Author Topic: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings  (Read 590284 times)

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Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #780 on: July 21, 2011, 12:22:50 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Ok, this is THE Walker Wiggle's make good. Offer stands to the rest of my colleagues.

Kyle Lowry/Ramon Sessions
James Harden/F Garcia/M Brooks
Delfino/Derrick Williams/Garcia
STAT/D Williams/Splitter
Bogut/Tolliver/Splitter

Trailblazers Pros: What a great pairing in the front court. Stoudemire is a prodigious scorer from the high post. Bogut is a one of the league’s better low post threats. And although it shouldn’t be understated how awful a defender STAT is, here he has one of the best defensive centers in the league working to cover up his mistakes. In fact, Portland has surround Amar’e with a near pitch-perfect supporting cast. He’s never had so much help defensively. The backcourt will even help rebound the ball. While a deep frontcourt should limit Stoudemire’s minutes at center and overall. Recall that he was mounting an MVP campaign early in 2010-11, before D’Antoni ran him into the ground. (Tender knees.)

Extra credit:  You have to love the Trailblazers aggressiveness. This is a team that will get to the line. Stoudemire ranked 9th in the league last season with 7.7 free throw attempts, Harden finished 42nd, Lowry 80th.

Embarrassment of riches at the wings after today’s two rounds. (Twenty-four team league!) I’m a fan of both Garcia and Marshon Brooks and am only disappointed that there won’t be enough minutes to go around.

After that I’m tempted to lean on terms like flinty and hard-nosed.

(Bows during applause break)

I know, I know. Its awesome. I'd like to thank the academy.

Quote
Trailblazers Cons: A lack of shooting is going to make things harder for the team’s only go to scorer. Lowry in his break-out year hit a career best 37.6% from behind the arc. That still only dragged him up to an average efficiency mark and I’m expecting some regression to the mean. Harden similarly posted average shooting marks, after improving in nearly every regard on his rookie campaign. While Delfino is a passable three point threat, but otherwise a sub-40% shooter who takes too many shots. And as my friends with Knicks season tickets will tell you, lovely jumper or no, you don’t want a frustrated STAT settling for long twos – which he will.

Like the actual Rockets, this all kind of hinges on Lowry. In reality, Scola and Martin are going to do what they do regardless. But Lowry is the only guy who was an elite (yeah I said it) two-way threat last year. All-NBA quality defense and towards the end of the year (after Brooks left) nearly 20ppg, 40% from 3, and 7 assists.

If Lowry has really taken a step forward, I think it all falls into place like 'Dominos, motherlover'.

Harden took a small step back from his 3pt % as a rookie (37.5 to 35), but that's not unusual. I think penciling him in for a modest improvement to 38-39% is not optimistic, its realistic. I also think part of the reason why Harden didn't shoot quite as well from deep this year is because the poor guy's role kept on changing. Some games, he was the primary facilitator for OKC, and some game he was a spot up shooter, and some games he was just the guy in the starting lineup with the coolest beard.

My thinking is that a year of seasoning with an increased minutes and defined role will help him immensely, both as a 3pt shooter but as a scorer in general, as seen during the playoffs when he led everyone not named Nick Collison on the thunder in shooting %.  

I think if Lowry's late season surge was indicator of things to come and not just a ripple in the water, and Harden takes a realistic step forward and continues to grow as a player, Amar'e's (too many 's) long contested 2's will become less of a problem, and we will all be able to sit and enjoy the beauty of his game.

Quote
So I may be in the minority in my willingness to trust rookies, but I’d prefer to see Williams inserted back in to the starting line up. I know Delfino plays winning basketball. But so do Lowry and Harden. Portland needs a more credible second option to prevent teams from crowding the paint.

When I drafted WIlliams we shared a boat, but now, I'm in the other camp. Rookies tend to universally struggle in a few areas, and one of them us is usually defense. In order for Rookies to succeed, you need to ask them to do what they do really well, and not ask them to do too much too soon. In a year or two at the most, Williams will be a starting small forward. An All-Star in 3, at the latest. But until then, he's going to have to earn that honor (barring injury), and in the meantime he can prove his worth by feasting on mismatches at the 3 and 4 in 28 or so minutes a game.

