2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings

[indeedproceed]

Who are Denvers transcendent scorers? Johnson just had his worst year in like six years. Must have been pretty content after that fat contract. Do I really have to say anything about Bosh? Neither of those guys D up either. Give me pau and Paul over those two. George hill is a career backup. Is really ready to lead a contender?

Don't forget Nene.

The one named wreckin machine!

[StartOrien]

Who are Denvers transcendent scorers? Johnson just had his worst year in like six years. Must have been pretty content after that fat contract. Do I really have to say anything about Bosh? Neither of those guys D up either. Give me pau and Paul over those two. George hill is a career backup. Is really ready to lead a contender?

Don't forget Nene.

The one named wreckin machine!

Offensively, I don't know if there's a better match for Chris Bosh than Nene

[indeedproceed]

Who are Denvers transcendent scorers? Johnson just had his worst year in like six years. Must have been pretty content after that fat contract. Do I really have to say anything about Bosh? Neither of those guys D up either. Give me pau and Paul over those two. George hill is a career backup. Is really ready to lead a contender?

Don't forget Nene.

The one named wreckin machine!

Offensively, I don't know if there's a better match for Chris Bosh than Nene

You mean Bosh could score at will on Nene, or Nene could score at will on Bosh?

[StartOrien]

Who are Denvers transcendent scorers? Johnson just had his worst year in like six years. Must have been pretty content after that fat contract. Do I really have to say anything about Bosh? Neither of those guys D up either. Give me pau and Paul over those two. George hill is a career backup. Is really ready to lead a contender?

Don't forget Nene.

The one named wreckin machine!

Offensively, I don't know if there's a better match for Chris Bosh than Nene

You mean Bosh could score at will on Nene, or Nene could score at will on Bosh?

Neither, I'm saying Nene's game perfectly compliments Bosh's

[Kwhit10]

Who are Denvers transcendent scorers? Johnson just had his worst year in like six years. Must have been pretty content after that fat contract. Do I really have to say anything about Bosh? Neither of those guys D up either. Give me pau and Paul over those two. George hill is a career backup. Is really ready to lead a contender?

Don't forget Nene.

The one named wreckin machine!

Offensively, I don't know if there's a better match for Chris Bosh than Nene

You mean Bosh could score at will on Nene, or Nene could score at will on Bosh?

Neither, I'm saying Nene's game perfectly compliments Bosh's

So do I, Bosh is good mid range shooter, while Nene is always at the top of FG%.  He is a beast inside.

[StartOrien]

BOOOOOOOOOORRRRIIIIIIIIIIIING

[Kane3387]

As for OKC, the plan is to let Kobe try and get his which will likely be inefficient. And then feast on Lewis in the paint.

im glad you know what the gameplan is already..

Lol all I am saying is that when Kobe get's his shots early, everyone else stands around and watches. I just think the key to your team is letting Kobe and Melo go iso as much as they want. That's all. No hard feelings or ill will being sent to my favorite trade buddy.

[Kane3387]

I've got me over Utah in 4 of the 5 matchups, significantly so a 3 of those. I also like my depth better. That doesn't make your team bad, or lottery bound, but I have mine as better (big surprise, right?

I see amare and gasol as a wash, thats basically a toss up.

Gasol has not outscored Amar'e in a H2H matchup since 2008. Career-wise, Amar'e has also out-rebounded him.

As for miller bs Lowry... Lowry has been a starter for only 1/3 of a season. Miller has been the pg of many playoff teams, has played in big games, and is always cool under pressure. I trust him to make the right play when the pressure is on more then Lowry.

Lowry stared 71 of 75 games last year. Over that time, he averaged 13pts, 7asts, 4rebs, and 37% shooting from 3, 43% FG.

Last year Miller started 81 games, and averaged 13pts, 7asts, 4rebs, on 46% shooting, and no 3pt shooting to speak of, (10.8% on 4 for 37 on the year).

After Aaron Brooks was traded, and he stopped sharing so much time with him, Lowry's minutes jumped to +35 and he averaged 18 pts, 7.6 asts, 4.7 rebs, 45% shooting, 40% from deep, and 88% from the line.

Lowry beats Miller pretty significantly when he gets his minutes.

Bogut has an advantage when healthy but my depth can give him problems and bogut is just never 100%.

If your depth is so significant, why is mine not? Derrick Williams can score on anyone you'll have guarding him, and you don't even have your backup 4 yet. Tiago Splitter is every bit the 7fter Haywood is (as in, they're both 6'10+), and while Haywood is tougher, Splitter is more skilled, and as good a rebounder.

Pierce is a clear cut winner here and there is no one on either of our teams I would rather have the ball in someone's hands more then his.

