enough with the trade threads....rondos our best player

[BballTim]

Fact...celts dont reach the finals in 10 and pierce/ray don't have career years in 11 without rondo.

My whole problem with this argument is Pierce and Ray aren't exactly chop liver.  They had no problem scoring in their careers before Rondo was even in the league.  I give a lot more credit to their own talents than I do to Rondo "assisting" them.  Let's face it, if we didn't have 3 guys who scored over 20K points on this team (4 if you count Shaq last year) Rondo's effectiveness would be much more limited.

  The fact that PP and RA could score without problems when they were younger doesn't mean that they still can. They both score less with Rondo on the bench and shoot a lower percentage from the field and on threes. This was true in the regular season and the playoffs.

[cman88]

Greenpride. Did u watch any of the games where robinson was starting or when delonte was in the playoffs? Our offense was horrible..pierce and allen couldn't create offense at all and looked their age and our assist total dropped.

How many of rays 3s were wide open or shot in transiition from rondo? Not to mention pierce? Do you think shaq would've been so effective without rondos perfect passes?

Rondos elevation of his game has masked theaging of the big 3. And I don't think he'd be less effective on another team. Surround him with someone who can finish around the post and shooters and hell still excel...he's a playmaker

[Spilling Green Dye]

Greenpride. Did u watch any of the games where robinson was starting or when delonte was in the playoffs? Our offense was horrible..pierce and allen couldn't create offense at all and looked their age and our assist total dropped.

How many of rays 3s were wide open or shot in transiition from rondo? Not to mention pierce? Do you think shaq would've been so effective without rondos perfect passes?

Rondos elevation of his game has masked theaging of the big 3. And I don't think he'd be less effective on another team. Surround him with someone who can finish around the post and shooters and hell still excel...he's a playmaker

And did you watch the 2nd of the season, or most of the playoff games (pre-elbow injury to Rondo)??  Our offense went through enormously stagnate periods, and Rondo was on the floor.  Or how about the Finals last year when Kobe would guard Rondo from 10 feet away, allowing him to constantly double & rebound at will?? 

I love Rondo, but only think he noticeably makes the offense better for other people when the Celtics are on a fast break.  In a set offense his shooting liability off-sets his terrific skillsets.

[CelticsFanNC]

Fact...celts dont reach the finals in 10 and pierce/ray don't have career years in 11 without rondo.

My whole problem with this argument is Pierce and Ray aren't exactly chop liver.  They had no problem scoring in their careers before Rondo was even in the league.  I give a lot more credit to their own talents than I do to Rondo "assisting" them.  Let's face it, if we didn't have 3 guys who scored over 20K points on this team (4 if you count Shaq last year) Rondo's effectiveness would be much more limited.

  The fact that PP and RA could score without problems when they were younger doesn't mean that they still can. They both score less with Rondo on the bench and shoot a lower percentage from the field and on threes. This was true in the regular season and the playoffs.

   I do think it is Ainge job to explore every single option of bettering this team including trading anyone on the roster including Rondo & Pierce.

  I also agree with the above.  It is quite apparent to me that Rondo at this point in their respective careers is indeed making life much easier for the Big Three both offensively and defensively.  To me it is also quite obvious that none of the Big Three is nearly as capable of creating offense for themselves as they were even in 2007-08 so they need Rondo creating easy shots for them in their sweet spots.  Also his ball pressure helps the Big Three because they aren't forced to defend for quite as long as they would be on each trip up the floor without it.

[Chris]

OK, lets end one thing right here.  There is no need to make sarcastic questions about whether someone watched games or not.  We require respect among the members of the site.  If you do not agree with someone's opinions, state it, and backup your opinion without trying to belittle each other.

[jc3celticsphan]

lol leave it to a rondo thread to get things heated  

[FrDrake]

I agree completely with the OP.  People forget the recent dark days when the Cs would go looking for a PG every single offseason.  Boston used to run out dregs like Bassy Telfair, Kenny Anderson, Milt Palacio, Jiri Welsch, JR Bremer, and Dan Dickau.

The Cs already proven you can win a championship with Rondo as your starting PG.  Plus he's only getting better.

Here's a crazy idea....Instead of thinking of ways to trade away a 25 year old top five PG in the NBA who is a gifted passer and defender, why not keep him and surround him with other good young players?