The other thing that concerned me again was Amar'e. Or, more aptly, Bogut. I feel like if you take Amar'e and point at a guy and say "That's your guy. Cover your guy. Don't worry about the other stuff", he'll do just fine. Bogut gives him that latitude against starters. But, if Bogut has to cover to Williams' rookie mistakes AND Amar'e's foibles on a regular basis, he's going to be stretched maybe too thin, and I don't see why I can't have it both ways.

That's why I have Delfino. He doesn't do much but shoot 3's, defend well, and chew bubble gum, and he's about out of bubble gum. With all the offensive threats I have at my disposal, I can deal with a tough minded Delfino at the 3.

Quote
Um, I still owe you another 500 words??

Ah, you're good for it. TP for the great response.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #781 on: July 21, 2011, 12:41:32 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Also, if anyone is willing to match me on word count, I'll extend the same offer to them. Breakdown the PDX 'AwesomeBlazers' in a detailed and not very concise fashion and I'll be more than willing to return the favor by crushing your hopes and dreams with my 'Cons' list.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #782 on: July 21, 2011, 12:58:19 AM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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New Lineup for the Army Ants.

PG - Rajon Rondo / Marcus Thornton
SG - DeShawn Stevenson / Marcus Thornton / Terrence Williams
SF - Richard Jefferson / Reggie Williams / Terrence Williams
PF - DeMarcus Cousins / Tyrus Thomas / Andray Blatche
C  - Andris Biedrins / DeMarcus Cousins / Andray Blatche

Lineup changes defending on opponents.

Wow, that is a powder keg of athleticism, sheer offense and raw feelings. This is the team that will set the internet afire.

The easiest and most obvious improvement would be an honest to god back up point guard. Then again some of our GMs don't feel that strongly about the role. Start Orien's 2009-10 Suns won the championship with Rudy Fernandez as Baron Davis's only help. And anyway that might be entirely too conventional a move for this team.

KABOOM!

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #783 on: July 21, 2011, 01:03:19 AM »

Offline Edgar

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All pandas are for sale



is that legal?


sure its all an open market bass

if the trade is fair

Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

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Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #784 on: July 21, 2011, 01:04:48 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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New Lineup for the Army Ants.

PG - Rajon Rondo / Marcus Thornton
SG - DeShawn Stevenson / Marcus Thornton / Terrence Williams
SF - Richard Jefferson / Reggie Williams / Terrence Williams
PF - DeMarcus Cousins / Tyrus Thomas / Andray Blatche
C  - Andris Biedrins / DeMarcus Cousins / Andray Blatche

Lineup changes defending on opponents.

Wow, that is a powder keg of athleticism, sheer offense and raw feelings. This is the team that will set the internet afire.

The easiest and most obvious improvement would be an honest to god back up point guard. Then again some of our GMs don't feel that strongly about the role. Start Orien's 2009-10 Suns won the championship with Rudy Fernandez as Baron Davis's only help. And anyway that might be entirely too conventional a move for this team.

KABOOM!

That got a chuckle. Is Toni Kukoc still around to run the point or did Who already draft him?

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #785 on: July 21, 2011, 01:06:00 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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New Lineup for the Army Ants.

PG - Rajon Rondo / Marcus Thornton
SG - DeShawn Stevenson / Marcus Thornton / Terrence Williams
SF - Richard Jefferson / Reggie Williams / Terrence Williams
PF - DeMarcus Cousins / Tyrus Thomas / Andray Blatche
C  - Andris Biedrins / DeMarcus Cousins / Andray Blatche

Lineup changes defending on opponents.

Wow, that is a powder keg of athleticism, sheer offense and raw feelings. This is the team that will set the internet afire.

The easiest and most obvious improvement would be an honest to god back up point guard. Then again some of our GMs don't feel that strongly about the role. Start Orien's 2009-10 Suns won the championship with Rudy Fernandez as Baron Davis's only help. And anyway that might be entirely too conventional a move for this team.

KABOOM!

That got a chuckle. Is Toni Kukoc still around to run the point or did Who already draft him?

