enough with the trade threads....rondos our best player

[GreenEnvy]

trade rondo..

i want us to win anutha ring before the "rebuild"

rondo cant give us that

Debatable. We already won one with him at the helm (granted the Big Three were still in their prime) and came within minutes of him winning a Finals MVP in 2010.

He's not untradeable, but there aren't many people worth trading him for.

[BASS_THUMPER]

trade rondo..

i want us to win anutha ring before the "rebuild"

rondo cant give us that

Debatable. We already won one with him at the helm (granted the Big Three were still in their prime) and came within minutes of him winning a Finals MVP in 2010.

He's not untradeable, but there aren't many people worth trading him for.

eddie house and posey was at the helm..

helm?..lol

this aint star trek..!!

beam me up scotty~

[CelticSooner]

Is Rondo good enough to be your first option on a championship team? I doubt anyone would say yes to that question. I would say that about Chris Paul though.

 You need at least one superstar player to win a championship in this league. While Rondo is a very good player he is not a superstar as of yet. You are basically banking on him continuing to develop over a proven player like Paul.

If Ainge sticks with Rondo the question will be who does he team him with after this season? If Ainge strikes out the C's could very well be looking at mediocrity once again. If you can get Paul and Howard you gotta do it.

[GreenEnvy]

Is Rondo good enough to be your first option on a championship team? I doubt anyone would say yes to that question. I would say that about Chris Paul though.

 You need at least one superstar player to win a championship in this league. While Rondo is a very good player he is not a superstar as of yet. You are basically banking on him continuing to develop over a proven player like Paul.

If Ainge sticks with Rondo the question will be who does he team him with after this season? If Ainge strikes out the C's could very well be looking at mediocrity once again. If you can get Paul and Howard you gotta do it.

That's obvious.

The real question is what if we can only get one (CP3)?

I say do it anyway.

[paulcowens]

Is Rondo good enough to be your first option on a championship team? I doubt anyone would say yes to that question. I would say that about Chris Paul though.

 You need at least one superstar player to win a championship in this league. While Rondo is a very good player he is not a superstar as of yet. You are basically banking on him continuing to develop over a proven player like Paul.

If Ainge sticks with Rondo the question will be who does he team him with after this season? If Ainge strikes out the C's could very well be looking at mediocrity once again. If you can get Paul and Howard you gotta do it.

Wait, you said Rondo needed to be the first option, so we needed Chris Paul, but now you say we need Dwight Howard, so we don't need Chris Paul to be the first option...

Basically, I think you need to rethink your notion of basketball strategy.  Let's take a journey through Celtics and NBA history, looking at some cornerstone players.  Was Bob Cousy the first option?  No.  Was Bill Russell the first option?  No.  Was Dave Cowens the first option?  No.  Was Wes Unseld the first option?  No.  Was Bill Walton the first option?  No.  Was Larry Bird the first option?  Yes.  Was Magic Johnson the first option?  No.  Was Isaiah Thomas the first option?  No.  Was Kevin Garnet the first option when he came to the Cs?  I don't think so.    Etc..

Sometimes cornerstone players are the top scoring options on their teams, often they are not.
A cornerstone player is almost always someone with a vision and passion that transcends what other players have.  It's not something that can be measured.  Rondo has it.  

It's true that he's not quite a superstar, and Paul is.  So keeping Rondo is, to an extent, an act of faith.  But the only thing that is keeping Rondo from that status is consistency.  Improved shooting would enhance his game even more, but consistency is the real key.  So yes, it takes a degree of faith to commit to Rondo being the future of the Celtics.  That's exactly what you need to build a champion.  There has to be a leap of faith in there somewhere.  There has to be a commitment by the team to a player.  It's clear that Rondo should be that player, and that Ainge should take the leap of faith, but if Ainge isn't feeling it, he should trade Rondo and stop screwing around.

We don't need Paul.  We have a great point guard, one that I think is arguably already as good as Paul and could be much better.  A new point guard is precisely what we don't need.  The obsession with trading Rondo is, flatly, ridiculous.

