Does this year's playoffs show that Rondo is (at least) on par with Rose?

[soap07]

  And, honestly, what's more important? How well Rondo shoots and how closely players guard him or how much of an overall impact he has on the offense? I'd say the latter but that seems to put my in a clear minority.

If Rondo did such a good job running the offense compared to other point guards in the league, why was Boston's offense below average this year? Yeah, he did a great job creating open shots for teammates but let's not kid ourselves that his own lack of scoring ability hurt the offense.

[greenpride32]

  And, honestly, what's more important? How well Rondo shoots and how closely players guard him or how much of an overall impact he has on the offense? I'd say the latter but that seems to put my in a clear minority.

Mike Bibby was able to shut Rondo down (a healthy one before the game 4 injury) by playing zone on him.  This creates less space and passing lanes for the rest of the players.  Also last I checked Bibby was not known for any defense.  I'm going to have to say not having ot guard one player makes a substantial difference; especially on a team that relies more on ball movement than isolation basketbal.

[BballTim]

And to pile on to the argument of GM's, Coachs, Writers opinions, Coach Krzyzewski liked Billups, Westbrook, and Rose for his team over a fully healthy and rested Rondo.  That is just one vote but a fairly well credentialled vote and a vote by someone who got to see him for a lengthy head-to-head tryout.

  By the way, should we also assume that you think the big men that coach K picked are the best bigs in the nba?

[BballTim]

  And, honestly, what's more important? How well Rondo shoots and how closely players guard him or how much of an overall impact he has on the offense? I'd say the latter but that seems to put my in a clear minority.

If Rondo did such a good job running the offense compared to other point guards in the league, why was Boston's offense below average this year? Yeah, he did a great job creating open shots for teammates but let's not kid ourselves that his own lack of scoring ability hurt the offense.

  Honestly? Everyone that pays much attention to the team can tell you that the reason we're a below average offensive team is due to weak offensive rebounding. We're one of the best teams aside from that. We're near the league leaders in eFG% and TS%.

[indeedproceed]

  And, honestly, what's more important? How well Rondo shoots and how closely players guard him or how much of an overall impact he has on the offense? I'd say the latter but that seems to put my in a clear minority.

If Rondo did such a good job running the offense compared to other point guards in the league, why was Boston's offense below average this year? Yeah, he did a great job creating open shots for teammates but let's not kid ourselves that his own lack of scoring ability hurt the offense.

  Honestly? Everyone that pays much attention to the team can tell you that the reason we're a below average offensive team is due to weak offensive rebounding. We're one of the best teams aside from that. We're near the league leaders in eFG% and TS%.

I pay a lot of attention to the Celtics, and I'd say their offensive issues go a lot deeper than just a lack of offensive rebounding.

[greenpride32]

And to pile on to the argument of GM's, Coachs, Writers opinions, Coach Krzyzewski liked Billups, Westbrook, and Rose for his team over a fully healthy and rested Rondo.  That is just one vote but a fairly well credentialled vote and a vote by someone who got to see him for a lengthy head-to-head tryout.

  By the way, should we also assume that you think the big men that coach K picked are the best bigs in the nba?

Many of the top players of the NBA didn't make themselves available for this team.  Since we are discussing PG's; Rondo coulnd't make the team despite the fact guys like Deron Williams and Chris Paul sat out.  He wasn't even competing against the very best and still didn't make it.  

[BballTim]

  And, honestly, what's more important? How well Rondo shoots and how closely players guard him or how much of an overall impact he has on the offense? I'd say the latter but that seems to put my in a clear minority.

If Rondo did such a good job running the offense compared to other point guards in the league, why was Boston's offense below average this year? Yeah, he did a great job creating open shots for teammates but let's not kid ourselves that his own lack of scoring ability hurt the offense.

  Honestly? Everyone that pays much attention to the team can tell you that the reason we're a below average offensive team is due to weak offensive rebounding. We're one of the best teams aside from that. We're near the league leaders in eFG% and TS%.

I pay a lot of attention to the Celtics, and I'd say their offensive issues go a lot deeper than just a lack of offensive rebounding.

  They're 18th in offense. They're 30th by a wide margin in offensive rebounds. If we were an average offensive team we'd be a top 10 offense. If you ignore the effects of offensive rebounding we'd be a top 6 offense.

[BballTim]

And to pile on to the argument of GM's, Coachs, Writers opinions, Coach Krzyzewski liked Billups, Westbrook, and Rose for his team over a fully healthy and rested Rondo.  That is just one vote but a fairly well credentialled vote and a vote by someone who got to see him for a lengthy head-to-head tryout.

  By the way, should we also assume that you think the big men that coach K picked are the best bigs in the nba?

Many of the top players of the NBA didn't make themselves available for this team.  Since we are discussing PG's; Rondo coulnd't make the team despite the fact guys like Deron Williams and Chris Paul sat out.  He wasn't even competing against the very best and still didn't make it.  

  Because, again, they don't need a point guard to run their offense.

[soap07]

  They're 18th in offense. They're 30th by a wide margin in offensive rebounds. If we were an average offensive team we'd be a top 10 offense. If you ignore the effects of offensive rebounding we'd be a top 6 offense.

They're also 28th in turnovers - which is largely due to Rondo. The team was one of the slowest teams in the league too and that's on Rondo to create the pace. Those two issues are far more responsible than the offensive rebounding...considering the C's were number one in the league in field goal percentage. Why would having better offensive rebounders help if the team makes its shots anyways?

