Trade Idea: Rondo to Utah

[BballTim]

I like the idea of including Portland.

Outgoing
Boston        Utah          Portland
Rondo         D.Harris    A.Miller
#25 pick      #3 pick     N.Batum
                                       12" 1st rnd

Incoming
Boston          Utah          Portland
A.Miller         Rondo      D.Harris
N.Batum                         #25 pick 
12" 1st rnd
#3 pick

Utah gets their point guard of the future.

Portland gets a younger point and perimeter scorer to pair with Aldridge.

Boston gets a capable replacement starter.
Nicholas Batum a young, athletic,  and cheap swingman.
#3 Overall to take Kanter for the future and present.
2012 portland 1st which probably range from late teens to early twenties.

I think that's pretty fair all around.

  The reason Boston's getting stuff for the future is because of the dropoff in current talent. If one of the picks turn out to be better than Rondo it's a good trade for the future but it doesn't help us next year.

IMO, If Kanter can play a major role off the bench then the trade would help us immediately.

It gives Danny more to work with while taking away holes in the roster. We downgrade at the point but get youth, athleticism, and potential at positions of need the SF and PF/C. After the trade we'd still have the MLE, LLE, Green and Bradley to use to add more depth to any remaining roster holes if the aim is to still contend. The idea would be we're trading Rondo for more quality depth.

If the plan is to blow it up we'd be in great shape. We'd have Kanter, Batum, Green, Bradley and two(possibly three) first round picks in whats projected to be a very deep 2012 draft. Plus Pierce would be our only big guaranteed contract going into the 2012 offseason. That's a lot of trade chips and a lot of money to spend.

  Yes, if the plan was to blow it up then we'd be in great shape. Aside from that we'd be worse next year.

[EJPLAYA]

Oh God, I long for Rondo to be traded so the endless Trade Rondo talk will STOOOOOOPPPPPPP!

My God, we have a player rare potential like, and so many folks can't find a better way to spend their summer than thinking up ways to trade him.  Yes, Danny might trade him.  Danny is an idjit.  He can surely find someone to rip him off any time he wants to pick up the phone.  But we shouldn't trade him.  We should work VERY HARD with him this summer on improving his shooting.

Rondo is in the league for 5 years now and his (freethrow)shooting hasn't improved one bit. That means that he either didn't put in the time to improve before or he isn't capable of improving. So this makes him either lazy or simply incapable to shoot the three and from the line. Either way he is a PG with fantastic passing abilities, who is a great defender and a decent rebounder. But also one who can't shoot the three or freethrow which makes him pretty one dimensional and pretty "easy" to defend.

  If Rondo was "easy" to defend he wouldn't get anywhere near the assists he does, the Celts wouldn't be one of the best shooting teams in the league and the Celts would never make any noise in the playoffs.

  And Rondo's about as far as you'll get from one dimensional.

Rondo is definitely not ONE dimensional. He does a few things very well. He does however have a huge hole in his game that allows teams to sag so far off him it makes things harder on the rest of them. If Rondo were the offensive player of a couple years ago where he was constantly getting to the rim then I don't think people would be having this discussion. He does seem to be doing that a lot less this past season which allows his defenders to really cheat off him.

As far as the rest of the team, I would argue that if we had a more complete PG like Deron Williams in his place we would be that much better. I'm more concerned about our team with Rondo once the big 3 retire than I am with it now. Rondo is not going to carry a team without 3 hall of famers. I don't think he is enough to attract 2-3 new "recruits" of that same quality in a couple years either. That is why I am all in favor of trading Rondo. If not this year, then after next season for sure.

[BballTim]

Oh God, I long for Rondo to be traded so the endless Trade Rondo talk will STOOOOOOPPPPPPP!

My God, we have a player rare potential like, and so many folks can't find a better way to spend their summer than thinking up ways to trade him.  Yes, Danny might trade him.  Danny is an idjit.  He can surely find someone to rip him off any time he wants to pick up the phone.  But we shouldn't trade him.  We should work VERY HARD with him this summer on improving his shooting.

