Author Topic: Wait a minute. What? Dirk is all of a sudden a better, all-time, PF than KG?  (Read 26949 times)

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Offline Edgar

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Dirk had a great team with him this year
not superstar but a great balanced team like
Olajuwon rockets
I dont know why people cut the fame on them but all of them
where not only role players but incredible effective basketball
players
thats why both of them became champions even when struggling
the other thing being creat coaching.

Dirk is after this year in the same category, for different reasons. I still think KGs carrer talks for him, not to mention he owns Dirk on constant basis.




Agreed overall except KG owning dirk regulararly? did u miss the recent matchups? or all of them?

Dirks mavs swept KG in there one playoff matchup, and dirk owned KG both scoring and on the boards

also, career head to head

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=nowitdi01&p2=garneke01

So, yeah youre wrong

I am not calling After injury KG
hes old now, get used to that
So yeah i am maybe wrong but I am talking about how nonestadistically useless is Dirk when against KG
I rather watch games
maybe that makes me wrong

Hmmm
Career head to head Dirk has a playoff series sweep where he dominated KG

Career head to head stats are so so close and career head to head win/loss is 17-16 Dirk
But ok

I am never going to take offeensive greatness from Dirk
I love how he does things out there
that series isnt fair KG was playing alone against a TEAM
see wade in this series.

:/
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Offline scaryjerry

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Well it's a what have you done for me lately world. I could have sworn I saw a is Dirk better than Bird discussion somewhere. Dirk is an amazing offensive player but personally I think KG is the better player because of his dominance on both ends of the floor.

Dirk has averaged over 10 boards for his playoff career

can we stop saying all he does is score? his defense isnt KGs...but KGs offense is worse than dirks D

Offline Edgar

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Well it's a what have you done for me lately world. I could have sworn I saw a is Dirk better than Bird discussion somewhere. Dirk is an amazing offensive player but personally I think KG is the better player because of his dominance on both ends of the floor.

Dirk has averaged over 10 boards for his playoff career

can we stop saying all he does is score? his defense isnt KGs...but KGs offense is worse than dirks D

thats why stats arent fair that I am trying to point
Is not that dampier is that of a huuuge help.
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Offline scaryjerry

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Dirk had a great team with him this year
not superstar but a great balanced team like
Olajuwon rockets
I dont know why people cut the fame on them but all of them
where not only role players but incredible effective basketball
players
thats why both of them became champions even when struggling
the other thing being creat coaching.

Dirk is after this year in the same category, for different reasons. I still think KGs carrer talks for him, not to mention he owns Dirk on constant basis.




Agreed overall except KG owning dirk regulararly? did u miss the recent matchups? or all of them?

Dirks mavs swept KG in there one playoff matchup, and dirk owned KG both scoring and on the boards

also, career head to head

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=nowitdi01&p2=garneke01

So, yeah youre wrong

I am not calling After injury KG
hes old now, get used to that
So yeah i am maybe wrong but I am talking about how nonestadistically useless is Dirk when against KG
I rather watch games
maybe that makes me wrong

Hmmm
Career head to head Dirk has a playoff series sweep where he dominated KG

Career head to head stats are so so close and career head to head win/loss is 17-16 Dirk
But ok

I am never going to take offeensive greatness from Dirk
I love how he does things out there
that series isnt fair KG was playing alone against a TEAM
see wade in this series.

:/

Really? kg was the leader of those Wolves teams and shouldve made them better...he didnt
And how many excuses are there? cant compare him to KG when KG "had no teammates" and cant compare old KG with too many teammates
Just stop.
KG cant stop dirk..the career head to head is about even and they both have league MVPS, now dirk the finals MVP...

Offline scaryjerry

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Well it's a what have you done for me lately world. I could have sworn I saw a is Dirk better than Bird discussion somewhere. Dirk is an amazing offensive player but personally I think KG is the better player because of his dominance on both ends of the floor.

Dirk has averaged over 10 boards for his playoff career

can we stop saying all he does is score? his defense isnt KGs...but KGs offense is worse than dirks D

thats why stats arent fair that I am trying to point
Is not that dampier is that of a huuuge help.


