Is this collusion?

[barefacedmonk]

a player recently told me LeBron had contacted him about possibly joining forces in the offseason, though he was cryptic about where he actually might play. The text began: “Yo, this is King James.”

“I was like, ‘Give me a break. You’re going to call yourself that?’ ”the player said, on condition that his name not be used.

“Do you think Michael Jordan texts people by starting with, ‘Yo, this is His Airness.’ Come on, get over yourself.”

Link

If this is indeed true, can NBA take action against LeBron and/or Heat?

[Chris]

It's a good question.  I would say no, since this sounds like it happened before he was a member of the Heat, and there is no rule against free agents talking with each other about playing together.

However, even if it was when he was on the Heat, I honestly have no problem with it.  He is not making a contract offer, and he is not the GM.  I have nothing wrong with players talking to each other about stuff like that, and trying to recruit each other.  To me, it should only be a problem if it is something coming from the actual organization.

[mgent]

Hahaha.

It's so sad that this could be true.




You can't really prove this type of stuff.  James and Wade obviously teamed up AT LEAST a year before this season.  No one was ever gonna prove that.

[Chris]

 No one was ever gonna prove that.

But why's that a problem?  If you are working under a contract, and your friend works for another company, can't he talk to you about you joining him once your contract is up?

[mgent]

 No one was ever gonna prove that.

But why's that a problem?  If you are working under a contract, and your friend works for another company, can't he talk to you about you joining him once your contract is up?

I'm not saying it necessarily is.  But if I was a Cleveland fan I'd probably be a little ticked off that he was all set to leave and go start his legacy in Miami when he still could've won the title that year in Cleveland.  Stuff like him changing number because no one deserves to wear Jordan's number when the real reason was he was just planning ahead.

[PosImpos]

No one was ever gonna prove that.

But why's that a problem?  If you are working under a contract, and your friend works for another company, can't he talk to you about you joining him once your contract is up?

It's a problem because the NBA is not part of a free market economy where workers are free to go from one employer to another like that.  Analogies like this one are faulty for that reason.  NBA players are not regular employees, nor are they paid as if they are.  There's no reason to think they ought to be treated as such.

Players getting together and deciding that they are going to play together -- especially if they decide they will play on a specific team -- prior to free agency and negotiations with team officials is a problem because it undermines the ability of GMs to build winning teams. 

It's not really just the talking that is the main problem, though; it's the fact that they were able to get to unrestricted free agency and all sign with the same team after having decided that they would.  It's the fact that all Miami had to do is clear enough cap space to sign them (I won't speculate as to whether Pat Riley was aware ahead of time that Wade, James, and Bosh had an agreement, though it wouldn't surprise me at all).

I want an NBA where great teams are built from the ground up by smart GMs and well-run organizations that are good at scouting, acquiring, and developing talent.  I don't want an NBA where great teams are created when (as Rick Reilly puts it) the best kids on the playground decide to get together and beat up everybody else.

If a team wants to amass 3 superstars the way the Heat did, they should be prepared to trade away assets they've put together and developed over a long period of time (like the Celtics did).

[huzy]

I would argue that Miami DID trade away assets to make these deals possible.

Michael Beasley and Daquan Cook were both traded for pennies on the dollar so Miami could get under the cap.

Although it wasn't a direct swap, similar to the deals the C's made for KG and Ray, they still got the short end of these deals in order to aquire a deferred asset (cap space)
 
Also, credit Pat Riley for presenting a compelling enough case for Bosh and the Queen. Altough selling the city of Miami to a Clevelander and Torontonian is like selling water in the desert, there was still a sales pitch that was effectively put together by that management group...a la Red Auerbach.

[BballTim]

Also, credit Pat Riley for presenting a compelling enough case for Bosh and the Queen. Altough selling the city of Miami to a Clevelander and Torontonian is like selling water in the desert, there was still a sales pitch that was effectively put together by that management group...a la Red Auerbach.

  I thought they decided to play together a few years ago, on team USA or something. Giving Riley much credit (if any) for getting James and Bosh seems a little misplaced. It's somewhat like using a great pickup line on a hooker.

[mgent]

I would argue that Miami DID trade away assets to make these deals possible.