Marcus Thorton can be the backup PG. He's not that bad at that position.
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #786 on: July 21, 2011, 01:07:37 AM »

Offline Edgar

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The El Salvador CrotorKungFuPandas!
C     Elton Brand     Kwame Brown
P.F.  Andre Kirilenko Antawn Jamison  Nick Collison
S.F.  Wilson Chandler John Salmons Ryan Gomes
S.G.  Monta Ellis   Tracy McGrady
P.G.  Tyreeke Evans  Juan Jose Barea

love it or hate it
i think it works
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #787 on: July 21, 2011, 01:27:34 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Par Exampla:

New York Knicks
PG Deron Williams / Jameer Nelson / Mario Chalmers
SG Jodie Meeks / Wes Johnson
SF Austin Daye
PF David West / DeJuan Blair
C Al Horford / Rony Turiaf / Jonas Valanciunas

Knicks Pros:

Deron Williams has nothing here, if not a balanced offensive attack. Two 40% 3pt shooters on the wings, a capable and well versed pick and roll man with a lethal jumper in David West (picture KG now, but only on offense), and a freakin manchild in Al Horford to roll to the basket to finish and grab offensive rebounds (are you still a man-child at 25? Best to just call him a grown man.)

Considering that Deron Williams is built like a linebacker with the quickness of the Flash and the passing instincts as good as anyone in the NBA, its no surprise that he's made sure 3pt shooters and pick and pop PF's have great stat lines throughout his career. Memhet Okur, Gordon Giricek, Carlos Boozer, they all went on to nice contracts or extensions based on the production Deron Williams gave them by getting them the ball in a place where they could do damage. The situation is no different here, and the entire starting 5 should get significantly better than they have been previous in their careers with Williams passing them the ball.

And the hits don't stop there folks. This team might be (checking imaginary speadsheet I pretend to have)..yes..the ONLY team with 3 starting NBA point guards on its roster. Not a big deal though, because Superintendent Chalmers can easily switch to the 2 and be just as effective. On top of that, they've got great depth at the 4 (DaJuan Blair), 5 (Rony Turiaf, who is on my list for 'Guy best fitted to play 15 minutes at the 5 spot and give the other team fits of shame at how much they don't hustle'), and even the 2, where Wes Johnson could be a significant difference maker, as he won't have to compete with Beasley, Love, and _____ ____ for shot attempts, and can stick to doing what he does and just hit shots and smile crooked.

Another asset that shouldn't be considered next season but should be mentioned is Jonas Valun....Jonas Valen..Jonas Val...well whatever his name is. He's not going to be making an appearance next year, but when he does by all counts he'll be worth waiting for. He should step in as a competent backup immediately, and if the scouting reports are true, he should be good enough to allow Horford to move over to the 4 spot and supplant him in the starting lineup.

Cons:

This team will only go as far as Deron Williams can take them. If Jameer Nelson played the point full-time, this would likely be a lottery team. Deron Williams makes everyone better, and that's fortunate because everyone else on their own isn't all that good. You ever have a buddy in college or highschool who was only tough when there was a gang of other allies around him? That's basically what this team is (excepting Al Horford, who could start for nearly any team in the NBA at the 4 or 5 position and be a win). And, on the defensive side of the ball, I think they're going to feel it the most.

Aside from Horford and Williams, there aren't really any competent or above average defenders in the starting lineup. David West's defense has been criticized for years, and Meeks and Daye are no better (probably worse). Meeks scoring helps the first unit, but his defense hurts it. Philly was better defensively when Meeks was on the bench. Daye, while built in the mold of Jared Jefferies (6'11, paper-thin), doesn't have the latter's defensive accolades in the least. His length will be a problem for some SF's, but the vast majority of them will treat him like a younger little brother in a wrasslin' match and throw him around.

On the bench, Blair has a reputation as a good defender, but much like Glen Davis, his schtick works best when height isn't the main advantage. He needs to keep his man away from the inner circle to be truly effective, and aside from his brute strength offense and rebounding, he doesn't offer many other skills to help out. Consider also that he plays next to the smartest team defender in basketball (Duncan) for most of his minutes, and its not inconceivable to see him be considerably less effective here.

Recommendation:

GC is far from done with this roster. If you have ANY significant depth at the 3 position, he will be PM'ing you with either Jameer Nelson or Mario Chalmers, depending on how good he thinks the player is. That's smart, because his most easily moveable assets are at the PG position. I get the sneaking suspicion that the team he has now is not the team he'll end up with by a longshot.

Ending Synopsis:

The Knicks should be fun to watch offensively. The pieces fit nicely together, the depth is there (except at the 3), and Deron Williams is in my mind, still the best PG in basketball.

Defensively they honestly might be a bit of a trainwreck. Horford can only do so much to compensate for his teams' short falls, and when 3 of the 4 other guys out there with him in the starting 5 are liabilities, that won't be enough.