Rondo is in the league for 5 years now and his (freethrow)shooting hasn't improved one bit. That means that he either didn't put in the time to improve before or he isn't capable of improving. So this makes him either lazy or simply incapable to shoot the three and from the line. Either way he is a PG with fantastic passing abilities, who is a great defender and a decent rebounder. But also one who can't shoot the three or freethrow which makes him pretty one dimensional and pretty "easy" to defend.

  If Rondo was "easy" to defend he wouldn't get anywhere near the assists he does, the Celts wouldn't be one of the best shooting teams in the league and the Celts would never make any noise in the playoffs.

  And Rondo's about as far as you'll get from one dimensional.

Rondo is definitely not ONE dimensional. He does a few things very well. He does however have a huge hole in his game that allows teams to sag so far off him it makes things harder on the rest of them.

  I heard that all last summer and then watched last fall as Rondo made things so "hard" on the rest of the team that he was racking up assists at a historic rate and the team was scoring more efficiently than any other team in the league.

[Chris]

Oh God, I long for Rondo to be traded so the endless Trade Rondo talk will STOOOOOOPPPPPPP!

My God, we have a player rare potential like, and so many folks can't find a better way to spend their summer than thinking up ways to trade him.  Yes, Danny might trade him.  Danny is an idjit.  He can surely find someone to rip him off any time he wants to pick up the phone.  But we shouldn't trade him.  We should work VERY HARD with him this summer on improving his shooting.

Rondo is in the league for 5 years now and his (freethrow)shooting hasn't improved one bit. That means that he either didn't put in the time to improve before or he isn't capable of improving. So this makes him either lazy or simply incapable to shoot the three and from the line. Either way he is a PG with fantastic passing abilities, who is a great defender and a decent rebounder. But also one who can't shoot the three or freethrow which makes him pretty one dimensional and pretty "easy" to defend.

  If Rondo was "easy" to defend he wouldn't get anywhere near the assists he does, the Celts wouldn't be one of the best shooting teams in the league and the Celts would never make any noise in the playoffs.

  And Rondo's about as far as you'll get from one dimensional.

Rondo is definitely not ONE dimensional. He does a few things very well. He does however have a huge hole in his game that allows teams to sag so far off him it makes things harder on the rest of them.

  I heard that all last summer and then watched last fall as Rondo made things so "hard" on the rest of the team that he was racking up assists at a historic rate and the team was scoring more efficiently than any other team in the league.

Yup, and then suddenly as the defenses adjusted to it, those assists started drying up...

[BballTim]

Oh God, I long for Rondo to be traded so the endless Trade Rondo talk will STOOOOOOPPPPPPP!

My God, we have a player rare potential like, and so many folks can't find a better way to spend their summer than thinking up ways to trade him.  Yes, Danny might trade him.  Danny is an idjit.  He can surely find someone to rip him off any time he wants to pick up the phone.  But we shouldn't trade him.  We should work VERY HARD with him this summer on improving his shooting.

Rondo is in the league for 5 years now and his (freethrow)shooting hasn't improved one bit. That means that he either didn't put in the time to improve before or he isn't capable of improving. So this makes him either lazy or simply incapable to shoot the three and from the line. Either way he is a PG with fantastic passing abilities, who is a great defender and a decent rebounder. But also one who can't shoot the three or freethrow which makes him pretty one dimensional and pretty "easy" to defend.

  If Rondo was "easy" to defend he wouldn't get anywhere near the assists he does, the Celts wouldn't be one of the best shooting teams in the league and the Celts would never make any noise in the playoffs.

  And Rondo's about as far as you'll get from one dimensional.

Rondo is definitely not ONE dimensional. He does a few things very well. He does however have a huge hole in his game that allows teams to sag so far off him it makes things harder on the rest of them.

  I heard that all last summer and then watched last fall as Rondo made things so "hard" on the rest of the team that he was racking up assists at a historic rate and the team was scoring more efficiently than any other team in the league.

Yup, and then suddenly as the defenses adjusted to it, those assists started drying up...

  Yes, it was completely unrelated to health issues. Somehow, in the middle of Rondo's *5th* year in the league, opposing coaches suddenly figured out, what, that he doesn't shoot well or often from the outside? That a good way to defend him would be to give him a lot of space on the perimeter? People who draw up plays with crayons would have adjusted much sooner than you seem to think nba coaches did.

