Wait a minute. What? Dirk is all of a sudden a better, all-time, PF than KG?

[scaryjerry]

Well it's a what have you done for me lately world. I could have sworn I saw a is Dirk better than Bird discussion somewhere. Dirk is an amazing offensive player but personally I think KG is the better player because of his dominance on both ends of the floor.

Dirk has averaged over 10 boards for his playoff career

can we stop saying all he does is score? his defense isnt KGs...but KGs offense is worse than dirks D

You are severly under rating KGs offense in 2007-2008 and earlier in his career. After his injury sapped his athleticism it is now fairly ordinary most nights, but before that it was game changing.

Also Dirk gets 10 boards a game in the playoffs because he played a bunch of minutes in the playoffs on a fast paced teams for many years (sometimes even at center) His rebound rate is still sub par, and in the actual game its even worse as he doesn't box out well to prevent offensive boards that he might not have gotten to himself.

If im underrating KGS offense, then youre doing the same with overblowing Dirks bad D

KG cant carry a team offensively, dirk can
KG never carried a team to the finals as lead dog in the west, in his prime with his defense, never happened

Ill honestly take Dirk..KGs all but done and Dirk is playing better than ever, and its always been closer than KG fans would like to admit...just as ive posted look at the career head to head and career accomplishments

Dirk's D is legitimately bad, as is his rebounding. Its been bad his entire career. You're glossing that over and unfairly taring KG's offense as bad, it just isn't.

KGS offense is effecient, but abysmal, the 18 footer is the dumbest shot in basketball, and its his favorite  hes scared of the big shot, has no low post game, his mid post game is all fading away, mechanical and predictable and while his defense was great, its significantly overrated at this point, and his rebounding is currently worse than dirks

If your best offensive player is Kevin Garnett, youll be lucky to make the playoffs despite his great D

[Fafnir]

KGS offense is effecient, but abysmal, and hes scared of the big shot, and while his defense was great, its significantly overrated at this point, and his rebounding is currently worse than dirks

KG was our leading scorer in the 2007-2008 playoffs throughout the entire game and in the fourth quarters. He was also the leading fourth quarter scorer for his wolves teams. KG was never scared to shoot, he just tends to overpass a bit but he does that during the entire game. Its a flaw, but not one of confidence.

Also the fact that you think Dirk is a better rebounder than KG now puzzles me. KG posted a 17.5 Rebound Rate, Dirk posted a 12.0 rebound rate. That's a massive diffence in Garnett's favor.

[Fafnir]

LOL at people comparing the roster in Minnesota for the majority of KG's career to the roster in Dallas. It's a joke.

Who did that, I merely compared the one season they met in the post season and said the teams were fairly similar, which they were.

You're certainly in the minority in thinking those were similar rosters

Perhaps so, but I think most people have their own biases and don't actually look at that particular year with any detail.  Nash and Billups were very similar that year.  Wally pre-injuries was an excellent scorer though not quite the all around player that Finley was that year.  The rest of those rosters were also pretty similar pretty much across the board.

Comparing Wally to Finley is an insult to Finley. That team was probably more Finley's than it was Dirk's. Finley was a far superior player to Wally no matter how you slice it.

Also I don't really get the Nash and Billups being similar that year. Billups didn't even start half the season that year and was playing like 28 minutes a game. What was so similar about them?

Billups had a better Rebound Rate, better Steal Rate, smaller TOV%, better defensive rating, similar offensive rating, and not an all that much worse Assist Rate.  Nash was a better overall offensive player, but Billups was a better overall defensive player and they weren't as close defensively as they were offensively.  Billups and Nash weren't all that dissimilar in 2001-2002.  

Chauncey was also much better after Brandon went down with an injury and was a monster in the playoffs, scoring at will against Nash in that series and totally dominated 2 of the 3 games and holding Nash well below his season averages in all 3 games.  