[jdpapa3]

Greenpride. Did u watch any of the games where robinson was starting

Our team actually played unreal in that stretch where Nate started. We played some weak teams and Shaq was in the lineup, though.

Rondo does make the big 3 look better, but CP3 easily would as well.

For a long-term basis, you have to find a certain type of fit to go alongside Rondo. CP3 leaves your options completely open. He can fit with any good players. Rondo really needs a strong crew of shooting wings for optimal play.

I highly value Rondo and I think other guys around the NBA desire to play with him, as evidenced by the Mayo/Durant comments in the past year. He just can't be the number 1 on a championship team like I think CP3 can be. It's also an issue that taking on Okafor really hurts our ability to improve. All of my conclusions recently end on the fact that we don't know what the new CBA will be.

[Jeff]

some of you are going to really love my next front page post LOL

[BballTim]

Greenpride. Did u watch any of the games where robinson was starting or when delonte was in the playoffs? Our offense was horrible..pierce and allen couldn't create offense at all and looked their age and our assist total dropped.

How many of rays 3s were wide open or shot in transiition from rondo? Not to mention pierce? Do you think shaq would've been so effective without rondos perfect passes?

Rondos elevation of his game has masked theaging of the big 3. And I don't think he'd be less effective on another team. Surround him with someone who can finish around the post and shooters and hell still excel...he's a playmaker

And did you watch the 2nd of the season, or most of the playoff games (pre-elbow injury to Rondo)??  Our offense went through enormously stagnate periods, and Rondo was on the floor.  Or how about the Finals last year when Kobe would guard Rondo from 10 feet away, allowing him to constantly double & rebound at will?? 

  Which teams in the playoffs didn't go through stagant periods on offense?

I love Rondo, but only think he noticeably makes the offense better for other people when the Celtics are on a fast break.  In a set offense his shooting liability off-sets his terrific skillsets.

  This isn't true. Rondo gets a ton of assists in the half court offense. In addition to his passing and vision his ability to force mismatches also helps in the half court.

[FrDrake]

Greenpride. Did u watch any of the games where robinson was starting

Our team actually played unreal in that stretch where Nate started. We played some weak teams and Shaq was in the lineup, though.

Rondo does make the big 3 look better, but CP3 easily would as well.

For a long-term basis, you have to find a certain type of fit to go alongside Rondo. CP3 leaves your options completely open. He can fit with any good players. Rondo really needs a strong crew of shooting wings for optimal play.

I highly value Rondo and I think other guys around the NBA desire to play with him, as evidenced by the Mayo/Durant comments in the past year. He just can't be the number 1 on a championship team like I think CP3 can be. It's also an issue that taking on Okafor really hurts our ability to improve. All of my conclusions recently end on the fact that we don't know what the new CBA will be.

If we are talking long-term investments, CP3 is probably the second most risky investment in the NBA behind Brandon Roy. The dude has NO CARTILAGE in his knees.  He is a microfracture surgery waiting to happen (again.)  In three years he may be finished while Rondo probably has 7-8 more productive years plus he earns less money.  

Rondo is the better investment over CP3

[BballTim]

Greenpride. Did u watch any of the games where robinson was starting

Our team actually played unreal in that stretch where Nate started. We played some weak teams and Shaq was in the lineup, though.

  We played weaker teams and our offense was still markedly worse than it was when Rondo was playing.

For a long-term basis, you have to find a certain type of fit to go alongside Rondo. CP3 leaves your options completely open. He can fit with any good players. Rondo really needs a strong crew of shooting wings for optimal play.

  Rondo would work well with players that can shoot or finish or catch an alley-oop or run the break well. Many nba players would fit the bill. Granted he'd run into problems if you load up your team with non-shooters, butCP3 would as well unless he returns to the one man wrecking crew that he was 3 or so years ago.

[jc3celticsphan]

Fact...celts dont reach the finals in 10 and pierce/ray don't have career years in 11 without rondo.

My whole problem with this argument is Pierce and Ray aren't exactly chop liver.  They had no problem scoring in their careers before Rondo was even in the league.  I give a lot more credit to their own talents than I do to Rondo "assisting" them.  Let's face it, if we didn't have 3 guys who scored over 20K points on this team (4 if you count Shaq last year) Rondo's effectiveness would be much more limited.