  Oh, and those assists dried up to the point that he was averaging 11 a game in the playoffs before he was injured...

[ManUp]

http://www.nba.com/video/games/mavericks/2010/11/09/0021000100_bos_dal_play5.nba/index.html

I've been down on Rondo this year and plays like this are why. I fear what the future looks like for Rondo without capable finishers and shooters. If it's not a layup it's basically a bad shot, a shot the defense is willing to live with. We all knew that Rondo benefited from playing with the big 3, but how much are the big 3 benefiting really?

[EJPLAYA]

Oh God, I long for Rondo to be traded so the endless Trade Rondo talk will STOOOOOOPPPPPPP!

My God, we have a player rare potential like, and so many folks can't find a better way to spend their summer than thinking up ways to trade him.  Yes, Danny might trade him.  Danny is an idjit.  He can surely find someone to rip him off any time he wants to pick up the phone.  But we shouldn't trade him.  We should work VERY HARD with him this summer on improving his shooting.

Rondo is in the league for 5 years now and his (freethrow)shooting hasn't improved one bit. That means that he either didn't put in the time to improve before or he isn't capable of improving. So this makes him either lazy or simply incapable to shoot the three and from the line. Either way he is a PG with fantastic passing abilities, who is a great defender and a decent rebounder. But also one who can't shoot the three or freethrow which makes him pretty one dimensional and pretty "easy" to defend.

  If Rondo was "easy" to defend he wouldn't get anywhere near the assists he does, the Celts wouldn't be one of the best shooting teams in the league and the Celts would never make any noise in the playoffs.

  And Rondo's about as far as you'll get from one dimensional.

Rondo is definitely not ONE dimensional. He does a few things very well. He does however have a huge hole in his game that allows teams to sag so far off him it makes things harder on the rest of them.

  I heard that all last summer and then watched last fall as Rondo made things so "hard" on the rest of the team that he was racking up assists at a historic rate and the team was scoring more efficiently than any other team in the league.

Yup, and then suddenly as the defenses adjusted to it, those assists started drying up...

  Yes, it was completely unrelated to health issues. Somehow, in the middle of Rondo's *5th* year in the league, opposing coaches suddenly figured out, what, that he doesn't shoot well or often from the outside? That a good way to defend him would be to give him a lot of space on the perimeter? People who draw up plays with crayons would have adjusted much sooner than you seem to think nba coaches did.

  Oh, and those assists dried up to the point that he was averaging 11 a game in the playoffs before he was injured...

You're defending the wrong thing though BBAll Tim. I'm not saying Rondo isn't a high level passer. I am saying that a player like Deron Williams is also a high level passer but ALSO an amazing scorer. If he were in that starting position instead of Rondo think how honest the defenses would have to play him and how much more open and efficient that the other guys would be because of it. You can't tell me you honestly believe that DW at the point isnn't going to make us a better team! I would put all my eggs in the chase of DW looking to get him on board and then trade Rondo for a big. We would be a lot better team and have a lot brighted future. Rondo is very good. DW is great. He can do everything at an extremely high level.

[BballTim]

You're defending the wrong thing though BBAll Tim. I'm not saying Rondo isn't a high level passer. I am saying that a player like Deron Williams is also a high level passer but ALSO an amazing scorer. If he were in that starting position instead of Rondo think how honest the defenses would have to play him and how much more open and efficient that the other guys would be because of it. You can't tell me you honestly believe that DW at the point isnn't going to make us a better team! I would put all my eggs in the chase of DW looking to get him on board and then trade Rondo for a big. We would be a lot better team and have a lot brighted future. Rondo is very good. DW is great. He can do everything at an extremely high level.

