Josh Smith rumor / Atlanta interested?

[jdpapa3]

Howard will draw better ones but it takes a lot to line up for those in season big trades to happen.

That's the thing. Teams will have to give up a lot to get Howard and then it's questionable how attractive that somewhat stripped team will be for Howard to instantly ink an extension. The team that make sense to me from a trade standpoint are the Clippers and Thunder. They could trade attractive pieces and still have enough allure for Dwight to ink on. The Clips trading that lottery pick...man, woulda been another killer asset/player.

[PosImpos]

A gm crazy enough to trade for Gilbert Arenas is a wildcard to make any sensible moves. This rumored amnesty clause has enough traction that Orlando will possibly hold off trading Dwight because they might be under the impression that they can somewhat clear their books for Dwight and CP3 or Deron.

And if you are Orlando, plan A has to be to look around for moves and hope to latch onto for Dwight.

That's probably true.  Orlando certainly hopes they can hold onto Dwight.  But if it's the day of the trade deadline next year and the new CBA hasn't given them enough new measures to ensure they can hold onto Dwight or get something for him if he leaves, and Dwight is still making overtures that he's going to test free agency, the Magic are absolutely going to pull the trigger on any decent deal that gets them young talent and a marketable team moving forward in return for DWight.

[Fafnir]

Howard will draw better ones but it takes a lot to line up for those in season big trades to happen.

That's the thing. Teams will have to give up a lot to get Howard and then it's questionable how attractive that somewhat stripped team will be for Howard to instantly ink an extension. The team that make sense to me from a trade standpoint are the Clippers and Thunder. They could trade attractive pieces and still have enough allure for Dwight to ink on. The Clips trading that lottery pick...man, woulda been another killer asset/player.

Don't they still have Minnesota's unprotected number one pick for this coming draft?

[PosImpos]

Howard will draw better ones but it takes a lot to line up for those in season big trades to happen.

That's the thing. Teams will have to give up a lot to get Howard and then it's questionable how attractive that somewhat stripped team will be for Howard to instantly ink an extension. The team that make sense to me from a trade standpoint are the Clippers and Thunder. They could trade attractive pieces and still have enough allure for Dwight to ink on. The Clips trading that lottery pick...man, woulda been another killer asset/player.

The Nets could put together a somewhat palatable package highlighted by Brook Lopez; getting back a young talented center is probably a high priority for the Magic.  Dwight has said he'd like to go to the Nets.  The Rockets, as always, have plenty of pieces to offer.  The Lakers are one of Dwight's preferred destinations and they could certain put together a package involving Andrew Bynum that the Magic would have a tough time declining. 

Anyway, last season people were saying the Knicks didn't have enough to offer the Nuggets for Carmelo until it happened.  Carmelo wanted out, and he wanted to go to the Knicks, so the deal got figured out.  A deal will get figured out for Dwight.  The only other realistic possibility is that he decides to be loyal and signs an extension.  Either way, the Celtics aren't getting in on that unless they somehow acquire a bunch of young talent between now and February of next year.

[Fafnir]

Anyway, last season people were saying the Knicks didn't have enough to offer the Nuggets for Carmelo

I don't remember this at all. What people said was that New York wasn't going to offer enough to get him because they could just sign him as a FA if Denver didn't blink.

Fortunately James Dolan took care of that for us!

[PosImpos]

Anyway, last season people were saying the Knicks didn't have enough to offer the Nuggets for Carmelo

I don't remember this at all. What people said was that New York wasn't going to offer enough to get him because they could just sign him as a FA if Denver didn't blink.

Fortunately James Dolan took care of that for us!

I remember people saying that the Knicks didn't have nearly as much to offer as other teams (which was true), and the only reason they were really in the mix was because Melo wanted to go there (true).  It didn't matter, because Melo wanted to be a Knick.

Point being, if Howard wants out a deal will get done whether it makes complete sense or not.  The Jazz got a lot less for Deron than they perhaps could have if they had spent a lot of time shopping him around, but they took the Nets' offer and shocked the league because they didn't want to spend months playing a game of chicken with their star player.

[waltham summers]

I'm a bit confused abt where this rumor came from and why ATL would even want to trade Smith or Johnson in-conference. But if the option is there its worth exploring.

The only thing I would say is to be careful how much we would offer - clearly their front office is in a dire financial situation. A package of KG/BBD & a pick is too much...soo is that same package w/ Ray subbed for KG.

By most accounts, KG (even at 35) had a better playoff run than Smith (at least statistically). Also KG went up against Amare & Bosh..Smith didnt have that type of match-up (although he made Boozer look pretty good in rd. 2 before Bosh made him look bad..)

So I would stress caution for the C's and gauge ATL's interest. Something like RAY/BBD for Smith/Crawford would be okay w/ me.

