2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings

[Roy H.]

okc snubbed on selection sunday

this really surprises me. people state a lbj team would make the playoffs no matter the supporting cast.  i would say the same thing about a kobe team, no matter his age.

Because we have seen Kobe with Odom and Butler just sneak into the playoffs


While Lebron carried that Cavs team (with no talent at Odom's level) to the best record in the NBA.  

Yeah, people forget, but back in 2005 Kobe led a Butler/Odom team to a 34-48 record (and missed the playoffs).  That was a poor supporting cast, but it does show that Kobe can't do it on his own (and that was a much better Kobe, in a shallower league).

[nickagneta]

okc snubbed on selection sunday

this really surprises me. people state a lbj team would make the playoffs no matter the supporting cast.  i would say the same thing about a kobe team, no matter his age.

I think I have to agree. I had OKC making the playoffs but barely. I thought them better than Memphis but not by a lot as both team's frontcourt leave a lot to be desired.

But by including Kobe/Rondo/Artest/Dalambert out I leave out a team of Rose/Ray/Prince/Hibbert(better than most people give him credit for) which overall is pretty dang good. And if I don't leave them out then who:

Kidd/Manu/Odom/Bynum/Marvin Williams?
Dirk/Lee/Curry/Miller/Camby?
Big Al/KG/Pierce/Butler/Davis?
Amare/Bogut/Lowry/Harden Delfino?
Nene/Bosh/Joe Johnson/Calderon/Dorrell Wright?
LeBron/Billups/Millsap/Chandler/Matthews/Diaw/Jennings?
Afflalo/Westbrook/Boozer/Kaman/Grant Hill?

Its a loaded conference.

Memphis should have made it in my book but I can understand how they didn't because besides Rondo and Kobe, there's not a whole lot on that team that people like.

Dalembert has had a rep of being a bit lazy and disappointing as compared to his contract for years.

Mo Williams has maybe the worst reputation in this CB Draft.

Artest is a head case, universally despised and is coming off a bad year.

Tyrus Thomas is a young, immature headcase who has never lived up to his draft position or shown that he will be anything more than a selfish, unfocused player.

QRich is another highly disliked player around these parts.

Jamison is old and slowing down fast.

Must I list the reasons why people wouldn't like Darko?

If OKC was in the East they would have made the playoffs as probably a 6, 7 or 8 seed. Out West, people decided they just didn't like the team that much and I can see why.

[KCattheStripe]

Subjective game is subjective.

[indeedproceed]

If OKC was in the East they would have made the playoffs as probably a 6, 7 or 8 seed. Out West, people decided they just didn't like the team that much and I can see why.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Kevin Love trade completely change that OKC team from a fringe shot as a contender to a fringe playoff team.

Rondo is coming off a bad year and already has a limited skill-set, and Kevin Love is a gifted passer, an elite rebounder, and a very good player at stretching the floor.

I think I would've voted a Mo Williams, Kobe, a decent shooting/defending/facilitating SF, Love, and like a Spencer Hawes would've made the NW the toughest division this draft has ever seen, and I think a case could be made for all them being in the conversation for the #1 seed in the regular conference.

But besides the Deron/Monta pairing, I didn't see a 'fit' I liked worse than Rondo/Kobe. I think it plays to both their weaknesses offensively and chemistry-wise, and to neither of their offensive strengths.

[Roy H.]

If OKC was in the East they would have made the playoffs as probably a 6, 7 or 8 seed. Out West, people decided they just didn't like the team that much and I can see why.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Kevin Love trade completely change that OKC team from a fringe shot as a contender to a fringe playoff team.

Rondo is coming off a bad year and already has a limited skill-set, and Kevin Love is a gifted passer, an elite rebounder, and a very good player at stretching the floor.

I think I would've voted a Mo Williams, Kobe, a decent shooting/defending/facilitating SF, Love, and like a Spencer Hawes would've made the NW the toughest division this draft has ever seen, and I think a case could be made for all them being in the conversation for the #1 seed in the regular conference.

But besides the Deron/Monta pairing, I didn't see a 'fit' I liked worse than Rondo/Kobe. I think it plays to both their weaknesses offensively and chemistry-wise, and to neither of their offensive strengths.

