rondo for cavs #1?

[GreenBlood23]

hmm seems like guys are severly under estimating how good this kid can be ...that fine with me do so at your own risk of him lighting us up while were rebuilding around rondo..

Or you're severe overatting how good that kid can be

As for the trade idea:

Why would you even propose this?

Also for the fact that there won't be any inexperienced players getting into the rotation this year as Ainge said. Come 2012, Rondo would be the main attraction that's going to help make free agents want to play here, not Kyle Irving.

[Chris]

Pass first PG's traditionally throughout NBA history have had more success in winning then the scoring PG's so many people are craving.  

This is a minor point, but you make it sound like this is a fact.  So, my question is, what "pass first" PG's have won championships over the last 20 years, or even been to the finals?

Rondo is the only to win it, Jason Kidd (who has become one of the best 3 point shooters in the history of the league), Mark Jackson are the only guys I can think of.

On the other hand, for scoring PGs there have been Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Gary Payton, Derek Fisher, Jason Terry, Jameer Nelson, Allen Iverson, Steve Kerr, and Kevin Johnson.

Now, I am not saying this means shoot first guys are better, but I just don't think the opposite is true either.  I think you need great players, and players who compliment each other at the different positions.  The roles can be different at different positions, depending on the needs of the team. 

  Not to quibble with details but I didn't say the past 20 years, you did.  I said traditionally throughout NBA history and I go back quite a bit further then 20 years.

  My mistake is I should have been more specific as I meant guys like, Rose, Paul and D.Willaims (Westbrook), guys who score 20+ppg, teams leading scorer, take a lot of shots and have to date won nothing at the NBA level.  I don't remember any 20+ppg PG other then Isiah Thomas winning an NBA title but I am sure I am probably forgetting someone.  I remember Magic Johnson winning a bunch as the consummate pass first PG. I believe a team is much tougher to defend if the guy who is the primary ball handler looks to facilitate more so then score.

I would argue that those guys didn't lose because they are shoot first PG's, they lost because they didn't have good enough supporting casts, and were not good enough to carry a team that far on their own.

But, like I said, Billups and Parker are both shoot-first PGs, who have won championships recently. 

And not sure why you are throwing Deron Williams and Chris Paul into the same category as Rose and Westbrook.  They are both exceptional PG's who only are scorers to fill the need of their teams. 

[wdleehi]

If the Celtics move the other stars on this team, then yes.


If KG, Ray and Pierce are still here, no.

[paulcowens]

I wish the Cs would trade Rondo just so all this Rondo trade talk would stop.  Most of the fans in Boston don't seem to appreciate what they have, or maybe it's just the ones endlessly talking up trades on blogs.

[Chris]

I wish the Cs would trade Rondo just so all this Rondo trade talk would stop.  Most of the fans in Boston don't seem to appreciate what they have, or maybe it's just the ones endlessly talking up trades on blogs.

Here is the question though...what do they have?

Because I would argue that a lot of us know exactly what we have.  But we also see that it is not going to be enough to get where we need to be, so, we look at him as our most valuable asset, to hopefully turn him into a piece or pieces that might get us closer to "reloading".

[BCelts]

I've pointed this out in other Rondo to the Cavs trade threads, but Cleveland still has Baron Davis under contract for a few more seasons.

Baron Davis' salary (for trade purposes) is the best part of having him on your team these days.

[BballTim]

I wish the Cs would trade Rondo just so all this Rondo trade talk would stop.  Most of the fans in Boston don't seem to appreciate what they have, or maybe it's just the ones endlessly talking up trades on blogs.

Here is the question though...what do they have?

Because I would argue that a lot of us know exactly what we have.  But we also see that it is not going to be enough to get where we need to be, so, we look at him as our most valuable asset, to hopefully turn him into a piece or pieces that might get us closer to "reloading".

  I would argue that there's a healthy amount of debate about exactly what we have, what he's capable of, how much he may improve and whether the pieces people want to turn him into will get us closer to or farther from reloading.

[Chris]

I wish the Cs would trade Rondo just so all this Rondo trade talk would stop.  Most of the fans in Boston don't seem to appreciate what they have, or maybe it's just the ones endlessly talking up trades on blogs.

Here is the question though...what do they have?

Because I would argue that a lot of us know exactly what we have.  But we also see that it is not going to be enough to get where we need to be, so, we look at him as our most valuable asset, to hopefully turn him into a piece or pieces that might get us closer to "reloading".

  I would argue that there's a healthy amount of debate about exactly what we have, what he's capable of, how much he may improve and whether the pieces people want to turn him into will get us closer to or farther from reloading.

Oh, I agree completely.  I am just saying that it does no good to suggest that anyone who proposes a trade of the player means they don't understand "what we have". 

In many cases, these trades are being proposed and supported by people who at the very least have a very realistic view of "what we have".  Its all debatable, and most of it comes down to personal analysis of the players, and personal theories on how teams should be built.

None of this is black and white, and it is all a matter of opinion.  But nothing good comes from blanket statements suggesting that one side doesn't know what they are talking about. 

[BballTim]

I wish the Cs would trade Rondo just so all this Rondo trade talk would stop.  Most of the fans in Boston don't seem to appreciate what they have, or maybe it's just the ones endlessly talking up trades on blogs.

Here is the question though...what do they have?

Because I would argue that a lot of us know exactly what we have.  But we also see that it is not going to be enough to get where we need to be, so, we look at him as our most valuable asset, to hopefully turn him into a piece or pieces that might get us closer to "reloading".

  I would argue that there's a healthy amount of debate about exactly what we have, what he's capable of, how much he may improve and whether the pieces people want to turn him into will get us closer to or farther from reloading.