[paulcowens]

Is Rondo good enough to be your first option on a championship team? I doubt anyone would say yes to that question. I would say that about Chris Paul though.

 You need at least one superstar player to win a championship in this league. While Rondo is a very good player he is not a superstar as of yet. You are basically banking on him continuing to develop over a proven player like Paul.

If Ainge sticks with Rondo the question will be who does he team him with after this season? If Ainge strikes out the C's could very well be looking at mediocrity once again. If you can get Paul and Howard you gotta do it.

That's obvious.

The real question is what if we can only get one (CP3)?

I say do it anyway.

No.  It's not obvious.  If we can have Rondo and Howard, I'd prefer that.  If we can have Rondo and other good frontline players, I'd take that.  Not obvious at all.  Basically all you folks are doing is pure fantasy league thinking.  that's all it is.

[BballTim]

Is Rondo good enough to be your first option on a championship team? I doubt anyone would say yes to that question. I would say that about Chris Paul though.

 You need at least one superstar player to win a championship in this league. While Rondo is a very good player he is not a superstar as of yet. You are basically banking on him continuing to develop over a proven player like Paul.

If Ainge sticks with Rondo the question will be who does he team him with after this season? If Ainge strikes out the C's could very well be looking at mediocrity once again. If you can get Paul and Howard you gotta do it.

  If you look at CP3 in 07-08 or 08-09 he was putting up about 22/11 with a PER of 28-30, leading the league in assists, top 5 in MVP voting, 1st team all-nba. Last year he put up 16/10 with a PER of 23.7 and made 3rd team all-nba. The Chris Paul of a few years ago *might* have been good enough to be a first option on a title team, but he wasn't the same player last year.

[PosImpos]

Is Rondo good enough to be your first option on a championship team? I doubt anyone would say yes to that question. I would say that about Chris Paul though.

 You need at least one superstar player to win a championship in this league. While Rondo is a very good player he is not a superstar as of yet. You are basically banking on him continuing to develop over a proven player like Paul.

If Ainge sticks with Rondo the question will be who does he team him with after this season? If Ainge strikes out the C's could very well be looking at mediocrity once again. If you can get Paul and Howard you gotta do it.

  If you look at CP3 in 07-08 or 08-09 he was putting up about 22/11 with a PER of 28-30, leading the league in assists, top 5 in MVP voting, 1st team all-nba. Last year he put up 16/10 with a PER of 23.7 and made 3rd team all-nba. The Chris Paul of a few years ago *might* have been good enough to be a first option on a title team, but he wasn't the same player last year.

Last year he was recovering from a knee injury.  We all saw this past season how large a difference a year made for KG.  We started to see in the first round of the playoffs that Paul is starting to get his mojo back.  In any case, Paul was still a better overall player than Rondo this season even though it was a down year by his standards.

For me, the whole Rondo for CP3 thing is very simple: Rondo is not a legitimate MVP contender now, nor is there good reason to think that he will be one day.  Chris Paul has been an MVP contender in the past, was for portions of this last season, and there is plenty of reason to believe that he can and will be in the future.

Any time you can trade a non-MVP type player for a MVP or possible-MVP type player, you make it happen.

[BballTim]

"Good" is just not good enough to win in the NBA.

The one thing we really need to contend, this year, in ten years, or in any given year, is a true top player, one of the league´s elite. That´s neither Rondo, nor anyone we could realistically get through free agency to pair him up with. It will be even harder if we´re not willing to trade one or all of the big three soon.

  It's worth pointing out that we haven't had anything close to a "true top player" the last few years yet we've been top contenders during that time.

I disagree. KG certainly qualifies as NBA elite during that time, in my opinion.

  An nba elite that didn't come particularly close to even making 3rd team all nba or garner as much as a single 5th place MVP vote in the last two years. How many other of your true top players can say that?

 

I don't know if you are looking at his per game stats or if you actually watched C's games this year, but you're dead wrong.