Okay, but Pierce/Delfino shot the same from deep, they have typically rebounded at the same clip throughout their careers, and Delfino is known almost primarily as a defensive player. He's not better or even in the same league (metaphorically speaking) as Pierce, but he's a good option as a 5th starter.

Harden and Crawford . I like Crawford more. I say Crawford bc he won't start games but he will likely finish them.

Crawford is a useful player in the right system, but Harden is the better player than either him or Young. Better passer (although Crawford has a slightly better assist # but he spends time at the PG, while Harden doesn't), better rebounder, better defender, and shoots slightly better %'s from the field and from 3. Plus, he gets to the line more often.

EDIT: Also, in the last 2 yrs, Harden has been significantly the better player during the playoffs.

Also, if you want to talk about total depth, Sessions is likely to be better than anyone you're going to grab later on in the draft, Williams is more versatile than your supersub Crawford, and Garcia/Jefferson is a wash in my mind, but I could see a slight advantage to Jefferson in a lot of people's minds based on previous bias.

Jefferson's defense took a complete nosedive this season, although his shooting did improve.

TP for the response. I do like your team and appreciate the discussion. Thanks = )

Back at you, I like your team too. Ha, just mine a little more I suppose.

Lol I see where this is going. I'm saving my ammunition for if we meet up in the playoffs. I hope we do! TP

[KCattheStripe]

Atlantic Division:


3. Celtics -- Lacking in shooting, and I'm not sure about how well that backcourt fits together.  Duncan / Monroe / Gibson could work well, but I think this team might lean a bit too heavily on Duncan to score 15-20 points a night.

Lacking in shooting? Holiday shot 37% last year from 3, Gordon 36%,  Deng 35% and James Jones comes off the bench. I also am not sure how this backcourt doesn't fit well together , Gordon is a scorer who may need the ball in his hands a lot, but Holiday has already succeeded in playing along side a player like that in Iggy. As for scoring, if last years averages hold up, I get close to 53 ppg from the wings and point.

Of the 3 players you mentioned, Eric Gordon is the only one I'd expect to be able to rely on for 3's in any volume, and he's very streaky.  Holliday has improved as a shooter, but he's still not reliable, and Deng is a much better mid-range shooter than a 3 point threat.  James Jones is of course a good shooter, but on a good team he shouldn't get many minutes since shoot is all he can do.

The reason I question whether your backcourt can hold together is that you have Stuckey coming off the bench, who likes to have the ball in his hands even more than Holliday and Gordon.  Not to mention that Stuckey will expect to play starter's minutes.

For scoring, I see Gordon and Duncan as the best primary scoring options you have, but at this point in his career Duncan can't really play his best night and night out if he's expected to carry an offensive load.  

Overall, I think your team is pretty good, but I just don't see them being that great offensively, and while I think they'd be pretty solid defensively, I can't imagine how they'd be more than a second tier playoff team.


Here's how I see your scoring working out:


Holliday - 10-12 ppg
Gordon - 18-20 ppg
Deng - 14-15 ppg
Duncan - 10-15 ppg
Monroe - 8-10 ppg

That's 60 - 72 points from your starters a night.  Maybe you could expect a few more points a night from Holliday and Duncan, and you could probably get 10-15 from Stuckey if he played 25+ minutes a night and thrived in that role.  Still, I don't see your team scoring a ton of points unless the bench is really productive.

The myth about Deng being primarily a midrange shooter changed this past year when he shot 333 3s. I also don't know why you expect to see a scoring dip from Deng when he was a third option this past year and scored 17 a game. Also, Holiday put up 14 a game as the 4th option on his team. Last year he shot 159 3s hitting 39% and this year he shot 222 at 37%

[Gainesville Celtic]

The Celtics are ok with these rankings of 3rd in the atlantic as long as everyone understand we'll go bananas in the playoffs.

I'm actually surprised by how many people have Boston in 3rd.  I see you as neck-and-neck with the 76ers for best in the division.

I've stayed out of this thread due to time constraints (and the debates wear me out a bit) but quickly peeked at a couple of posts and saw that we're (NY Knicks) consistently ranked 4th in Atlantic.

This surprises me b/c I think we match up very well vs. the other teams in the atlantic:

NETS -- Kirilenko to chase Durant around, think we're equal/have advantage in other 4 spots (Conley = Jameer; Tyreke > Rip; West = Scola; Horford > Perk)

BOS -- The class of the division IMO; Duncan though isn't who he used to be and  it's a long season?

PHI -- We have frontcourt advantage (Horford/West > KMart/Varejao); PHI has SG/SF advantage (Wade > Tyreke but Evans has size to give Wade some trouble), PG is a wash but  Hinrich looked oooold last year & will have trouble staying with Jameer.