Of course Dirk outperformed KG pretty much across the board in every category in every game and the Mavs won in 3.  Position by position, the only real difference in that series was the Dirk v. KG matchup.  

I honestly don't rate Billups that highly offensively during those years. He wasn't nearly the offensive facilitator he became in Detroit and then Denver. He did torch Nash with his speed and power however.

Its tough for me to laser in on 3 games when we're talking about career legacies.

[scaryjerry]

KGS offense is effecient, but abysmal, and hes scared of the big shot, and while his defense was great, its significantly overrated at this point, and his rebounding is currently worse than dirks

KG was our leading scorer in the 2007-2008 playoffs throughout the entire game and in the fourth quarters. He was also the leading fourth quarter scorer for his wolves teams. KG was never scared to shoot, he just tends to overpass a bit but he does that during the entire game. Its a flaw, but not one of confidence.

Also the fact that you think Dirk is a better rebounder than KG now puzzles me. KG posted a 17.5 Rebound Rate, Dirk posted a 12.0 rebound rate. That's a massive diffence in Garnett's favor.

KG was great for us that first year...but in the finals, who was the MVP? and who was accused of quitting on his former team? couldnt even get them to the playoffs for 3 straight seasons?

KG always been the better rebounder and did have a bounce back year in that category, but he was always more of a stat padder then grabbing that meaningful impact rebound..but then again most of  his greatest statisical seasons were for loser teams that either lost in the first round or missed the playoffs altogether

I think all time KG possibly did get the edge, but barely, and this past playoff run does give dirk the edge, he also has much more of a prime to play out

Youre all downplaying what Dirk just did and saying "yeah prisoner of the moment"
Well without 2007 completely changing KGS legacy we would look at him alot different too

[Fafnir]

KG always been the better rebounder and did have a bounce back year in that category, but he was always more of a stat padder then grabbing that meaningful impact rebound..but then again most of  his greatest statisical seasons were for loser teams that either lost in the first round or missed the playoffs altogether

So instead of admitting your wrong and moving on you just dismiss rebounding as being important for a PF, instead its stat padding?

As for the Finals, KG easily could have won the award as could have Ray Allen. Pierce won because its a media vote and he was the long time Celtic. Each of our Big 3 had a couple of good games and a couple of really bad ones that Finals.

[scaryjerry]

What Dirk did this past playoff run was better than anything KG has done
And while its "prisoner of the moment" without KG switching teams and teaming up with other great players, hes remember as a great player who got out of the first round one time

[Edgar]

What Dirk did this past playoff run was better than anything KG has done

false


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INZ3hJjW0w4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5-6G183ISQ&feature=relmfu

again the ways KG affected the game Dirk will never will
and thats reciprocal.
Its fair to like one or another

Again No GM will ever pick Dirk over Garnett be4 this year and that includes Cuban, for sure.

Proves not imagination

CUBAN ON KEVIN GARNETT

“We went after KG hard. But – and maybe I shouldn’t say this – dealing with Minnesota was very tough. They didn’t want to trade him but they knew they had to. I guess we’ve been on the other side of that, with guys we had to trade that we didn’t want to trade....

And that player being Dirk. And he was just about to pull the trigger but Puppies ask for something.
Or all Dallas team not named dirk.
Guess who ends up giving the house for KG

So please...


Dallas Fan Thinking at the time

Erick Blasco 329  posted almost 4 years ago 1188597824 7517 Erick
Cuban could have offered Dirk straight up for Garnett


Boston did better. They have Pierce, Allen, Garnett...and only two guys named Moe.

Actually, they’re not named Moe either. It’s Powe...and Po-sey.

[Moranis]

LOL at people comparing the roster in Minnesota for the majority of KG's career to the roster in Dallas. It's a joke.

Who did that, I merely compared the one season they met in the post season and said the teams were fairly similar, which they were.

