Author Topic: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings  (Read 590924 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1020 on: July 23, 2011, 04:17:24 PM »

Offline Bahku

  • CB HOF Editor
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19771
  • Tommy Points: 3632
  • Oe ma krr pamtseotu
Thoughts on my team? Someone ... anyone ... please? ???

Over all i love you take Melo center your team around him


Thanks, Edgar ... I guess everyone else thinks my team is perfect, (either that or I'm suffering from "ghost post" disorder). ;) :P

Bahku why do you have Evan Turner at PF?  :D

Because I hadn't change my sig yet. If you'll notice in my reply a few pages back, (where I posted a detailed list of my team and videos to introduce my rookies), I have him and Tristan at "Forward", but they can both play the SG spot as well as SF.

Here's the link to my post:

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=49269.msg1041672#msg1041672

TP for the question though, Kane ... at least it's something. ;)

Bahku,

I think you are the likely front runner for the "Team of the Future" I was just wondering though.. where is the ball movement going to come from for the starters? Harris was largely criticized on here for not fitting with Lebron and now he is paired with Melo. I see similar issues there. Both are score first players. Also your rebounding... One thing I loved about Kevin Love was that he made sense next to Lopez for rebounding. Now I see you struggling on the glass against some of the better rebounding teams in this league.

Thoughts?

Yeah, I definitely lost a bit of rebounding from Love at that position, but overall as a "Team of the Future", (which is what I was shooting for from the get, with a #19 first-rounder), my youngsters are extremely talented and provide some solid back-up in that area. Thompson averages 7.8 RPG and 2.4 BPG, while Benson, (who is very KG-like, and in fact names him as his mentor), averages 10.1 RPG and 3.6 BPG, and at almost seven feet, is a formiddable force under the basket. (Hickson and Melo are no slouches when it comes to rebounding, either). Thank you kindly for the question! (TP)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 04:36:47 PM by Bahku »
2010 PAPOUG, 2012 & 2017 PAPTYG CHAMP, HD BOT

* BAHKU MUSIC *

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1021 on: July 23, 2011, 04:49:12 PM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
West
1. Dino-Boxer-Briefs
2. Nuggets
3. Grizzlies
4. Blazers
5. Suns
6. Warriors

East
2. Pacers
3. Bullets
4. Bulls
5. Pistons
6. Knicks


Liar!
Honestly, I ranked the East first and according to the team thread Detroit had James Harden.  So when I ranked the West I guess I kinda counted him out of your team.  Now I see he's in your sig though so I have to rethink both conferences.

Northwest is the hardest to judge in my opinion.  Nuggets are a really solid team.  I think Bosh is a better second option than Bogut.  I think that's where he'd be at his best, he's only ever been the 1st or the 3rd.  Amare might be a slightly better first option than Johnson, but the Nuggets have a better bench.

Defensively, the teams are about equal.  The only position that I think isn't a wash on defense is PG, where Hill has a slight advantage on Lowry.  Offensively, that's where the Nuggets have an edge.  That and their bench, the Blazers are gonna be too reliant on Williams and Splitter reaching their potential this year.  For the record, I think Portland is the best team of the future though.

I also think the Trailblazers will be too reliant on the health of both Amare and Bogut.  If one of them is out for any length they're screwed.  Plus they're really gonna need Lowry to sustain his high level play for them to be a contender.  Regardless of the Blazers not winning the division, I think they will be the 3rd seed.  Now that I know they have James Harden I'd bump them up to 3rd best record in the West.

Well, I disagree with a lot of what you said (most glaringly the George Hill having a slight defensive advantage on Lowry, Lowry was if not the best defensive PG in the league last year, in the top 2 or 3), but I can live with being the 3rd best team in some voters' minds. Denver has a really well-rounded team, Utah is solid, and OKC is no slouch either.
They're pretty equal defensively but I think George Hill is more versatile because he can slide into that 2 spot.  Lowry might be one of top 3 defensive PGs (Hill is at least top 5) but he's also in the top 3 smallest (Lawson and Collison are the only other starters in this league).  Both of your teams' main competition is Sacramento and Chauncey Billups is gonna post up Lowry every time he gets the ball.

Doesn't matter if you call it a slight advantage or a wash, these are still 2 of the better defenses in the league, and pretty much equal at each position.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1022 on: July 23, 2011, 04:50:27 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42585
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4snay3q9KY

Its only 3 minutes long, but it basically says Derrick Williams is fully capable of being effective from behind the 3pt line.