[snively]

Ray, Green and picks for Josh Smith is not enough for Atlanta.  With the younger Jamal Crawford likely available for retention, Joe Johnson a rock at the 2 and Marvin Williams and Kirk Hinrich already on board, they have little reason to be interested in those assets.  Not enough of an improvement to merit the expenditure of an asset like Smith.

Rondo, KG and Pierce would be the only assets they'd consider: each can be reasonably expected to perform at an all-star level next season at a position of need.  Clearly, Rondo should be off the table (Smith's offensive value for the C's would plummet without Rondo). 

KG would intrigue them.  KG's excellence as a floor-spacer, facilitator and 4th option offensively would upgrade Atlanta's offensive capabilities, and his defensive impact would surpass Smith's.  He'd make them a legitimate contender. But KG might only have one season left in him, and he definitely only has one more year under contract.  Would Atlanta be willing to jettison Smith (with Hinrich added for salary purposes) for one year of contention? Probably not, but stranger things have happened.  Ray Allen was traded for Gary Payton in a similar situation.  Would the Celtics do it? Probably not.  It would be a step-back in year 1 and it would jeopardize their cap space in 2012.

A deal the Celtics would never do, but I might consider, is Pierce for Smith. Pierce slides right between JJ and Horford to give Atlanta a powerful all-star triumvirate for probably two or three years.  With a solid big man free agent signing (Dalembert, Humphries, Kenyon Martin), and Zaza, Hinrich and Williams on board as high-level role-players, that's a contending team.  Boston takes a step-back in year 1 (the offense would be devastated with Pierce's departure), but offers perhaps the most enticing possible free agent destination for Howard in 2012 with Smith in place of Pierce on the cap. 

All that being said, Smith is slated to become a free agent in 2013, when Pierce is mostly unguaranteed (and could likely be bought out a la Vince Carter).  If we really want him, we could just be patient and pursue him as a free agent then, without hurting our chances at contention in the short-term. 

[CelticsFanNC]

  As much as I love KG I think I'd have to consider including him in a deal for Josh Smith and I don't really like his game a whole lot at least at this point. 

  I do believe with good coaching to reign him in he could be a player very similar to KG and what, a decade or so younger?

  Ideally you'd keep KG around to tutor him.

[the_Bird]

 As much as I love KG I think I'd have to consider including him in a deal for Josh Smith and I don't really like his game a whole lot at least at this point.  

  I do believe with good coaching to reign him in he could be a player very similar to KG and what, a decade or so younger?

  Ideally you'd keep KG around to tutor him.

I love KG, too...  he's been the heart and soul of this team's defense for four years.

With that said, sure looks like he's the one of the Big 3 who's slowing down the fastest.  Has a few spectacular games, then disappears.  He's got a LOT of miles on him, and it sure looks to me like it's starting to show.

If you could use KG to acquire Josh Smith, I think you do it.  We'd still be a very compelling, competitive team to watch both next season and beyond.  You'd have Rondo running the show, Pierce likely still playing pretty effective ball (he doesn't seem to be slowing down as much as KG), you could re-sign Ray next offseason (ditto).  Lock up Jeff Green long-term this summer.  Spend the MLE to help shore up the C spot.  Re-sign Delonte.  Might get someone like Hinrich (who'd help alleviate the pressure on Ray a lot) in the Josh Smith deal.

You'd be out of the Dwight Howard sweepstakes, but it's entirely realistic (IMHO) that we'd go into 2012-2013 with a lineup of

Rondo/Delonte
Ray/Hinrich
Pierce/Green
Josh Smith
MLE-level Center TBD

...  with guys like Avery Bradley, this year's draft pick, whoever we get with the Clippers pick, maybe giving us some upside.

That may not be a Championship team, but a little luck with a few draft picks or trades, and we're right back in the running.   It's a team that's very competitive yet still young and athletic, and potentially (depending on the 5 spot) very good defensively.

EDIT: I'd say, too, that the only way to realistically clear enough cap space to sign Dwight Howard, would leave the team with basically Rondo, Pierce, Dwight, and a bunch of vet-min guys.  Everybody else of consequence would have to be gone or playing on unrealistically low contracts.  No Ray, no KG, no Jeff Green, not spending the MLE this summer...  bupkis. 

Dwight would be awesome, but there's also a lot of teams that are going to want him who will be able to offer a very compelling mid-season trade package (better than anything we could offer); Orlando won't let him walk for nothing.  I think it's a mistake to not improve the team as best we can NOW, in anticipation of a free agent signing that's about a 5% chance to actually happen.

[Moranis]

what 2012 plan?  sign Dwight Howard?  please.  not happening.

