Wait a minute. What? Dirk is all of a sudden a better, all-time, PF than KG?

[RebusRankin]

Maybe KG came up short a couple times but for the most part it was against teams where they were completely out matched

except that isn't entirely true.  Seattle wasn't a better team and KG was by far the best player in that series in 97/98.  99/00 KG was horrible in the playoff loss to Portland.  Brandon was the best player for the Wolves that post season and it wasn't close.  Aside from Duncan and a very old Robinson, the Spurs were a fairly poor team in 00/01, yet easily beat KG's wolves.  Dallas in 01/02, which I described above, wasn't better then Minnesota.  The Wolves with KG, Spree, Cassell, and Wally didn't even make the playoffs in 04/05.  The Wolves weren't enough close to the playoffs the next two seasons with KG still very much in his prime.  An all time great player should never miss the post season for three consecutive seasons in his prime.  It just shouldn't happen, yet it did with KG.  And that is with just two post season series victories in his first 8 playoffs, including 7 straight seasons without a series victory.

KG is not a #1.  He is perhaps the best #2 ever, but he just doesn't have what it takes to be a #1 player, which is more then evident by looking at his career.  

Seattle in 1997/98 won 60 games, had an in their primes Payton and Baker, plus Sam Perkins, Detlef Schrempf and Nate McMillan. Minnesota had KG and Marbury (Googs was out). Seattle was the better team.

99/2000 18.8, 8.8, 10.8 is awful? Oh and the supposedly superior Brandon put up 19.5 and 8.5.

01/02 Finley, Nash, Van Exel and Jawan Howard is = to WallyWorld, Billups, Rasho and Peeler?

[CelticsPrideKG]

Game 7 WSF, KG has 32pts, 21reb, 5b, 5stls, yep couldn't carry a team.

Do you want to tell me that KG was Stackhouse, Dampier, Harris, Howard and Finley doesn't make the Finals? Please. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1VtZht_8t4&feature=related

Anybody who didn't see the game should check out those highlights.  It's still one of the most dominant performances I have ever seen.  I really wish Boston could have seen KG in these earlier years - I don't really think there would be an argument - and I love Dirk.

[CelticsPrideKG]

LOL at people comparing the roster in Minnesota for the majority of KG's career to the roster in Dallas. It's a joke.

You can blame KG's contract or whatever else you want.  The unfortunate fact is that KG's career was pretty much ruined in Minnesota by Glen Taylor trying to pay Joe ****ing Smith under the table and getting caught.  The resulting loss of draft picks for years and years made it really difficult for Minnesota.  Even in KG's best years he had Michael Olowokandi and Trenton Hassell in the starting line-up.

[Moranis]

Maybe KG came up short a couple times but for the most part it was against teams where they were completely out matched

except that isn't entirely true.  Seattle wasn't a better team and KG was by far the best player in that series in 97/98.  99/00 KG was horrible in the playoff loss to Portland.  Brandon was the best player for the Wolves that post season and it wasn't close.  Aside from Duncan and a very old Robinson, the Spurs were a fairly poor team in 00/01, yet easily beat KG's wolves.  Dallas in 01/02, which I described above, wasn't better then Minnesota.  The Wolves with KG, Spree, Cassell, and Wally didn't even make the playoffs in 04/05.  The Wolves weren't enough close to the playoffs the next two seasons with KG still very much in his prime.  An all time great player should never miss the post season for three consecutive seasons in his prime.  It just shouldn't happen, yet it did with KG.  And that is with just two post season series victories in his first 8 playoffs, including 7 straight seasons without a series victory.

KG is not a #1.  He is perhaps the best #2 ever, but he just doesn't have what it takes to be a #1 player, which is more then evident by looking at his career.  

Seattle in 1997/98 won 60 games, had an in their primes Payton and Baker, plus Sam Perkins, Detlef Schrempf and Nate McMillan. Minnesota had KG and Marbury (Googs was out). Seattle was the better team.

99/2000 18.8, 8.8, 10.8 is awful? Oh and the supposedly superior Brandon put up 19.5 and 8.5.

01/02 Finley, Nash, Van Exel and Jawan Howard is = to WallyWorld, Billups, Rasho and Peeler?

Maybe Seattle won 60 games because Payton was a killer and didn't slack off during the season.  KG's team never won a lot of games because he wasn't a #1.  McMillan was a bit player at best that year as he didn't even play in 30% of Seattle's playoff games.  Detlef and Perkins were dinosaurs.  The difference in that series was really Payton and Baker v. KG and Marbury and Seattle won both matchups (though Marbury was downright atrocious that post season).

It is awful when you shoot 38.5% and shy away from the crunch time shots.

Howard wasn't on the 01/02 Dallas team that played in the post season (he was traded mid season for Van Exel and Lafrentz).  Finley was very good that year no doubt, but Nash back then was nothing like what he became in Phoenix. Billups (even back then) was every bit the player Nash was.  Wally, while not quite as good as Finley, wasn't exactly a slouch and was an excellent scorer (this was before his injuries).  Rasho and Raef were fairly similar.  Peeler was every bit the player Van Exel was during that season (Peeler was a superb shooter and excellent defender).  And that doesn't count Joe Smith who was still very much in his prime then at age 26.  The reason the Mavs swept that series is Dirk v. KG, which Dirk won.  

[Moranis]

LOL at people comparing the roster in Minnesota for the majority of KG's career to the roster in Dallas. It's a joke.