Michael Beasley and Daquan Cook were both traded for pennies on the dollar so Miami could get under the cap.

Although it wasn't a direct swap, similar to the deals the C's made for KG and Ray, they still got the short end of these deals in order to aquire a deferred asset (cap space)
 
Also, credit Pat Riley for presenting a compelling enough case for Bosh and the Queen. Altough selling the city of Miami to a Clevelander and Torontonian is like selling water in the desert, there was still a sales pitch that was effectively put together by that management group...a la Red Auerbach.

They pretty much gave up Michael Beasley so they could sign Haslem.

[Fan from VT]

Not to mention, the franchise had to intentionally be bad for a while by showing self restraint to not use MLE, etc., to stay relevant in the short term.

Sure, it sounds simple to "just clear space," but how many teams have actually successfully cleared enough capspace to add two max FA's to one superstar already in place? None, because it's hard for GMs to tank enough in the short term to allow themselves capspace a year or two later. They (really the owners) have terrible self control.

[Who]

Players talk to other players. Players are always going to have conversations about the idea of playing together. 

There is no realistic way to stop it. Adding rules that you can't enforce is pointless.

[mgent]

Not to mention, the franchise had to intentionally be bad for a while by showing self restraint to not use MLE, etc., to stay relevant in the short term.

Sure, it sounds simple to "just clear space," but how many teams have actually successfully cleared enough capspace to add two max FA's to one superstar already in place? None, because it's hard for GMs to tank enough in the short term to allow themselves capspace a year or two later. They (really the owners) have terrible self control.

Yeah the cap space was already there, I remember looking at it and Wade, Chalmers and Beasley were the only guys under contract way before LeBron became a free agent.  I was thinking "why go to New York by yourself when you can team up with Wade?"  Now I think New York was just a smoke screen.

I'm not just saying this because it's how it played out.  I literally couldn't understand why the Heat had all this cap space and nobody was taking about them as a possible destination.  I don't think it's a coincidence that they had everybody coming off the books the year LeBron was a FA, when they already had a superstar that they could've been building around the second Shaq left.

[csfansince60s]

[

I want an NBA where great teams are built from the ground up by smart GMs and well-run organizations that are good at scouting, acquiring, and developing talent.  I don't want an NBA where great teams are created when (as Rick Reilly puts it) the best kids on the playground decide to get together and beat up everybody else.

If a team wants to amass 3 superstars the way the Heat did, they should be prepared to trade away assets they've put together and developed over a long period of time (like the Celtics did).

+1.....well said...I share that opinion

[Roy H.]

Players talk to other players. Players are always going to have conversations about the idea of playing together. 

There is no realistic way to stop it. Adding rules that you can't enforce is pointless.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I see it.  I think there are rules currently in place, but you can't really stop it.

The only thing I would have an issue with would be if Pat Riley went to Lebron, and asked him to contact a player on his behalf while that player was still under contract.  I'm sure that happens, too, but to me that's a clearer case of tampering.

[European NBA fan]

Not to mention, the franchise had to intentionally be bad for a while by showing self restraint to not use MLE, etc., to stay relevant in the short term.

Sure, it sounds simple to "just clear space," but how many teams have actually successfully cleared enough capspace to add two max FA's to one superstar already in place? None, because it's hard for GMs to tank enough in the short term to allow themselves capspace a year or two later. They (really the owners) have terrible self control.

Yeah the cap space was already there, I remember looking at it and Wade, Chalmers and Beasley were the only guys under contract way before LeBron became a free agent.  I was thinking "why go to New York by yourself when you can team up with Wade?"  Now I think New York was just a smoke screen.

I'm not just saying this because it's how it played out.  I literally couldn't understand why the Heat had all this cap space and nobody was taking about them as a possible destination.  I don't think it's a coincidence that they had everybody coming off the books the year LeBron was a FA, when they already had a superstar that they could've been building around the second Shaq left.

I agree. And I believe that this was the real reason behind "The Decision". Why would you make a whole TV show about something that obviously wasn't decided in the short time LeBron was a free agent? I have always thought that the show was another smoke screen.

As for collusion. As an NBA player you are not allowed to talk to players from other teams about joining your organization. Of course players talk, but there has to be rules about collusion. If not, a player could turn into a trojan horse within an organization.