But, like I said, this team won't be the one that finishes the draft. Right now, I don't see them as a playoff squad. But with a significant solidification at the 3, I think they will probably squeeze in, and rightfully so.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #788 on: July 21, 2011, 01:30:10 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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New Lineup for the Army Ants.

PG - Rajon Rondo / Marcus Thornton
SG - DeShawn Stevenson / Marcus Thornton / Terrence Williams
SF - Richard Jefferson / Reggie Williams / Terrence Williams
PF - DeMarcus Cousins / Tyrus Thomas / Andray Blatche
C  - Andris Biedrins / DeMarcus Cousins / Andray Blatche

Lineup changes defending on opponents.

Wow, that is a powder keg of athleticism, sheer offense and raw feelings. This is the team that will set the internet afire.

The easiest and most obvious improvement would be an honest to god back up point guard. Then again some of our GMs don't feel that strongly about the role. Start Orien's 2009-10 Suns won the championship with Rudy Fernandez as Baron Davis's only help. And anyway that might be entirely too conventional a move for this team.

KABOOM!

That got a chuckle. Is Toni Kukoc still around to run the point or did Who already draft him?

Marcus Thorton can be the backup PG. He's not that bad at that position.

He averages about as many TO's per game as assists. He's a pretty bad option there.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #789 on: July 21, 2011, 01:47:04 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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New Lineup for the Army Ants.

PG - Rajon Rondo / Marcus Thornton
SG - DeShawn Stevenson / Marcus Thornton / Terrence Williams
SF - Richard Jefferson / Reggie Williams / Terrence Williams
PF - DeMarcus Cousins / Tyrus Thomas / Andray Blatche
C  - Andris Biedrins / DeMarcus Cousins / Andray Blatche

Lineup changes defending on opponents.

Wow, that is a powder keg of athleticism, sheer offense and raw feelings. This is the team that will set the internet afire.

The easiest and most obvious improvement would be an honest to god back up point guard. Then again some of our GMs don't feel that strongly about the role. Start Orien's 2009-10 Suns won the championship with Rudy Fernandez as Baron Davis's only help. And anyway that might be entirely too conventional a move for this team.

KABOOM!

That got a chuckle. Is Toni Kukoc still around to run the point or did Who already draft him?

Marcus Thorton can be the backup PG. He's not that bad at that position.

He averages about as many TO's per game as assists. He's a pretty bad option there.

i just traded for Mario Chalmers. I got a backup PG.
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #790 on: July 21, 2011, 01:48:59 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
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New Lineup for the Army Ants.

PG - Rajon Rondo / Marcus Thornton
SG - DeShawn Stevenson / Marcus Thornton / Terrence Williams
SF - Richard Jefferson / Reggie Williams / Terrence Williams
PF - DeMarcus Cousins / Tyrus Thomas / Andray Blatche
C  - Andris Biedrins / DeMarcus Cousins / Andray Blatche

Lineup changes defending on opponents.

Wow, that is a powder keg of athleticism, sheer offense and raw feelings. This is the team that will set the internet afire.

The easiest and most obvious improvement would be an honest to god back up point guard. Then again some of our GMs don't feel that strongly about the role. Start Orien's 2009-10 Suns won the championship with Rudy Fernandez as Baron Davis's only help. And anyway that might be entirely too conventional a move for this team.

KABOOM!

That got a chuckle. Is Toni Kukoc still around to run the point or did Who already draft him?

Marcus Thorton can be the backup PG. He's not that bad at that position.

He averages about as many TO's per game as assists. He's a pretty bad option there.

i just traded for Mario Chalmers. I got a backup PG.

Really smart move. Also a good change of pace PG for Rondo, and a better defensive option than Thornton.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #791 on: July 21, 2011, 01:52:31 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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New Lineup for the Army Ants.

PG - Rajon Rondo / Marcus Thornton
SG - DeShawn Stevenson / Marcus Thornton / Terrence Williams
SF - Richard Jefferson / Reggie Williams / Terrence Williams
PF - DeMarcus Cousins / Tyrus Thomas / Andray Blatche
C  - Andris Biedrins / DeMarcus Cousins / Andray Blatche

Lineup changes defending on opponents.

Wow, that is a powder keg of athleticism, sheer offense and raw feelings. This is the team that will set the internet afire.