Who did that, I merely compared the one season they met in the post season and said the teams were fairly similar, which they were.

[MBz]

He's not better than KG, but he's in the conversation for top 5 PF of this generation.   Remember,after 2008, Pierce's legacy was raised quite a bit even though he didn't belong in the all-time great discussion.

[CelticG1]

Maybe KG came up short a couple times but for the most part it was against teams where they were completely out matched

except that isn't entirely true.  Seattle wasn't a better team and KG was by far the best player in that series in 97/98.  99/00 KG was horrible in the playoff loss to Portland.  Brandon was the best player for the Wolves that post season and it wasn't close.  Aside from Duncan and a very old Robinson, the Spurs were a fairly poor team in 00/01, yet easily beat KG's wolves.  Dallas in 01/02, which I described above, wasn't better then Minnesota.  The Wolves with KG, Spree, Cassell, and Wally didn't even make the playoffs in 04/05.  The Wolves weren't enough close to the playoffs the next two seasons with KG still very much in his prime.  An all time great player should never miss the post season for three consecutive seasons in his prime.  It just shouldn't happen, yet it did with KG.  And that is with just two post season series victories in his first 8 playoffs, including 7 straight seasons without a series victory.

KG is not a #1.  He is perhaps the best #2 ever, but he just doesn't have what it takes to be a #1 player, which is more then evident by looking at his career.  

Seattle in 1997/98 won 60 games, had an in their primes Payton and Baker, plus Sam Perkins, Detlef Schrempf and Nate McMillan. Minnesota had KG and Marbury (Googs was out). Seattle was the better team.

99/2000 18.8, 8.8, 10.8 is awful? Oh and the supposedly superior Brandon put up 19.5 and 8.5.

01/02 Finley, Nash, Van Exel and Jawan Howard is = to WallyWorld, Billups, Rasho and Peeler?

Yeah I really don't get the argument at all either. First of all KG against the Sonics that year he was like 21 or 22 years old. He hadn't even entered his prime yet at that point just his 3rd season in the league coming out of high school.

Dirk has had more talent on his teams, had higher seeds, Homecourt advantage several times, had 2-0 series leads, had the most generous owner spending the most money and basically getting whatever they wanted for Dirk.

Looking at the whole body of work I don't see how anyone would pick Dirk's career over KG's. I just find it mind boggling.

[CelticG1]

LOL at people comparing the roster in Minnesota for the majority of KG's career to the roster in Dallas. It's a joke.

Who did that, I merely compared the one season they met in the post season and said the teams were fairly similar, which they were.

You're certainly in the minority in thinking those were similar rosters

[wdleehi]

He's not better than KG, but he's in the conversation for top 5 PF of this generation.   Remember,after 2008, Pierce's legacy was raised quite a bit even though he didn't belong in the all-time great discussion.

He is close.


I still have him behind

Duncan
Mchale
KG
Barkley
Malone


About 6th. 

[Moranis]

LOL at people comparing the roster in Minnesota for the majority of KG's career to the roster in Dallas. It's a joke.

Who did that, I merely compared the one season they met in the post season and said the teams were fairly similar, which they were.

You're certainly in the minority in thinking those were similar rosters

Perhaps so, but I think most people have their own biases and don't actually look at that particular year with any detail.  Nash and Billups were very similar that year.  Wally pre-injuries was an excellent scorer though not quite the all around player that Finley was that year.  The rest of those rosters were also pretty similar pretty much across the board.

[RebusRankin]

Nash was better than Billups that year. Finley was better than Wally. Van Exel was better than Peeler.

[CelticG1]

LOL at people comparing the roster in Minnesota for the majority of KG's career to the roster in Dallas. It's a joke.

Who did that, I merely compared the one season they met in the post season and said the teams were fairly similar, which they were.

You're certainly in the minority in thinking those were similar rosters

Perhaps so, but I think most people have their own biases and don't actually look at that particular year with any detail.  Nash and Billups were very similar that year.  Wally pre-injuries was an excellent scorer though not quite the all around player that Finley was that year.  The rest of those rosters were also pretty similar pretty much across the board.

Comparing Wally to Finley is an insult to Finley. That team was probably more Finley's than it was Dirk's. Finley was a far superior player to Wally no matter how you slice it.

Also I don't really get the Nash and Billups being similar that year. Billups didn't even start half the season that year and was playing like 28 minutes a game. What was so similar about them?

[Mr October]

He's not better than KG, but he's in the conversation for top 5 PF of this generation.   Remember,after 2008, Pierce's legacy was raised quite a bit even though he didn't belong in the all-time great discussion.

He is close.


I still have him behind

Duncan
Mchale
KG
Barkley
Malone


About 6th. 

This order looks spot on.

[RebusRankin]

Perhaps Moranis doesn't want to realize he's wrong?

[CelticG1]

He's not better than KG, but he's in the conversation for top 5 PF of this generation.   Remember,after 2008, Pierce's legacy was raised quite a bit even though he didn't belong in the all-time great discussion.

He is close.


I still have him behind

Duncan
Mchale
KG
Barkley
Malone


About 6th. 

This order looks spot on.

I think Dirk is a great player even ranking 6th next to those guys I think it is still a little bit of a drop off.

Those other 5 were exceptional at other facets beside scoring like defense, rebounding, passing.

The only thing Dirk has that they don't is the 3 ball