I didn't like OKC with Love very much.  I did like them with Carmelo.  I think the Thunder panicked and responded to some criticism, rather than defend their Kobe/Carmelo vision (which was pretty solid with Williams/Rashard as running mates).

Btw, Spencer Hawes really sucks.  His numbers aren't too bad, but that kid has no basketball IQ at all.  A lineup of Williams/Kobe/G. Hill/Love/Hawes, in my mind, is pretty much middle of the pack, and is nowhere near a #1 seed.  (I picked Hill as the type of player you described, but insert your own choice, and I'm sure my opinion wouldn't change much.)

[celticpride07]

i didnt matter if it was kobe nash, kobe melo, kobe love, kobe rondo, y'all labeled each pairing as a bad fit so i don't understand..y'all most hate kobe which is understandable around new england but he is the "the blach mamba" 5 rings, greatest player of this generation arguable

[Roy H.]

i didnt matter if it was kobe nash, kobe melo, kobe love, kobe rondo, y'all labeled each pairing as a bad fit so i don't understand..y'all most hate kobe which is understandable around new england but he is the "the blach mamba" 5 rings, greatest player of this generation arguable

Ranking those combos, here's how I see them:

1.  Kobe / Melo.  Having two high-usage perimeter players isn't ideal, but Kobe and Melo could make it work, I think.  Melo is a good shooter, and would still get plenty of shots in the offense.  Next to Mo Williams and Rashard Lewis, this would have been a potent offense.

2.  Kobe / Love.  This combo allows Kobe the most shots, and allows Love to just grab rebounds and to utilize his perimeter skills.  Love is a pretty bad defender, but his rebounding is a very strong skill.

3.  Kobe / Nash.  A lot of Nash's skills are wasted, because Kobe needs the ball.  Nash would often be relegated to a Steve Kerr role, which he would be great in, but would be a major under-utilization. 

4.  Kobe / Rondo.  See #3 above, except Rondo can't shoot.

[Who]

i didnt matter if it was kobe nash, kobe melo, kobe love, kobe rondo, y'all labeled each pairing as a bad fit so i don't understand..y'all most hate kobe which is understandable around new england but he is the "the blach mamba" 5 rings, greatest player of this generation arguable

Ranking those combos, here's how I see them:

1.  Kobe / Melo.  Having two high-usage perimeter players isn't ideal, but Kobe and Melo could make it work, I think.  Melo is a good shooter, and would still get plenty of shots in the offense.  Next to Mo Williams and Rashard Lewis, this would have been a potent offense.

2.  Kobe / Love.  This combo allows Kobe the most shots, and allows Love to just grab rebounds and to utilize his perimeter skills.  Love is a pretty bad defender, but his rebounding is a very strong skill.

3.  Kobe / Nash.  A lot of Nash's skills are wasted, because Kobe needs the ball.  Nash would often be relegated to a Steve Kerr role, which he would be great in, but would be a major under-utilization.  

4.  Kobe / Rondo.  See #3 above, except Rondo can't shoot.

(1) Kobe and Melo
(2) Kobe and Nash
(3) Kobe and Rondo
(4) Kobe and K-Love

Neither Nash or Rondo would be relegated to a Steve Kerr type role. There would be some diminished returns but nothing that extreme.

OKC would just have ended up with a performance more akin to Dallas Mavericks Steve Nash (All-Star + 3rd team All-NBA) instead of Phoenix Suns Steve Nash (2 time MVP).

The Melo and Kobe combo would have be a fearsome duo. They could have built an exceptional power lineup around those players. Beat up on teams.

[indeedproceed]

All done with the press release threads. Eastern Conference teams, get ready to start your Hype Machines. Turn your headphones up to 'Hyperbole' and get set to start spittin game!

[indeedproceed]

i didnt matter if it was kobe nash, kobe melo, kobe love, kobe rondo, y'all labeled each pairing as a bad fit so i don't understand..y'all most hate kobe which is understandable around new england but he is the "the blach mamba" 5 rings, greatest player of this generation arguable

Yeah...I didn't like Kobe/Nash, Kobe/Melo, or Kobe/Rondo.

I'm a firm believer that Kobe needs a premier big man to work effectively, and its mostly due to the year he missed the playoffs. He plays with a top-5 PF now, and a top-5 center (kinda...I have very mixed feelings on Bynum).