If stats arent fair then i guess u can throw out KGs big numbers on losing teams..argument works both ways

The only time KGs numbers were on par/bettter with dirk was on losing teams
Dirks been putting up numbers on 50 + win teams for 11 seasons

KGS game is fit for second fiddle

Offline Fafnir

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Well it's a what have you done for me lately world. I could have sworn I saw a is Dirk better than Bird discussion somewhere. Dirk is an amazing offensive player but personally I think KG is the better player because of his dominance on both ends of the floor.

Dirk has averaged over 10 boards for his playoff career

can we stop saying all he does is score? his defense isnt KGs...but KGs offense is worse than dirks D
You are severly under rating KGs offense in 2007-2008 and earlier in his career. After his injury sapped his athleticism it is now fairly ordinary most nights, but before that it was game changing.

Also Dirk gets 10 boards a game in the playoffs because he played a bunch of minutes in the playoffs on a fast paced teams for many years (sometimes even at center) His rebound rate is still sub par, and in the actual game its even worse as he doesn't box out well to prevent offensive boards that he might not have gotten to himself.

Offline Fafnir

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Really? kg was the leader of those Wolves teams and shouldve made them better...he didnt
And how many excuses are there? cant compare him to KG when KG "had no teammates" and cant compare old KG with too many teammates
Just stop.
KG cant stop dirk..the career head to head is about even and they both have league MVPS, now dirk the finals MVP...
Michael Jordan couldn't win in the playoffs until Pippen showed up either, KG's teammates were bad enough most years that no one was getting them very far.

Offline scaryjerry

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Well it's a what have you done for me lately world. I could have sworn I saw a is Dirk better than Bird discussion somewhere. Dirk is an amazing offensive player but personally I think KG is the better player because of his dominance on both ends of the floor.

Dirk has averaged over 10 boards for his playoff career

can we stop saying all he does is score? his defense isnt KGs...but KGs offense is worse than dirks D
You are severly under rating KGs offense in 2007-2008 and earlier in his career. After his injury sapped his athleticism it is now fairly ordinary most nights, but before that it was game changing.

Also Dirk gets 10 boards a game in the playoffs because he played a bunch of minutes in the playoffs on a fast paced teams for many years (sometimes even at center) His rebound rate is still sub par, and in the actual game its even worse as he doesn't box out well to prevent offensive boards that he might not have gotten to himself.

If im underrating KGS offense, then youre doing the same with overblowing Dirks bad D

KG cant carry a team offensively, dirk can
KG never carried a team to the finals as lead dog in the west, in his prime with his defense, never happened

Ill honestly take Dirk..KGs all but done and Dirk is playing better than ever, and its always been closer than KG fans would like to admit...just as ive posted look at the career head to head and career accomplishments

Offline scaryjerry

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Really? kg was the leader of those Wolves teams and shouldve made them better...he didnt
And how many excuses are there? cant compare him to KG when KG "had no teammates" and cant compare old KG with too many teammates
Just stop.
KG cant stop dirk..the career head to head is about even and they both have league MVPS, now dirk the finals MVP...
Michael Jordan couldn't win in the playoffs until Pippen showed up either, KG's teammates were bad enough most years that no one was getting them very far.

Tired excuse

KG doesnt get the 2006 mavericks out of the first round...nevermind beating the defending champ spurs on there homecourt in a game 7 and taking a bunch of glorified scrubs to the finals

Theres no excuse legit enough for KG to have made it out of the first round one time in all those years...Pierce n Ray both did more
and its fact...dirk did more and has done more than any of our big 3 as lead dog...bc hes simply a cut above

Offline Edgar

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I am just calling effect in the game
(and believe me i watch more than sanity allows)
says KGs effect on games is (has been) till before injury
better and bigger than Dirks
I dont see why i should stop If my point is clear.
 ???
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Offline Edgar