Oh, I agree completely.  I am just saying that it does no good to suggest that anyone who proposes a trade of the player means they don't understand "what we have". 

In many cases, these trades are being proposed and supported by people who at the very least have a very realistic view of "what we have".  Its all debatable, and most of it comes down to personal analysis of the players, and personal theories on how teams should be built.

None of this is black and white, and it is all a matter of opinion.  But nothing good comes from blanket statements suggesting that one side doesn't know what they are talking about. 

  I don't think that "Most of the fans in Boston don't seem to appreciate what they have, or maybe it's just the ones endlessly talking up trades on blogs" is the blanket statement you do. some trades  are proposed and supported by people who at the very least have a very realistic view of "what we have", and some trades are proposed (and all trades are supported) by people that would trade Rondo for Ray Felton in a heartbeat.

[Vermont Green]

I may get acused of not knowing what we have but I doubt CLE would trade the #1 pick for Rondo.  It seems to me to be a trade that doesn't help either team (and no, I would not trade Rondo for Raymond Felton).

[Chris]

I wish the Cs would trade Rondo just so all this Rondo trade talk would stop.  Most of the fans in Boston don't seem to appreciate what they have, or maybe it's just the ones endlessly talking up trades on blogs.

Here is the question though...what do they have?

Because I would argue that a lot of us know exactly what we have.  But we also see that it is not going to be enough to get where we need to be, so, we look at him as our most valuable asset, to hopefully turn him into a piece or pieces that might get us closer to "reloading".

  I would argue that there's a healthy amount of debate about exactly what we have, what he's capable of, how much he may improve and whether the pieces people want to turn him into will get us closer to or farther from reloading.

Oh, I agree completely.  I am just saying that it does no good to suggest that anyone who proposes a trade of the player means they don't understand "what we have".  

In many cases, these trades are being proposed and supported by people who at the very least have a very realistic view of "what we have".  Its all debatable, and most of it comes down to personal analysis of the players, and personal theories on how teams should be built.

None of this is black and white, and it is all a matter of opinion.  But nothing good comes from blanket statements suggesting that one side doesn't know what they are talking about.  

  I don't think that "Most of the fans in Boston don't seem to appreciate what they have, or maybe it's just the ones endlessly talking up trades on blogs" is the blanket statement you do. some trades  are proposed and supported by people who at the very least have a very realistic view of "what we have", and some trades are proposed (and all trades are supported) by people that would trade Rondo for Ray Felton in a heartbeat.

I think we went over this before, but I would just ignore anyone who would trade Rondo straight up for Felton.  Whether they are being logical  or not, clearly you are far enough apart from them in your analysis, that nothing good can come from addressing them.  

That is looking at the very end of the bell curve, and is not a good basis for any argument or blanked statement (and saying "most fans in boston", or "the ones endlessly talking up trades on blogs" are absolutely blanket statements, that are lumping a huge number of people in with the fringe few, who have extreme views.

[BballTim]

I wish the Cs would trade Rondo just so all this Rondo trade talk would stop.  Most of the fans in Boston don't seem to appreciate what they have, or maybe it's just the ones endlessly talking up trades on blogs.

Here is the question though...what do they have?

Because I would argue that a lot of us know exactly what we have.  But we also see that it is not going to be enough to get where we need to be, so, we look at him as our most valuable asset, to hopefully turn him into a piece or pieces that might get us closer to "reloading".

  I would argue that there's a healthy amount of debate about exactly what we have, what he's capable of, how much he may improve and whether the pieces people want to turn him into will get us closer to or farther from reloading.

Oh, I agree completely.  I am just saying that it does no good to suggest that anyone who proposes a trade of the player means they don't understand "what we have".  

In many cases, these trades are being proposed and supported by people who at the very least have a very realistic view of "what we have".  Its all debatable, and most of it comes down to personal analysis of the players, and personal theories on how teams should be built.

None of this is black and white, and it is all a matter of opinion.  But nothing good comes from blanket statements suggesting that one side doesn't know what they are talking about.  

  I don't think that "Most of the fans in Boston don't seem to appreciate what they have, or maybe it's just the ones endlessly talking up trades on blogs" is the blanket statement you do. some trades  are proposed and supported by people who at the very least have a very realistic view of "what we have", and some trades are proposed (and all trades are supported) by people that would trade Rondo for Ray Felton in a heartbeat.

I think we went over this before, but I would just ignore anyone who would trade Rondo straight up for Felton.  Whether they are being logical  or not, clearly you are far enough apart from them in your analysis, that nothing good can come from addressing them.  

That is looking at the very end of the bell curve, and is not a good basis for any argument or blanked statement (and saying "most fans in boston", or "the ones endlessly talking up trades on blogs" are absolutely blanket statements, that are lumping a huge number of people in with the fringe few, who have extreme views.

  Again, I was pointing out the ends of the spectrum, not saying that most people hold that extreme view.

[winsomme]

I like Kyrie Irving a lot and believe he will be a tremendous PG in the league but the last thing I want to do at this point is burn what could be our final Title run with the big 3 by trading for a rookie PG.

If Rondo hadn't dislocated his elbow, that would have IMO been a much more competitive MIA series. also, I think Danny deserves another shot at fixing the C position thus putting us right in line for a serious run next season...(crossing fingers that there is no extended bargaining dispute, that is).

as for trading Rondo, I think the only trade I would seriously consider at this point is CP3. he also is an injury risk at this point, but he runs an offense + he can score and defend. he also has that edge to his game (like Rondo) that many talented players lack...