KG was definitely one of the most impactful players in the league whenever he is on the court last season.

His 'simple rating' was 4th behind D12, LeBron and Wade.

His 'Net +/-' was 4th behind Nash, Pierce, and Dirk.

Just because he doesn't put up gaudy stats anymore doesn't mean he isn't a great player. His net production (own vs opp) was 11th in the league last year, beyond such guys like LeBron, Wade, Howard, Melo, Kobe, Love, Durant, and Rose.

KG had an excellent year, worthy of his All-Star appearance and maybe even serious DPotY consideration (he finished second, but it wasn't as close as it should have been).

  I'm not saying he's terrible, just not a top 2-3 player in the league. His net production was 11th this year, his net production from 2008 would have been top 3. I'm not talking about his stats. I did watch the games, and if you did too I find it hard to believe that you don't see a dropoff between 07-08 KG and 10-11 KG. I don't see how you wouldn't have noticed that he was taking over games in stretches vs Miami but the effort expended affected his play for the rest of the game.

[GreenEnvy]

Is Rondo good enough to be your first option on a championship team? I doubt anyone would say yes to that question. I would say that about Chris Paul though.

 You need at least one superstar player to win a championship in this league. While Rondo is a very good player he is not a superstar as of yet. You are basically banking on him continuing to develop over a proven player like Paul.

If Ainge sticks with Rondo the question will be who does he team him with after this season? If Ainge strikes out the C's could very well be looking at mediocrity once again. If you can get Paul and Howard you gotta do it.

That's obvious.

The real question is what if we can only get one (CP3)?

I say do it anyway.

No.  It's not obvious.  If we can have Rondo and Howard, I'd prefer that.  If we can have Rondo and other good frontline players, I'd take that.  Not obvious at all.  Basically all you folks are doing is pure fantasy league thinking.  that's all it is.

What? Who in their right mind would prefer Rondo + Howard over CP3 + Howard? Nobody is really speculating about the rest of the roster other than what pieces we'd have to give up.

For what reasoning? Prettier alley-oops?

CP3 and Howard would be so nasty. They could actually develop a legit inside-out game if Howard improves his passing. Surround them with shooters like the Big Three, and this team will be near impossible to stop. Everyone gets to play one-on-one otherwise a wide open shot for a knock-down shooter or Dwight dominates the post against single coverage.

I don't know whether it's possible to create either duo in green, but there should be little doubt as to which duo would be greater, regardless of who surrounds them. Defensively, little (if anything) is lost with CP3. Spacing for the other players and especially D12 would increase substantially.

And FT shooting? We'd have 4 starters over 85%.

I fail to see where Rondo has the advantage here.

[BballTim]

Is Rondo good enough to be your first option on a championship team? I doubt anyone would say yes to that question. I would say that about Chris Paul though.

 You need at least one superstar player to win a championship in this league. While Rondo is a very good player he is not a superstar as of yet. You are basically banking on him continuing to develop over a proven player like Paul.

If Ainge sticks with Rondo the question will be who does he team him with after this season? If Ainge strikes out the C's could very well be looking at mediocrity once again. If you can get Paul and Howard you gotta do it.

  If you look at CP3 in 07-08 or 08-09 he was putting up about 22/11 with a PER of 28-30, leading the league in assists, top 5 in MVP voting, 1st team all-nba. Last year he put up 16/10 with a PER of 23.7 and made 3rd team all-nba. The Chris Paul of a few years ago *might* have been good enough to be a first option on a title team, but he wasn't the same player last year.

Last year he was recovering from a knee injury.  We all saw this past season how large a difference a year made for KG.  We started to see in the first round of the playoffs that Paul is starting to get his mojo back.  In any case, Paul was still a better overall player than Rondo this season even though it was a down year by his standards.

For me, the whole Rondo for CP3 thing is very simple: Rondo is not a legitimate MVP contender now, nor is there good reason to think that he will be one day.  Chris Paul has been an MVP contender in the past, was for portions of this last season, and there is plenty of reason to believe that he can and will be in the future.

