Trade Idea: Rondo to Utah

[BballTim]

  Arguing that Williams has been a better passer over his career and is a better passer now are two different things. Deron developed faster than Rondo (unsurprising considering their draft positions) and Rondo was playing with players that control the ball more than anyone on Utah ever did.

Okay, well, I suppose it's easy to cherry pick one year out of the last five to say that Rondo is a better passer. Although, even in this year, Deron averaged nearly 13 assists a game with a GARBAGE Nets team. And even this year, his assists percentage was higher than Rondo's.  And even this year, Utah's offense, which Deron ran for the vast majority of the season, was better than the C's offense.

  Haha. Am I looking at 2008 or something? "Cherry picking" the latest season when we're discussing which player is *currently* better than the other. Hilarious.

  Oh, and the reason Utah's offense was better than the C's offense was the Jazz getting more offensive rebounds. The Celts scored more efficiently than the Jazz, so advantage Rondo.

[soap07]

  Arguing that Williams has been a better passer over his career and is a better passer now are two different things. Deron developed faster than Rondo (unsurprising considering their draft positions) and Rondo was playing with players that control the ball more than anyone on Utah ever did.

Okay, well, I suppose it's easy to cherry pick one year out of the last five to say that Rondo is a better passer. Although, even in this year, Deron averaged nearly 13 assists a game with a GARBAGE Nets team. And even this year, his assists percentage was higher than Rondo's.  And even this year, Utah's offense, which Deron ran for the vast majority of the season, was better than the C's offense.

  Haha. Am I looking at 2008 or something? "Cherry picking" the latest season when we're discussing which player is *currently* better than the other. Hilarious.

  Oh, and the reason Utah's offense was better than the C's offense was the Jazz getting more offensive rebounds. The Celts scored more efficiently than the Jazz, so advantage Rondo.

What part of my post had anything to do with 2008? Did Deron not have a better PER, Win Shares/48, TS%, TOV%, etc. in the most recent season?

Utah also had a much a better offense because its point guard had a 20.6 PER, compared to Rondo having a 17.1 PER. It also had something to do with Rondo having a 24.3 turnover percentage compared to Deron's 18.1. Turnovers actually do play a part in the running of an offense. So does your point guard's ability to score.

Also, Utah had a better offense with a starting line up around its point guard that was quite obviously worse offensively than the Celtics.

But yeah, I guess we can harp on the offensive rebounding.

The Celtics had a 56.1 TS% and Utah's was 54.4 TS%. That's a less than 2% difference in TS%. That extra 1.7%, with four All-Stars playing in the lineup, is because Rondo can run an offense so well, or something.

[BballTim]

 Arguing that Williams has been a better passer over his career and is a better passer now are two different things. Deron developed faster than Rondo (unsurprising considering their draft positions) and Rondo was playing with players that control the ball more than anyone on Utah ever did.

Okay, well, I suppose it's easy to cherry pick one year out of the last five to say that Rondo is a better passer. Although, even in this year, Deron averaged nearly 13 assists a game with a GARBAGE Nets team. And even this year, his assists percentage was higher than Rondo's.  And even this year, Utah's offense, which Deron ran for the vast majority of the season, was better than the C's offense.

  Haha. Am I looking at 2008 or something? "Cherry picking" the latest season when we're discussing which player is *currently* better than the other. Hilarious.

  Oh, and the reason Utah's offense was better than the C's offense was the Jazz getting more offensive rebounds. The Celts scored more efficiently than the Jazz, so advantage Rondo.

What part of my post had anything to do with 2008? Did Deron not have a better PER, Win Shares/48, TS%, TOV%, etc. in the most recent season?

Utah also had a much a better offense because its point guard had a 20.6 PER, compared to Rondo having a 17.1 PER. It also had something to do with Rondo having a 24.3 turnover percentage compared to Deron's 18.1. Turnovers actually do play a part in the running of an offense. So does your point guard's ability to score.

Also, Utah had a better offense with a starting line up around its point guard that was quite obviously worse offensively than the Celtics.

But yeah, I guess we can harp on the offensive rebounding.

The Celtics had a 56.1 TS% and Utah's was 54.4 TS%. That's a less than 2% difference in TS%. That extra 1.7%, with four All-Stars playing in the lineup, is because Rondo can run an offense so well, or something.