[StartOrien]

The myth about Deng being primarily a midrange shooter changed this past year when he shot 333 3s. I also don't know why you expect to see a scoring dip from Deng when he was a third option this past year and scored 17 a game. Also, Holiday put up 14 a game as the 4th option on his team. Last year he shot 159 3s hitting 39% and this year he shot 222 at 37%

It is bizarre that in this day and age, Deng could be a relatively good 3 point shooter (percentage wise) but shoot the three ball so infrequently. 06-09 he shot .1, .3, and .4 3 balls a game. Even last year, just 1.2 before this year where he really upped it at 4.1 attempts a game.

[indeedproceed]

Atlantic Division:


3. Celtics -- Lacking in shooting, and I'm not sure about how well that backcourt fits together.  Duncan / Monroe / Gibson could work well, but I think this team might lean a bit too heavily on Duncan to score 15-20 points a night.

Lacking in shooting? Holiday shot 37% last year from 3, Gordon 36%,  Deng 35% and James Jones comes off the bench. I also am not sure how this backcourt doesn't fit well together , Gordon is a scorer who may need the ball in his hands a lot, but Holiday has already succeeded in playing along side a player like that in Iggy. As for scoring, if last years averages hold up, I get close to 53 ppg from the wings and point.

Of the 3 players you mentioned, Eric Gordon is the only one I'd expect to be able to rely on for 3's in any volume, and he's very streaky.  Holliday has improved as a shooter, but he's still not reliable, and Deng is a much better mid-range shooter than a 3 point threat.  James Jones is of course a good shooter, but on a good team he shouldn't get many minutes since shoot is all he can do.

The reason I question whether your backcourt can hold together is that you have Stuckey coming off the bench, who likes to have the ball in his hands even more than Holliday and Gordon.  Not to mention that Stuckey will expect to play starter's minutes.

For scoring, I see Gordon and Duncan as the best primary scoring options you have, but at this point in his career Duncan can't really play his best night and night out if he's expected to carry an offensive load.  

Overall, I think your team is pretty good, but I just don't see them being that great offensively, and while I think they'd be pretty solid defensively, I can't imagine how they'd be more than a second tier playoff team.


Here's how I see your scoring working out:


Holliday - 10-12 ppg
Gordon - 18-20 ppg
Deng - 14-15 ppg
Duncan - 10-15 ppg
Monroe - 8-10 ppg

That's 60 - 72 points from your starters a night.  Maybe you could expect a few more points a night from Holliday and Duncan, and you could probably get 10-15 from Stuckey if he played 25+ minutes a night and thrived in that role.  Still, I don't see your team scoring a ton of points unless the bench is really productive.

The myth about Deng being primarily a midrange shooter changed this past year when he shot 333 3s. I also don't know why you expect to see a scoring dip from Deng when he was a third option this past year and scored 17 a game. Also, Holiday put up 14 a game as the 4th option on his team. Last year he shot 159 3s hitting 39% and this year he shot 222 at 37%

I think the scoring will look more like this:

Holiday: 11-13
Gordon: 20-22
Deng: 16-18
Duncan: 12-14
Monroe: 10-12

If you wanna take the middle, that;s 74 pts from your starting 5 and I think that's completely reasonable.

[KCattheStripe]

Atlantic Division:


3. Celtics -- Lacking in shooting, and I'm not sure about how well that backcourt fits together.  Duncan / Monroe / Gibson could work well, but I think this team might lean a bit too heavily on Duncan to score 15-20 points a night.

Lacking in shooting? Holiday shot 37% last year from 3, Gordon 36%,  Deng 35% and James Jones comes off the bench. I also am not sure how this backcourt doesn't fit well together , Gordon is a scorer who may need the ball in his hands a lot, but Holiday has already succeeded in playing along side a player like that in Iggy. As for scoring, if last years averages hold up, I get close to 53 ppg from the wings and point.

Of the 3 players you mentioned, Eric Gordon is the only one I'd expect to be able to rely on for 3's in any volume, and he's very streaky.  Holliday has improved as a shooter, but he's still not reliable, and Deng is a much better mid-range shooter than a 3 point threat.  James Jones is of course a good shooter, but on a good team he shouldn't get many minutes since shoot is all he can do.

The reason I question whether your backcourt can hold together is that you have Stuckey coming off the bench, who likes to have the ball in his hands even more than Holliday and Gordon.  Not to mention that Stuckey will expect to play starter's minutes.

For scoring, I see Gordon and Duncan as the best primary scoring options you have, but at this point in his career Duncan can't really play his best night and night out if he's expected to carry an offensive load.  

Overall, I think your team is pretty good, but I just don't see them being that great offensively, and while I think they'd be pretty solid defensively, I can't imagine how they'd be more than a second tier playoff team.