Any time you can trade a non-MVP type player for a MVP or possible-MVP type player, you make it happen.

  There are questions about how much Chris Paul will recover from his knee injury and whether he'll regain his explosiveness. A year made a difference for KG but his mobility is still limited. I don't think anyone here really has a good idea about whether he'll recover fully or not. And Rondo was, in fact, among the MVP candidates for a good portion of the year. That might be seen as a good reason to think he will be an MVP candidate one day.

[GreenEnvy]

"Good" is just not good enough to win in the NBA.

The one thing we really need to contend, this year, in ten years, or in any given year, is a true top player, one of the league´s elite. That´s neither Rondo, nor anyone we could realistically get through free agency to pair him up with. It will be even harder if we´re not willing to trade one or all of the big three soon.

  It's worth pointing out that we haven't had anything close to a "true top player" the last few years yet we've been top contenders during that time.

I disagree. KG certainly qualifies as NBA elite during that time, in my opinion.

  An nba elite that didn't come particularly close to even making 3rd team all nba or garner as much as a single 5th place MVP vote in the last two years. How many other of your true top players can say that?

 

I don't know if you are looking at his per game stats or if you actually watched C's games this year, but you're dead wrong.

KG was definitely one of the most impactful players in the league whenever he is on the court last season.

His 'simple rating' was 4th behind D12, LeBron and Wade.

His 'Net +/-' was 4th behind Nash, Pierce, and Dirk.

Just because he doesn't put up gaudy stats anymore doesn't mean he isn't a great player. His net production (own vs opp) was 11th in the league last year, beyond such guys like LeBron, Wade, Howard, Melo, Kobe, Love, Durant, and Rose.

KG had an excellent year, worthy of his All-Star appearance and maybe even serious DPotY consideration (he finished second, but it wasn't as close as it should have been).

  I'm not saying he's terrible, just not a top 2-3 player in the league. His net production was 11th this year, his net production from 2008 would have been top 3. I'm not talking about his stats. I did watch the games, and if you did too I find it hard to believe that you don't see a dropoff between 07-08 KG and 10-11 KG. I don't see how you wouldn't have noticed that he was taking over games in stretches vs Miami but the effort expended affected his play for the rest of the game.

I don't think you have to be a top 2-3 player to be a "top player." Because than you are saying some of Rose, Wade, Kobe, Howard, CP3, Durant, etc. are not top players.

Of course there was a difference in KG from 2008. Just like there was from him then from 2004. Age and injuries do that to everyone. Is Kobe the same player he was 4 seasons ago? Is he no longer great?

But the fact is, only Dirk IMO can make a claim as a more productive (and valuable) PF last season.

[CelticSooner]

Is Rondo good enough to be your first option on a championship team? I doubt anyone would say yes to that question. I would say that about Chris Paul though.

 You need at least one superstar player to win a championship in this league. While Rondo is a very good player he is not a superstar as of yet. You are basically banking on him continuing to develop over a proven player like Paul.

If Ainge sticks with Rondo the question will be who does he team him with after this season? If Ainge strikes out the C's could very well be looking at mediocrity once again. If you can get Paul and Howard you gotta do it.

Wait, you said Rondo needed to be the first option, so we needed Chris Paul, but now you say we need Dwight Howard, so we don't need Chris Paul to be the first option...

I think the C's have a better shot at Howard if they already have Paul than Rondo.

I don't think the C's need Howard as much as they need someone like Paul going forward. Gambling on Rondo eventually developing a consistent jump shot is what it comes down to. If Rondo had that he would be the top PG in the league.

It's going to be interesting to see what Ainge's plan is post Big 3 era that's for sure.

[energyking1]

rondo was averaging stockton APG numbers last season before he got injured. he isnt going anywhere.

[energyking1]

oh and he averages a triple double in the playoffs. danny drafted him at 21 and he's top 2 PG in the league. he doesnt even have a max contract.