Beyond that though, its really interesting.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1023 on: July 23, 2011, 05:00:27 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42585
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
They're pretty equal defensively but I think George Hill is more versatile because he can slide into that 2 spot.  Lowry might be one of top 3 defensive PGs (Hill is at least top 5) but he's also in the top 3 smallest (Lawson and Collison are the only other starters in this league).  Both of your teams' main competition is Sacramento and Chauncey Billups is gonna post up Lowry every time he gets the ball.

Well Billups posts on basically everyone in the league. In the same way that you wouldn't call Rondo a defensive liability against Chauncey (Rondo is only an inch taller on paper than Lowry, and people have said numerous times that Rondo is shorter than his listed height), it doesn't apply to Lowry either.

Hill is more versatile because he can bother 2 guards more, but I'm never going to ask Lowry to guard 2 guards. Lowry is the better defender though both their natural positions, point.

Quote
Doesn't matter if you call it a slight advantage or a wash, these are still 2 of the better defenses in the league, and pretty much equal at each position.

Well, I don't think I'd call Bogut and Nene equal, or even close. Bogut is a much better defender, and that's backed up by all the defensive metrics I've looked at.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1024 on: July 23, 2011, 05:04:49 PM »

Offline Edgar

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24646
  • Tommy Points: 445
  • No contaban con mi astucia !!!
someone who doesnt have the deepest team in the league
top 5in his divition I wont even read

Go Pandas

Itscall El Salvador
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1025 on: July 23, 2011, 05:23:06 PM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
Rondo's not a liability, but not always effective against the bigger guards.  Posting up is by far the easiest way to score on Rondo.  Some PGs are speed-oriented and some PGs are strength-oriented.  Then you've got PGs that can guard both at a pretty high level but neither exceptionally.  Guys like Fisher and Kidd are much worse defenders than Rondo due to their speed liabilities but they're also better defenders vs. the really strong guards.

It's not a big deal because Lowry is a great defender, but it's still a weakness that certain players are going to be able to exploit.  It just so happens that there's a lot of big guards in your conference:  Chauncey, Kidd, Curry, Davis, Rubio, Rose, Westbrook.

Hill is going to have an easier time guarding those guys while being not that much worse than Lowry vs. guys like Collison and Lawson.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1026 on: July 23, 2011, 05:31:10 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42585
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
Rondo's not a liability, but not always effective against the bigger guards.  Posting up is by far the easiest way to score on Rondo.  Some PGs are speed-oriented and some PGs are strength-oriented.  Then you've got PGs that can guard both at a pretty high level but neither exceptionally.  Guys like Fisher and Kidd are much worse defenders than Rondo due to their speed liabilities but they're also better defenders vs. the really strong guards.

It's not a big deal because Lowry is a great defender, but it's still a weakness that certain players are going to be able to exploit.  It just so happens that there's a lot of big guards in your conference:  Chauncey, Kidd, Curry, Davis, Rubio, Rose, Westbrook.

Hill is going to have an easier time guarding those guys while being not that much worse than Lowry vs. guys like Collison and Lawson.

Against Post Ups last season, Kyle Lowry allowed .64 points per possession, which ranked 11th. Not against other point guards, not against other guards, but against the whole league.

I really think Lowry will be just fine, he's short, but strong like bull, and lightening fast.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1027 on: July 23, 2011, 08:47:45 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42585
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
Someone talk about how they think their team is better than mine.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1028 on: July 23, 2011, 09:27:26 PM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
Someone talk about how they think their team is better than mine.
I don't think anybody can defend their players harder than you defend Kyle Lowry  8)
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1029 on: July 23, 2011, 09:48:01 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42585
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
Someone talk about how they think their team is better than mine.
I don't think anybody can defend their players harder than Kyle Lowry defends other point guards 8)

Fixed

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1030 on: July 23, 2011, 11:47:33 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42585
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
South Beach Samurai
(Miami Heat)

C  - Brook Lopez, K Benson
PF - JJ Hickson, H Warrick, T Thompson
SF - Carmelo Anthony, E Turner, K Thompson
SG - A Morrow, J Bayless
PG - D Harris, D Gibson, J Fredette

Pros:
Scoring shouldn't be a problem for these guys. Every single player in the starting 5 is known primarily for being a scorer in one fashion or another. They've also got a little bit of everything in the starting lineup. They've got a high-post scoring big man in Lopez, they've got a tough finisher at the rim in Hickson, they've got a lights out shooter in Morrow, and a very quick penetrator in Devin Harris.