Clear our cap room to sign Wade, Lebron, and Bosh this summer? please. not happening. Not a fan of definite statements in situations that aren't definite.

what evidence have we seen so far to make us think that Dwight Howard to Boston in 2012 is a realistic possibility?  Dwight hasn't even once mentioned that he's interested in coming here, while he has named other places.  we've seen the past couple years what happens when star players make it known to their teams that they are going to leave in free agency; the team finds a trade. 

the celtics dont' have the pieces to compete with the other teams that will want to trade for him.  in 2012, we won't be able to boast that we're a winning team with a championship pedigree anymore, either, since Ray and KG will likely retire.
the only way Dwight Howard ends up here is if he tells Orlando that there's no other team he wants to play for.  no reason so far to think that that will happen.

Why do you assume we'd have to trade for him? With proper cap space the C's can just sign him.

I'll also add that LeBron really didn't send signals about where he'd end up until he was actually a FA, neither did Chris Bosh. Howard is already sending signals that he's going to move on if Orlando doesn't improve the team around him. That's all the signal that the C's need.

I recall reading plenty of reports that Chris Bosh was going to leave Toronto when his contract was up.  Toronto felt it was worth hanging on to him to try and convince him to stay and if not was willing to sign and trade.  They took the risk and it just didn't work, but Toronto knew keeping Bosh was far from a given.

James obviously threw Cleveland for a loop, but had Bosh been willing to go there, James would have stayed put.  James and the Cavs couldn't convince Bosh to go to Cleveland.

You're being silly if you don't think Orlando is going to do anything possible to avoid being the next Cleveland / Toronto.  I think it's very likely that Dwight gets moved sometime before the trade deadline next year, unless the new CBA gives Orlando measures to hold onto him.

But they only get there if they are pretty sure Dwight is going to leave.  Dwight is from Orlando, they don't have state tax, it is a nice place to live, and the ownership group has shown a willingness to make moves to try and improve the team.  There is a pretty good chance Orlando keeps Dwight, but that doesn't happen if they trade him.

[TradeProposalDude]

I am intrigued by Josh Smith. He is a very athletic basketball player with very good shot blocking ability. He has a unique skills set and you have to pay attention to him when he is on the floor.

He also isn't a great shooter, and has been known to come up short in big games (playoff basketball).

I think Atlanta would try to grab one or two of the big three and concurrently offer us Joe Johnson.

I could see a trade of:
Ray Allen + Kevin Garnett for Joe Johnson + Josh Smith.

The Hawks not only clear a lot of salary and therefore gain flexibility, with their lineup as adjusted they would attempt to make a strong title run.

The Celtics, on the other hand, would get younger and more athletic since KG and Allen are in their mid 30s and could realistically decline dramatically in the coming year or two.

It's also possible that Boston could use Jeff Green as trade bait in order to reel in Josh Smith in a potential sign and trade, but I doubt Atlanta does that trade off.

Honestly, besides being athletic and a younger option for the future, I'm not sure if the logistics work to bring in Josh Smith and find a player on the current Celtics roster that would appeal the Hawks contract and personnel wise. I don't doubt that Ainge has had discussions with Atlanta about Josh Smith; Ainge has always been a sucker for sheer talent which Smith possesses a lot of.

[gPowell]

I'd trade ray for him.   
KG starts at center, smith, green, pierce?, rondo
or fill someone into starting sg spot, then a bench group of jermaine, pierce, delonte makes a strong core for second unit

Alright, you honestly think KG's body will last even half a season at Center? No chance we want his knees taking punishment from the biggest guys in the league every night. If another team goes small then sure. But not as a starter.

I think if we trade Ray Allen for Josh Smith we're looking at moving Pierce to the 2 and still bring Smith off the bench. He might play more minutes than KG but there's no room for him AND Green to start.

I am more in favor of starting: Rondo, Pierce, Green, KG and JO and then bringing in Smith at the 4 (or 3) and moving Paul down to 3 and plug in Delonte. So...

Rondo/Bradley
Paul/West
Green/Smith
KG/Smith
Oniel/Draft Choice

[cman88]

I still really dont see any way how trading for Josh smith helps us now OR into the future...

you basically give up this year by trading RA and leaving a BIG hole at the 2 spot...AND give up our ability to sign a max FA in 2012 which puts us out of contention for Howard...and thats with giving up Green, Avery bradley

a core of Rondo/PP/Smith isnt bad...and probably could win 40+ games....but like the hawks we'd be looking at 1st round exits....this is Not a player you want to build around. hes a good peice IF you can get a max free agent.

and Danny needs to take that into account...you trade for him and you are committing to him being your "big FA signing"...and I dont think he's good enough to be it.

we're better off playing out this year and wading into the Free Agent waters and seeing what sort of interest we can get...rather than throwing our eggs in the "Josh Smith" basket

[throwedoff]

no thanks. josh smith is not a complete player

What do you mean by complete?

He Can't shoot but decides to chuck up shots anyway he doesn't follow plays the coaches draw up nd he's a below average ballhandler who thinks he's a guard he's wildly inconsistent too it's some ridiculous trade proposals going on in here did you guys watch atlanta play???