You're certainly in the minority in thinking those were similar rosters

Perhaps so, but I think most people have their own biases and don't actually look at that particular year with any detail.  Nash and Billups were very similar that year.  Wally pre-injuries was an excellent scorer though not quite the all around player that Finley was that year.  The rest of those rosters were also pretty similar pretty much across the board.

Comparing Wally to Finley is an insult to Finley. That team was probably more Finley's than it was Dirk's. Finley was a far superior player to Wally no matter how you slice it.

Also I don't really get the Nash and Billups being similar that year. Billups didn't even start half the season that year and was playing like 28 minutes a game. What was so similar about them?

Billups had a better Rebound Rate, better Steal Rate, smaller TOV%, better defensive rating, similar offensive rating, and not an all that much worse Assist Rate.  Nash was a better overall offensive player, but Billups was a better overall defensive player and they weren't as close defensively as they were offensively.  Billups and Nash weren't all that dissimilar in 2001-2002.  

Chauncey was also much better after Brandon went down with an injury and was a monster in the playoffs, scoring at will against Nash in that series and totally dominated 2 of the 3 games and holding Nash well below his season averages in all 3 games.  

Of course Dirk outperformed KG pretty much across the board in every category in every game and the Mavs won in 3.  Position by position, the only real difference in that series was the Dirk v. KG matchup.  

I honestly don't rate Billups that highly offensively during those years. He wasn't nearly the offensive facilitator he became in Detroit and then Denver. He did torch Nash with his speed and power however.

Its tough for me to laser in on 3 games when we're talking about career legacies.

I'm not talking about 3 games, I'm talking about the 2001/2002 season, nothing more and nothing less and in that season KG and Dirk had very similar supporting casts, which of course includes the Billups v. Nash comparison.

[Moranis]

What Dirk did this past playoff run was better than anything KG has done

false


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INZ3hJjW0w4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5-6G183ISQ&feature=relmfu

again the ways KG affected the game Dirk will never will
and thats reciprocal.
Its fair to like one or another

Again No GM will ever pick Dirk over Garnett be4 this year and that includes Cuban, for sure.

Proves not imagination

CUBAN ON KEVIN GARNETT

“We went after KG hard. But – and maybe I shouldn’t say this – dealing with Minnesota was very tough. They didn’t want to trade him but they knew they had to. I guess we’ve been on the other side of that, with guys we had to trade that we didn’t want to trade....

And that player being Dirk. And he was just about to pull the trigger but Puppies ask for something.
Or all Dallas team not named dirk.
Guess who ends up giving the house for KG

So please...


Dallas Fan Thinking at the time

Erick Blasco 329  posted almost 4 years ago 1188597824 7517 Erick
Cuban could have offered Dirk straight up for Garnett


Boston did better. They have Pierce, Allen, Garnett...and only two guys named Moe.

Actually, they’re not named Moe either. It’s Powe...and Po-sey.

Um, Dallas was not trading Dirk for KG ever, which is the main reason the trade never happened.  In fact, the trade that was pretty close was Terry, Buckner, Josh Howard, Diop, and Mbenga for Garnett.  Dirk was never going to be traded for Garnett.  You don't trade the reigning MVP for a past his prime PF.  It doesn't ever happen and was never on the table from Dallas' perspective.  Dallas also wanted to hold onto to Devin Harris which made a trade much less likely.

[guava_wrench]

Really? kg was the leader of those Wolves teams and shouldve made them better...he didnt
And how many excuses are there? cant compare him to KG when KG "had no teammates" and cant compare old KG with too many teammates
Just stop.
KG cant stop dirk..the career head to head is about even and they both have league MVPS, now dirk the finals MVP...

Michael Jordan couldn't win in the playoffs until Pippen showed up either, KG's teammates were bad enough most years that no one was getting them very far.

How old was Jordan in those pre-Pippen years? Had he hit his prime yet?

[scaryjerry]

Yeah...Dalls was going to Trade Dirk for KG coming off an MVP year...hahahahahahaha...how dumb is Minnesotta than really?
As someone else said, that was never on the table.
dallas wanted KG to be second fiddle to Dirk in fact.