Then, to cap it all off they have a guy whom meany pundits and fans alike call the 'best pure scorer in basketball' in Carmelo Anthony. Stronger than the faster defenders, quicker than the strong ones, taller than the average swingman, and he has a VAST array of weapons to use to get the ball in the hoop. He can post, he can shoot, and he can finesse. He's also the guy who people talk about when they talk about the disappearance of the mid-range game, as in "You know what NBA players don't have anymore? A mid-range jumper. Its all dunks and 3pters. Well, except Carmelo Anthony."

On the bench they've got some real potentially potent weapons. Evan Turner could be a real game changer for the real-life 76ers, and he has the potential to be one of the biggest 'I told you so' picks of the draft considering where he was selected. Jerryd Bayless isn't really going to be a star, ever, but he's got a lot of potential in the right role. If that role is "Go out there, and score as much as you can as fast as you can," its a winner, and that'll be his role here. Klay Thompson is also a very good shooter. Tristan Thompson was an energy player who blossomed in college, and here off the bench he'll be exactly that again. 8 points, 8 rebounds, all effort, a guy after my own heart.

Cons:
Defense. I don't even think its worth really getting into too much, the defense is just going to be painful to watch. Lopez is not a good defender, and even worse it looked like he regressed a bit this past season. Hickson will try hard, but he's not an NBA-quality defender yet. Morrow, also is a terrible defender. Melo and Harris both have the potential to be very-good to elite defenders (very good in Melo's case, elite in Harris's), but I don't see how that's going to be the case here. George Karl is the coach here, and he couldn't get Melo to play consistent defense before, and this team will likely be worse than Denver was. Harris could get back to his earlier form, but its all about effort with him, and I don't think its very plausible that this team will create the type of environment that'll engender Harris to really care.

Rebounding will be the other big issue here. Hickson isn't the worst rebounder in the world, but he's far from elite. Melo is a very good rebounder from the 3, but you're still only looking at 7 boards in 36 minutes. Those two things will not be close to enough to compensate for the lack of rebounding from Brook Lopez. He might very well be the 2nd worst rebounding starting center, behind only Andrea Bargnani.

The last place this team suffers is ball movement. Hickson, Melo, and Anthony Morrow are all black holes, and Lopez and Harris are not the best guys to keep the ball moving.

Recommendation: Remove Hakeem Warrick from the equation. Tristan Thompson probably won't be a star in the NBA, but he and Hickson should split the time at the PF spot through at least the All-Star break, and it should only stop then if one of them emerges as a clear winner. Evan Turner should start at the 2 position for the same reason. Anthony Morrow is useful, but Evan Turner might be a real player one day. A borderline star. Morrow doesn't lay claim to that kind of ceiling, and Turner should get every chance to fulfill that potential. Also, move Bayless to the backup PG spot, and play him next to Turner. Turner has an all-around game that will help make-up for Bayless's lack of ball-movement.

Synopsis: It's a team of the future, so really all those cons aren't a death knell of any sort. Brook Lopez is worth gambling on, flaws and all. Tristan Thompson could really be a productive starter for a very good team some day. Evan Turner could be a special player as well, and Jimmer Fredette is everyone's dark horse for rookie of the year. If I were a fan of this team, I wouldn't be discouraged. Melo might be enough to keep the team on the fringes of the playoffs, and while I don't think he's the best choice as a leader, he has gotten to the conference finals as the best player on a team, and he's a superduperstar. The youngins will want to play better just to placate him.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1031 on: July 23, 2011, 11:51:05 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42585
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
nick I see you lurking. How come I'm the only guy writing insanely long diatribes on these other teams? Vacation party you out?

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1032 on: July 24, 2011, 12:04:53 AM »

Offline celticpride07

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1236
  • Tommy Points: 222
14 player 3 team mega blockbuster rumors flying before trade deadlne...
Pick 2 Heat: 
Pg: Jennings/Vasquez
Sg: Wade/R. Allen/Rivers
SF: Lebron/M. Williams
PF: Bosh/Humphries
C: B. Lopez/Dalembert/Anthony

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1033 on: July 24, 2011, 12:07:24 AM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
14 player 3 team mega blockbuster rumors flying before trade deadlne...
Let me in, I've never seen a 4 team trade in the draft.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #1034 on: July 24, 2011, 12:24:55 AM »

Offline Edgar

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24646
  • Tommy Points: 445
  • No contaban con mi astucia !!!
14 player 3 team mega blockbuster rumors flying before trade deadlne...
Let me in, I've never seen a 4 team trade in the draft.


Wow this is tough

I am back home

great stuff to be able to be a part

and remember Pandas never stop trading
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!