The easiest and most obvious improvement would be an honest to god back up point guard. Then again some of our GMs don't feel that strongly about the role. Start Orien's 2009-10 Suns won the championship with Rudy Fernandez as Baron Davis's only help. And anyway that might be entirely too conventional a move for this team.

KABOOM!

That got a chuckle. Is Toni Kukoc still around to run the point or did Who already draft him?

Marcus Thorton can be the backup PG. He's not that bad at that position.

He averages about as many TO's per game as assists. He's a pretty bad option there.

i just traded for Mario Chalmers. I got a backup PG.

Really smart move. Also a good change of pace PG for Rondo, and a better defensive option than Thornton.

But he won't run the offense when he's in. He'll stretch the floor with his 3 shots (although he shoots 35%). Like someone suggested (i forgot I think it's Who), I'll have T-Will run the offense. Dude has handles, can slash and can pass good (didn't even know until i watched youtube highlights).
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #792 on: July 21, 2011, 03:21:39 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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The El Salvador CrotorKungFuPandas!
C     Elton Brand     Kwame Brown
P.F.  Andre Kirilenko Antawn Jamison  Nick Collison
S.F.  Wilson Chandler John Salmons Ryan Gomes
S.G.  Monta Ellis   Tracy McGrady
P.G.  Tyreeke Evans  Juan Jose Barea

love it or hate it
i think it works

That backcourt would be a coach's nightmare, and your front court would be awful defensively.

Not to mention you only have two guys on the roster who I'd want to rely on for 3's on a consistent basis (AK47, T-Mac, and Jamison can shoot from deep but not that well).
Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

"I know you all wanna win, but you gotta do it TOGETHER!"
- Doc Rivers

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #793 on: July 21, 2011, 03:25:09 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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Why James Harden is likely as good as any third option you have next year:

James Harden technically already broke out during the NBA Playoffs. But I believe he will make an even bigger improvement during the upcoming NBA season.

Throughout the second half of the season, Harden was among the game's best bench scorers, and next year he will be thrust into OKC's starting lineup. Thabo Sefolasha proved his offensive inability during the playoffs, and seemingly every time Harden came into the game, he changed the pace of the game.

Harden received tons of exposure during the Playoffs, but he also struggled with his consistency. Some games, Harden would be the floor general, scoring at will off of pick-and-roll actions or finding open teammates for easy layups. However, in others, he would be a non-factor and disappear, often times resulting in an Oklahoma City loss. His jump shot needs to become more consistent from downtown.

Although it will be hard for James to get sufficient touches with Westbrook and Durant already taking most of the shots, Harden proved during the playoffs that he may indeed be a better offensive facilitator than Russell Westbrook, and I believe the coaching staff will take note of this and run more isolation and pick-and-roll plays for Harden.

James Harden is not super quick, but he gets into the lane at will. Not only can he score, but he can create for others at any time. During the next NBA season, James Harden will make great strides and post numbers around 18/5/5.

Yeah, your team and the Sacramento LeBrons are the two best ones by a good margin, if you ask me.

How you ended up with STAT, Bogut, Harden, Derrick Williams, and the very solid and underrated Kyle Lowry is beyond me.  I'd really enjoy seeing your team play.
Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

"I know you all wanna win, but you gotta do it TOGETHER!"
- Doc Rivers

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #794 on: July 21, 2011, 03:29:44 AM »

Offline Edgar

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24646
  • Tommy Points: 445
  • No contaban con mi astucia !!!
The El Salvador CrotorKungFuPandas!
C     Elton Brand     Kwame Brown
P.F.  Andre Kirilenko Antawn Jamison  Nick Collison
S.F.  Wilson Chandler John Salmons Ryan Gomes
S.G.  Monta Ellis   Tracy McGrady
P.G.  Tyreeke Evans  Juan Jose Barea

love it or hate it
i think it works

That backcourt would be a coach's nightmare, and your front court would be awful defensively.

Not to mention you only have two guys on the roster who I'd want to rely on for 3's on a consistent basis (AK47, T-Mac, and Jamison can shoot from deep but not that well).

so you hate it

i think you did it since deron so i am thinking
that has not much to do with my team
how many 3s you need
are you the orlando magic or in my division
lol

p.s, Shaq is probably the best man in the world to handle those kind of things

Collison, brown bad deffensively
lol
thats probably the only thing they can do right
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!