  He doesn't pass as well as Rondo, defend as well as Rondo or rebound as well as Rondo. He's definitely a great player though. I'd say he's somewhat better than much of what we see from Rondo but isn't as good as what we saw from Rondo before the injuries kicked in  in mid-december. If Chris Paul's knee is healthy going forward then we'd be better with Paul. We'd probably be better with Rose as well although that depends on whether Rondo plays at his early season level or not. I'm not sold on Deron. I think people overestimate the effect Rondo's shooting has on the offense compared to his contributions to the offense. If you just look at their numbers in the playoffs over the last few years Deron probably gets you 4-5 more points a game and 3-4 fewer rebounds, and you downgrade your defense to boot. How much does defenses covering Deron more closely affect the offense compared to how Rondo's passing and running of the offense is an interesting question.

[StartOrien]

There is an 8 point per game difference between Rajon Rondo and Deron Williams in the playoffs.

[BballTim]

There is an 8 point per game difference between Rajon Rondo and Deron Williams in the playoffs.

  True, but Rondo went for 17 a game in 09, 16 a game in 2010 and was averaging 17 a game before he was injured this year, so I'd expect his scoring to be based more on that than his 2008 levels.

[StartOrien]

There is an 8 point per game difference between Rajon Rondo and Deron Williams in the playoffs.

  True, but Rondo went for 17 a game in 09, 16 a game in 2010 and was averaging 17 a game before he was injured this year, so I'd expect his scoring to be based more on that than his 2008 levels.

24.3, 20.2, 21.6, 19.2 per game out of Williams. His last two playoff appearances he had the highest assist per game average.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willide01.html

[BballTim]

There is an 8 point per game difference between Rajon Rondo and Deron Williams in the playoffs.

  True, but Rondo went for 17 a game in 09, 16 a game in 2010 and was averaging 17 a game before he was injured this year, so I'd expect his scoring to be based more on that than his 2008 levels.

24.3, 20.2, 21.6, 19.2 per game out of Williams. His last two playoff appearances he had the highest assist per game average.

  In other words, similar to what my estimate was?

[StartOrien]

There is an 8 point per game difference between Rajon Rondo and Deron Williams in the playoffs.

  True, but Rondo went for 17 a game in 09, 16 a game in 2010 and was averaging 17 a game before he was injured this year, so I'd expect his scoring to be based more on that than his 2008 levels.

24.3, 20.2, 21.6, 19.2 per game out of Williams. His last two playoff appearances he had the highest assist per game average.

  In other words, similar to what my estimate was?

If you want to exclude Deron Williams' best year and Rajon Rondo's two worst years, sure.

[BballTim]

There is an 8 point per game difference between Rajon Rondo and Deron Williams in the playoffs.

  True, but Rondo went for 17 a game in 09, 16 a game in 2010 and was averaging 17 a game before he was injured this year, so I'd expect his scoring to be based more on that than his 2008 levels.

24.3, 20.2, 21.6, 19.2 per game out of Williams. His last two playoff appearances he had the highest assist per game average.

  In other words, similar to what my estimate was?

If you want to exclude Deron Williams' best year and Rajon Rondo's two worst years, sure.

  I didn't exclude Deron's best year. I also didn't exclude this year for Rondo, just the three games he was playing with a dislocated elbow. If you somehow feel that Rondo's scoring in 2008 and his scoring with a dislocated elbow would have a significant impact on what you'd expect from him going forward, I guess we'll agree to disagree.

[StartOrien]

There is an 8 point per game difference between Rajon Rondo and Deron Williams in the playoffs.

  True, but Rondo went for 17 a game in 09, 16 a game in 2010 and was averaging 17 a game before he was injured this year, so I'd expect his scoring to be based more on that than his 2008 levels.

24.3, 20.2, 21.6, 19.2 per game out of Williams. His last two playoff appearances he had the highest assist per game average.

  In other words, similar to what my estimate was?

If you want to exclude Deron Williams' best year and Rajon Rondo's two worst years, sure.

  I didn't exclude Deron's best year. I also didn't exclude this year for Rondo, just the three games he was playing with a dislocated elbow. If you somehow feel that Rondo's scoring in 2008 and his scoring with a dislocated elbow would have a significant impact on what you'd expect from him going forward, I guess we'll agree to disagree.

There's a 7 point per game difference between the two's best scoring playoff. There is a significant gap between the two offensively, and in my opinion a much smaller gap between them defensively (in favor of Rondo).

Deron Williams is a much better player.