  The last part of your post gets to the heart of the matter and basically refutes whatever you're trying to rant about above it. If the Celts and the Jazz had the same offenxive rebounding rate the Celts would have a better offense regardless of your claims of PER and win shares and turnover rate (which is *still* lower for Deron because he shoots more than Rondo, no other reason).

  Deron being a better scorer didn't make the Jazz a better offensive team than the Celts. And if you think it was the all-stars Rondo played with and not Rondo that made the Celts offense good, go ahead and explain why they did so much worse with a huge liability like Rondo on the bench.

[EJPLAYA]

 Arguing that Williams has been a better passer over his career and is a better passer now are two different things. Deron developed faster than Rondo (unsurprising considering their draft positions) and Rondo was playing with players that control the ball more than anyone on Utah ever did.

Okay, well, I suppose it's easy to cherry pick one year out of the last five to say that Rondo is a better passer. Although, even in this year, Deron averaged nearly 13 assists a game with a GARBAGE Nets team. And even this year, his assists percentage was higher than Rondo's.  And even this year, Utah's offense, which Deron ran for the vast majority of the season, was better than the C's offense.

  Haha. Am I looking at 2008 or something? "Cherry picking" the latest season when we're discussing which player is *currently* better than the other. Hilarious.

  Oh, and the reason Utah's offense was better than the C's offense was the Jazz getting more offensive rebounds. The Celts scored more efficiently than the Jazz, so advantage Rondo.

What part of my post had anything to do with 2008? Did Deron not have a better PER, Win Shares/48, TS%, TOV%, etc. in the most recent season?

Utah also had a much a better offense because its point guard had a 20.6 PER, compared to Rondo having a 17.1 PER. It also had something to do with Rondo having a 24.3 turnover percentage compared to Deron's 18.1. Turnovers actually do play a part in the running of an offense. So does your point guard's ability to score.

Also, Utah had a better offense with a starting line up around its point guard that was quite obviously worse offensively than the Celtics.

But yeah, I guess we can harp on the offensive rebounding.

The Celtics had a 56.1 TS% and Utah's was 54.4 TS%. That's a less than 2% difference in TS%. That extra 1.7%, with four All-Stars playing in the lineup, is because Rondo can run an offense so well, or something.

  The last part of your post gets to the heart of the matter and basically refutes whatever you're trying to rant about above it. If the Celts and the Jazz had the same offenxive rebounding rate the Celts would have a better offense regardless of your claims of PER and win shares and turnover rate (which is *still* lower for Deron because he shoots more than Rondo, no other reason).

  Deron being a better scorer didn't make the Jazz a better offensive team than the Celts. And if you think it was the all-stars Rondo played with and not Rondo that made the Celts offense good, go ahead and explain why they did so much worse with a huge liability like Rondo on the bench.

I just don't think it is very accurate to insinuate that Deron's assists wouldn't be higher playing with PP, Ray, and KG. I will give you that they could be a wash though. As far as rebounding, maybe Rondo gets a board or two extra each game because he is wide open out there on the perimeter since no one will guard him, and he collects some long ones that he normally wouldn't. He is a good rebounding guard though. For me I will take a stud scorer who can hit shots and free throws and maybe isn't quite as good a rebounder. I'd about guarantee you that if Danny could trade straight across for DW he would.

[BballTim]

As far as rebounding, maybe Rondo gets a board or two extra each game because he is wide open out there on the perimeter since no one will guard him, and he collects some long ones that he normally wouldn't.

  It honestly amazes me that anyone who has seen more than a couple of Celtics playoff games over the last few years would describe Rondo's rebounding in this manner. The lengths people go to to try and diminish his accomplishments is really something.

  Since 2008 there were 13 playoff games where the pg got more than 10 rebounds. Rondo has 9 of those, and he has 8 of the 9 best rebounding games by pgs in the playoffs over the last 4 years. Deron Williams has managed to get more than 7 rebounds twice in his 44 playoff games, Rondo has 19 such games including 10 games better than Deron's career playoff best. Deron got more than 5 rebounds in 7 of his playoff games, Rondo's done it 31 times. It may appear that Rondo's merely getting a few stray long rebounds because nobody covers him, but that's obviously not the case.