Here's how I see your scoring working out:


Holliday - 10-12 ppg
Gordon - 18-20 ppg
Deng - 14-15 ppg
Duncan - 10-15 ppg
Monroe - 8-10 ppg

That's 60 - 72 points from your starters a night.  Maybe you could expect a few more points a night from Holliday and Duncan, and you could probably get 10-15 from Stuckey if he played 25+ minutes a night and thrived in that role.  Still, I don't see your team scoring a ton of points unless the bench is really productive.

The myth about Deng being primarily a midrange shooter changed this past year when he shot 333 3s. I also don't know why you expect to see a scoring dip from Deng when he was a third option this past year and scored 17 a game. Also, Holiday put up 14 a game as the 4th option on his team. Last year he shot 159 3s hitting 39% and this year he shot 222 at 37%

I think the scoring will look more like this:

Holiday: 11-13
Gordon: 20-22
Deng: 16-18
Duncan: 12-14
Monroe: 10-12

If you wanna take the middle, that;s 74 pts from your starting 5 and I think that's completely reasonable.

I'd expect a little more from Holiday and Duncan, but other than that I think that's fair.

[Who]

Anybody would like to criticize a rookie GM and watch him freak out?

Atlanta Army Ants

PG - Rajon Rondo / Marcus Thornton
SG - Marcus Thornton / DeShawn Stevenson
SF - Caron Butler / Terrence Williams
PF - "Big" Al Jefferson / Tyrus Thomas
C  - Andris "Beans" Biedrins / Andray "the new Mo" Blatche

I might have said this earlier in thread, but I'm not sure so I'll say it again, if I was the GM of that team I would lineup like so:

PG - Rajon Rondo
SG - DeShawn Stevenson
SF - Caron Butler
PF - Tyrus Thomas
C - Andray Blatche

I would use Big Al as my sixth man and use a three player big man rotation with Ty Thomas, Blatche and Big Al. I would use Stevenson in that part time starter role (16-20mpg) with Marcus Thornton picking up the remainder of those minutes at SG.

I think you still need to acquire a backup small forward to play behind Caron Butler. D.Stevenson is currently your most suited player to filling that hole. He could double up as a part time starter (16-20mpg) and backup SF (12mpg) if you fail to find a suitable candidate for those minutes.

Then you have a choice to make at PG, either try to develop T-Williams there (will not be a popular decision) or acquire a PG with your next pick.

There is still some really good talent available at the PG spot. By far the best talent, deepest pool of talent, remaining on the draft board out of the five positions. I think that would be the best option for your team's success next season. If your goal is more towards the future, then acquire a quality third string PG to play behind T-Will.

I would look for two defensive minded bigs to flesh out your depth chart. Not regular rotation guys. Just someone who can step in and give you 5-10 minutes when your team needs it. Be it for foul trouble, an individual's poor performance (likely Blatche) or team struggling on D and needing a little lift.

So a backup PG (primary backup or third string), a backup SF and two third string defensive bigs.

-----------------------------------------

Back to Blatche, I really like him as a starting C alongside a playmaker like Rondo. A guy with his mobility, hands, ball-handling, jump-shooting and finishing around the basket is going to be very effective playing off of Rondo in the pick and roll. Blatche's athleticism and versatility offensively makes him a much more difficult matchup for opposing teams when he is played at C rather than PF.

Then you have Caron Butler as a second scorer. Rondo is your third option. Stevenson spaces the floor and gives you an extra ball-handler. Tyrus Thomas' job is to play good defense, grab a few boards and offensively to hit a few midrange jump shots + cut to the rim whenever spaces opens up which will be fairly often. Just do what he does best.

Big Al will come into the game to give you one of the best low post scorers in the league. He will do a better job without Rondo than Blatche can because of his refined moves in the post. Big Al is mostly a one-on-one player anyway (gets most of his shots that way vs PG creating them).

Also, Blatche is capable of playing better defense than Big Al. Whether he does or not, is anyone's guess.

And then you have Marcus Thornton to give you a 1-2 punch off the bench that will likely create the best bench scoring unit in this fantasy league. Thornton's scoring ability and jump-shooting will make him a lethal threat alongside Rondo.

M.Thornton is a suspect defender though so I would be more inclined to use him off the bench to give him some easier matchups defensively for at least some of his court time + to put D.Stevenson on the tougher assignments + to place as much defense as possible around Blatche (C) to make that lineup work as well as it could. Rondo, Stevenson and Tyrus give Blatche some quality defensive help and Butler should be serviceable enough.

I would be reluctant to start T-Will because of his lack of shooting (alongside Rondo) + his erratic play offensively in general. I think you are a better unit with D.Stevenson at SG instead of T-Williams.

--------------------------------------

Oh, Biedrins, I knew I was forgetting someone.

I wouldn't play him. Your team is better without him.

[StartOrien]

edit: wrong one