When he hasn't played with those guys, he hasn't done nearly as well.

[StartOrien]

i didnt matter if it was kobe nash, kobe melo, kobe love, kobe rondo, y'all labeled each pairing as a bad fit so i don't understand..y'all most hate kobe which is understandable around new england but he is the "the blach mamba" 5 rings, greatest player of this generation arguable

Yeah...I didn't like Kobe/Nash, Kobe/Melo, or Kobe/Rondo.

I'm a firm believer that Kobe needs a premier big man to work effectively, and its mostly due to the year he missed the playoffs. He plays with a top-5 PF now, and a top-5 center (kinda...I have very mixed feelings on Bynum).

When he hasn't played with those guys, he hasn't done nearly as well.

Ewing theory?

[Fafnir]

i didnt matter if it was kobe nash, kobe melo, kobe love, kobe rondo, y'all labeled each pairing as a bad fit so i don't understand..y'all most hate kobe which is understandable around new england but he is the "the blach mamba" 5 rings, greatest player of this generation arguable

Yeah...I didn't like Kobe/Nash, Kobe/Melo, or Kobe/Rondo.

I'm a firm believer that Kobe needs a premier big man to work effectively, and its mostly due to the year he missed the playoffs. He plays with a top-5 PF now, and a top-5 center (kinda...I have very mixed feelings on Bynum).

When he hasn't played with those guys, he hasn't done nearly as well.

Ewing theory?

Not really, its a lot easier to do well with an all-star level post threat. That's true of any player.

[indeedproceed]

i didnt matter if it was kobe nash, kobe melo, kobe love, kobe rondo, y'all labeled each pairing as a bad fit so i don't understand..y'all most hate kobe which is understandable around new england but he is the "the blach mamba" 5 rings, greatest player of this generation arguable

Yeah...I didn't like Kobe/Nash, Kobe/Melo, or Kobe/Rondo.

I'm a firm believer that Kobe needs a premier big man to work effectively, and its mostly due to the year he missed the playoffs. He plays with a top-5 PF now, and a top-5 center (kinda...I have very mixed feelings on Bynum).

When he hasn't played with those guys, he hasn't done nearly as well.

Ewing theory?

Not really, Kobe has been the best player on a championship team.

But its like Faf said..he's gotta have a premier big man down there, and usually that big man has been a good passer, a good rebounder, a good defender, and a good scorer. Bynum and Gasol together equal that on every night, even when one of them doesn't really show up.

[action781]

i didnt matter if it was kobe nash, kobe melo, kobe love, kobe rondo, y'all labeled each pairing as a bad fit so i don't understand..y'all most hate kobe which is understandable around new england but he is the "the blach mamba" 5 rings, greatest player of this generation arguable

Yeah...I didn't like Kobe/Nash, Kobe/Melo, or Kobe/Rondo.

I'm a firm believer that Kobe needs a premier big man to work effectively, and its mostly due to the year he missed the playoffs. He plays with a top-5 PF now, and a top-5 center (kinda...I have very mixed feelings on Bynum).

When he hasn't played with those guys, he hasn't done nearly as well.

Ewing theory?

I thought the Ewing theory was when a team gets better when its all-star player gets hurt?

[indeedproceed]

i didnt matter if it was kobe nash, kobe melo, kobe love, kobe rondo, y'all labeled each pairing as a bad fit so i don't understand..y'all most hate kobe which is understandable around new england but he is the "the blach mamba" 5 rings, greatest player of this generation arguable

Yeah...I didn't like Kobe/Nash, Kobe/Melo, or Kobe/Rondo.

I'm a firm believer that Kobe needs a premier big man to work effectively, and its mostly due to the year he missed the playoffs. He plays with a top-5 PF now, and a top-5 center (kinda...I have very mixed feelings on Bynum).

When he hasn't played with those guys, he hasn't done nearly as well.

Ewing theory?

I thought the Ewing theory was when a team gets better when its all-star player gets hurt?

I actually looked it up to see if I was completely wrong, but that's what it has on wikipedia.

My understanding from SO's implication was that a team couldn't win with Kobe as a primary guy, because obviously they aren't gonna play better with him hurt.

Or maybe he was, who knows with that guy. Always bouncing around.

Where is the first blood drawn in the playoff thread, btw? Slackers.