And yes, Dirks run he just had ending in a championship was better than KGs championship run, and both runs changed how players will be ultimately looked at, so using the "in the moment" stuff doesnt work bc the same happened with KG a few years ago when previous to that he was always losing.
Also its not just "now" people think this...Dirk won his MVP in a year KG couldnt even carry his team to the playoffs, his team was actively looking to move him, and his GM later accusing him of quitting on the Wolves.

[Fafnir]

Really? kg was the leader of those Wolves teams and shouldve made them better...he didnt
And how many excuses are there? cant compare him to KG when KG "had no teammates" and cant compare old KG with too many teammates
Just stop.
KG cant stop dirk..the career head to head is about even and they both have league MVPS, now dirk the finals MVP...

Michael Jordan couldn't win in the playoffs until Pippen showed up either, KG's teammates were bad enough most years that no one was getting them very far.

How old was Jordan in those pre-Pippen years? Had he hit his prime yet?

Nope, it was his first three years in the league, but then again he never played without Pippen after that point either.

[CelticG1]

I'm actually a little shocked that some people are ranking Dirk as the better over all player to KG. So 15 years ago you would rather take Dirk than KG? I just find it baffling.

Has the argument even been brought up prior to 2 days ago?

If your argument is "KG is fading fast and Dirk is going to be dominant for another 3, 4 years" than at least I can understand the argument a bit more. But if you are talking right now, today than I don't think you can make a very strong case

[Moranis]

I'm actually a little shocked that some people are ranking Dirk as the better over all player to KG. So 15 years ago you would rather take Dirk than KG? I just find it baffling.

Has the argument even been brought up prior to 2 days ago?

If your argument is "KG is fading fast and Dirk is going to be dominant for another 3, 4 years" than at least I can understand the argument a bit more. But if you are talking right now, today than I don't think you can make a very strong case

I've long felt KG is a #2 and not a #1 type player.  I've had this discussion on this board in the past.  He just doesn't have that killer instinct, put a team on his back, and get out of the way mentality, which is why he has only had success when he had that sort of player with him (and I'm not talking about championships, but the fact that Minny never got out of the first round and was always right around the 50 win mark, shows what I'm talking about).  KG is a #2, the best #2 in history, but still a #2.  If I had a go to guy, I'd much prefer KG to Dirk, but if I'm taking a guy to be my #1 go to guy, I'd take Dirk and wouldn't give it a second thought.  Dirk is a money player, even the first finals Dirk played pretty well with just two bad games (game 1 which Dallas won, and Game 4 which Dallas lost) and Dirk carried that team to the Finals and they never should have been there. 

[CelticG1]

I'm actually a little shocked that some people are ranking Dirk as the better over all player to KG. So 15 years ago you would rather take Dirk than KG? I just find it baffling.

Has the argument even been brought up prior to 2 days ago?

If your argument is "KG is fading fast and Dirk is going to be dominant for another 3, 4 years" than at least I can understand the argument a bit more. But if you are talking right now, today than I don't think you can make a very strong case

I've long felt KG is a #2 and not a #1 type player.  I've had this discussion on this board in the past.  He just doesn't have that killer instinct, put a team on his back, and get out of the way mentality, which is why he has only had success when he had that sort of player with him (and I'm not talking about championships, but the fact that Minny never got out of the first round and was always right around the 50 win mark, shows what I'm talking about).  KG is a #2, the best #2 in history, but still a #2.  If I had a go to guy, I'd much prefer KG to Dirk, but if I'm taking a guy to be my #1 go to guy, I'd take Dirk and wouldn't give it a second thought.  Dirk is a money player, even the first finals Dirk played pretty well with just two bad games (game 1 which Dallas won, and Game 4 which Dallas lost) and Dirk carried that team to the Finals and they never should have been there. 

Dirk is a better scorer than KG even in his prime. But KG is literally better at everything else