookie at this fantasy draft stuff, (other than the Pick-Two and All-Time), and while I'm sure I've tested the patience of those around me at times, I've caught the "bug", so to speak, and hope to have more time to participate in others in the future.

For anyone who loves sports and basketball, there really is no better way to learn about the league and it's players, and what goes into assessing talent and putting successful teams together. I love your team as well ... I've always been a Stoudemire fan, and I think the rest of your team is a reflection of him - a balance of offense and defense, and a cohesive mix of experience and explosiveness.

Yes, there are players on other teams who are better on a one-to-one level, but a successful team takes balance, chemistry and strength at both ends of the floor, and if people take the time to see how well your players mesh both athletically and emotionally, they'll realize that this Portland club should go very deep into these playoffs.

I'm probably the only one who thinks so, but I love my team as well, and would enjoy seeing their explosiveness in action on the court. I'm sure most people end up feeling the same way about their own teams, and it's probably because of how intimately we each get to know our players by the time we've finally gotten the whole package in order to our liking, (or as close as we can come by the trade deadline).

Yes, my boys are certainly lacking that defensive intensity and experience that make up a playoff team, but I still believe they would be exciting to watch, (especially shooting and at the rim), and that's how I went about putting my team together, on the basis of what I felt would be a fast-breaking, young and energetic offense.

Thanks again for all your efforts ... I think it's safe to say that this draft was a huge success, and something you can be proud of, (as is your team also).

[Donoghus]

How my vote went down. 

Toughest series to call for me was NY/NJ. Saw chalk this round.  For the most part, I didn't see many problems for the high seeds here.

Eastern Conference

Philadephia 76ers
Washington Wizards
Indiana Pacers
New York Knicks

Western Conference

Sacramento Kings
Memphis Grizzlies
Portland Trailblazers
Utah Jazz