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Ill honestly take Dirk..KGs all but done and Dirk is playing better than ever, and its always been closer than KG fans would like to admit...just as ive posted look at the career head to head and career accomplishments

 ::)
nahhh

but of course anyone will pick Dirk over KG right now.
one year ago and through their carrers Nobody

Nobody, no GM even cuban believe me
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Offline scaryjerry

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Ill honestly take Dirk..KGs all but done and Dirk is playing better than ever, and its always been closer than KG fans would like to admit...just as ive posted look at the career head to head and career accomplishments

 ::)
nahhh

but of course anyone will pick Dirk over KG right now.
one year ago and through their carrers Nobody

Nobody, no GM even cuban believe me

Personally nah, Its not just "now"

what is with the myth that KG is signicalty better and dominated head to head? completely false

Dirk won league MVP when KG couldnt even get a team to the playoffs... so its not just "now"

Offline Moranis

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LOL at people comparing the roster in Minnesota for the majority of KG's career to the roster in Dallas. It's a joke.
Who did that, I merely compared the one season they met in the post season and said the teams were fairly similar, which they were.

You're certainly in the minority in thinking those were similar rosters
Perhaps so, but I think most people have their own biases and don't actually look at that particular year with any detail.  Nash and Billups were very similar that year.  Wally pre-injuries was an excellent scorer though not quite the all around player that Finley was that year.  The rest of those rosters were also pretty similar pretty much across the board.

Comparing Wally to Finley is an insult to Finley. That team was probably more Finley's than it was Dirk's. Finley was a far superior player to Wally no matter how you slice it.

Also I don't really get the Nash and Billups being similar that year. Billups didn't even start half the season that year and was playing like 28 minutes a game. What was so similar about them?
Billups had a better Rebound Rate, better Steal Rate, smaller TOV%, better defensive rating, similar offensive rating, and not an all that much worse Assist Rate.  Nash was a better overall offensive player, but Billups was a better overall defensive player and they weren't as close defensively as they were offensively.  Billups and Nash weren't all that dissimilar in 2001-2002.  

Chauncey was also much better after Brandon went down with an injury and was a monster in the playoffs, scoring at will against Nash in that series and totally dominated 2 of the 3 games and holding Nash well below his season averages in all 3 games.  

Of course Dirk outperformed KG pretty much across the board in every category in every game and the Mavs won in 3.  Position by position, the only real difference in that series was the Dirk v. KG matchup.  
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Offline scaryjerry

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I am just calling effect in the game
(and believe me i watch more than sanity allows)
says KGs effect on games is (has been) till before injury
better and bigger than Dirks
I dont see why i should stop If my point is clear.
 ???
[/quote

KG is everybodys binky clearly

He doesnt effect the game more than dirk...hes a better defender yes

Offline Fafnir

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Well it's a what have you done for me lately world. I could have sworn I saw a is Dirk better than Bird discussion somewhere. Dirk is an amazing offensive player but personally I think KG is the better player because of his dominance on both ends of the floor.

Dirk has averaged over 10 boards for his playoff career

can we stop saying all he does is score? his defense isnt KGs...but KGs offense is worse than dirks D
You are severly under rating KGs offense in 2007-2008 and earlier in his career. After his injury sapped his athleticism it is now fairly ordinary most nights, but before that it was game changing.

Also Dirk gets 10 boards a game in the playoffs because he played a bunch of minutes in the playoffs on a fast paced teams for many years (sometimes even at center) His rebound rate is still sub par, and in the actual game its even worse as he doesn't box out well to prevent offensive boards that he might not have gotten to himself.

If im underrating KGS offense, then youre doing the same with overblowing Dirks bad D

KG cant carry a team offensively, dirk can
KG never carried a team to the finals as lead dog in the west, in his prime with his defense, never happened

Ill honestly take Dirk..KGs all but done and Dirk is playing better than ever, and its always been closer than KG fans would like to admit...just as ive posted look at the career head to head and career accomplishments
Dirk's D is legitimately bad, as is his rebounding. Its been bad his entire career. You're glossing that over and unfairly taring KG's offense as bad, it just isn't.