  The fact that PP and RA could score without problems when they were younger doesn't mean that they still can. They both score less with Rondo on the bench and shoot a lower percentage from the field and on threes. This was true in the regular season and the playoffs.

see the whole pg thing can be deceptive. If we are talking about assist here. most of rondo's assist come from pierce and ray hitting wide open shots. this is why james jones made it to the 3 point shootout and hes no pierce or ray. Also regardless of rondo or not pierce and ray will fnd a way to score thats why they average 20 ppg. and not every play is a rondo assist. rondo average 10 assist per game is only 10 plays out of an entire game.

the real question is if rondo cant shoot and people back off him to help out.. how does rondo still able to get assist after assist?

i agree he has the luxury of the 3 hall of famers and their high basketball IQ's which they can get some easy buckets and the spacing for rondo to see the floor also helps alot too. But look at steve nash hes not really a scorer and his team isnt great at all but he can rack up tons of assist they are both just great playmakers.

if we had cp3 the same problem we have now will occur, our offense would be alot better. but we simply cant rebound the basketball and dominate the paint

[Casperian]

I agree completely with the OP.  People forget the recent dark days when the Cs would go looking for a PG every single offseason.  Boston used to run out dregs like Bassy Telfair, Kenny Anderson, Milt Palacio, Jiri Welsch, JR Bremer, and Dan Dickau.

The Cs already proven you can win a championship with Rondo as your starting PG.  Plus he's only getting better.

Here's a crazy idea....Instead of thinking of ways to trade away a 25 year old top five PG in the NBA who is a gifted passer and defender, why not keep him and surround him with other good young players?

I will certainly never forget the "dark days", as it was all I had for over 15 years, and it´s exactly why I want Ainge to look into trade options. The C`s weren´t looking for good PG´s during those years, they were looking for good players in general.

And yes, I think it´s a crazy idea because if you don´t trade Rondo, you´ll have to trade one or all of the big three for this young talent you want to put around Rondo, sooner or later (and sooner is certainly more realistic, considering the age of our big three). They won´t sign with us in free agency if all we have to offer is Rondo and Doc.

"Good" is just not good enough to win in the NBA.

The one thing we really need to contend, this year, in ten years, or in any given year, is a true top player, one of the league´s elite. That´s neither Rondo, nor anyone we could realistically get through free agency to pair him up with. It will be even harder if we´re not willing to trade one or all of the big three soon.

On the other hand, I don´t think a package with Rondo as the centerpiece will be enough to trade for any of the top players on non-contenders left. While Rondo is an excellent young PG, a great playmaker with lightning speed, who also has the pedigree with an NBA championship and first-team all defense nominations, he is too unique and special (and with a big, glaring hole in his skill-set) to "sell him above value" to a team looking to get compensation for the loss of their star player.

That´s why I would go even a step further and be willing to trade him not only for a player a la Chris Paul, who could make us instantly better, but simply for "value" and flexibility (Picks), so that when the time comes, and one of the remaining top stars in the league is on the block, we are in the pole position (Draft Picks, expiring contracts of the big three) to get him.

[OsirusCeltics]

Fact...celts dont reach the finals in 10 and pierce/ray don't have career years in 11 without rondo.

My whole problem with this argument is Pierce and Ray aren't exactly chop liver.  They had no problem scoring in their careers before Rondo was even in the league.  I give a lot more credit to their own talents than I do to Rondo "assisting" them.  Let's face it, if we didn't have 3 guys who scored over 20K points on this team (4 if you count Shaq last year) Rondo's effectiveness would be much more limited.

At this stage Rondo is a core piece, but not a go to guy.  You can't build around him, but he can be a solid piece on a winning team.  If a team is willing to give us a go to guy for Rondo you have to consider it.

That 2009 postseason proved everything for me
With KG out, Paul being subpar, and Ray the only of the Big 3 contributing Rondo stepped it up. Had triple-doubles left and right in the Bulls and Magic series. Upped his scoring also, and controlled the tempo

Thats when I felt his greatness. The type of production Rondo can have when the Big 3 eventually retire. He just needs to be a consistent jumpshooter, that's all he needs to work on. Rondo doesn't get that much love