The team was also in the bottom tier average in getting to the line - this is obviously not all Rondo's fault. The team in general is a jump shooting team - but Rondo definitely added to the problem because he was afraid to go to the line and isn't a good scorer. Additionally, this was a team that didn't make all that many free throws either partially because Rondo couldn't make them.

[indeedproceed]

 And, honestly, what's more important? How well Rondo shoots and how closely players guard him or how much of an overall impact he has on the offense? I'd say the latter but that seems to put my in a clear minority.

If Rondo did such a good job running the offense compared to other point guards in the league, why was Boston's offense below average this year? Yeah, he did a great job creating open shots for teammates but let's not kid ourselves that his own lack of scoring ability hurt the offense.

  Honestly? Everyone that pays much attention to the team can tell you that the reason we're a below average offensive team is due to weak offensive rebounding. We're one of the best teams aside from that. We're near the league leaders in eFG% and TS%.

I pay a lot of attention to the Celtics, and I'd say their offensive issues go a lot deeper than just a lack of offensive rebounding.

  They're 18th in offense. They're 30th by a wide margin in offensive rebounds. If we were an average offensive team we'd be a top 10 offense. If you ignore the effects of offensive rebounding we'd be a top 6 offense.

Right, but if they were a better offensive rebounding team, that means they put more effort into offensive rebounding, which means they put more guys around the rim, which means less guys get back, which means worse defense, which means less advantageous offensive sets and transition buckets, which means a less efficient offense.

And beyond that theory, I think there are bigger issues on offense for the Cs than offensive rebounding.

[missyP]

To everybody who thinks Rondo is at par with Rose, imagine the Celtics GM calling you for a Rondo-Rose straight up swap. My reaction would be a bunch of expletives before I hang up, I don't know about yours...

[KungPoweChicken]

And to pile on to the argument of GM's, Coachs, Writers opinions, Coach Krzyzewski liked Billups, Westbrook, and Rose for his team over a fully healthy and rested Rondo.  That is just one vote but a fairly well credentialled vote and a vote by someone who got to see him for a lengthy head-to-head tryout.

  By the way, should we also assume that you think the big men that coach K picked are the best bigs in the nba?

Many of the top players of the NBA didn't make themselves available for this team.  Since we are discussing PG's; Rondo coulnd't make the team despite the fact guys like Deron Williams and Chris Paul sat out.  He wasn't even competing against the very best and still didn't make it.  

  Because, again, they don't need a point guard to run their offense.

That's why he wasn't chosen. They wanted more versatile players. Players who could offer more than "set up the offense."

[BballTim]

And to pile on to the argument of GM's, Coachs, Writers opinions, Coach Krzyzewski liked Billups, Westbrook, and Rose for his team over a fully healthy and rested Rondo.  That is just one vote but a fairly well credentialled vote and a vote by someone who got to see him for a lengthy head-to-head tryout.

  By the way, should we also assume that you think the big men that coach K picked are the best bigs in the nba?

Many of the top players of the NBA didn't make themselves available for this team.  Since we are discussing PG's; Rondo coulnd't make the team despite the fact guys like Deron Williams and Chris Paul sat out.  He wasn't even competing against the very best and still didn't make it.  

  Because, again, they don't need a point guard to run their offense.

That's why he wasn't chosen. They wanted more versatile players. Players who could offer more than "set up the offense."

  On one hand Rondo does offer other things like defense and rebounding. On the other hand he didn't choose players that offer *more* than "set up the offense", he chose players that offer other things *instead of* "set up the offense". Outside shooting and iso offense come to mind. I don't think that really qualifies as more versatile.

[KungPoweChicken]

And to pile on to the argument of GM's, Coachs, Writers opinions, Coach Krzyzewski liked Billups, Westbrook, and Rose for his team over a fully healthy and rested Rondo.  That is just one vote but a fairly well credentialled vote and a vote by someone who got to see him for a lengthy head-to-head tryout.

  By the way, should we also assume that you think the big men that coach K picked are the best bigs in the nba?

Many of the top players of the NBA didn't make themselves available for this team.  Since we are discussing PG's; Rondo coulnd't make the team despite the fact guys like Deron Williams and Chris Paul sat out.  He wasn't even competing against the very best and still didn't make it.  

  Because, again, they don't need a point guard to run their offense.

That's why he wasn't chosen. They wanted more versatile players. Players who could offer more than "set up the offense."

  On one hand Rondo does offer other things like defense and rebounding. On the other hand he didn't choose players that offer *more* than "set up the offense", he chose players that offer other things *instead of* "set up the offense". Outside shooting and iso offense come to mind. I don't think that really qualifies as more versatile.

Coach K obviously thought Rose's and Westbrook's superior athleticism was a better asset for defense and rebounding in his system, which it was. Westbrook is a better rebounder than Rondo. That's just a statistical fact.

[guava_wrench]

  Don't know what these playoffs said about Rondo because he was hurt and didn't play up to the level he has in past post seasons.

  What these playoffs said about Rose is he is yet another NBA player who has been over hyped by the media because he can score a lot of points but in reality doesn't do anything other then score to help his team win games.  I hate to compare him to Iverson because I do think he is a better p[layer then Iverson but that is exactly who he looked like.  If you need to take 30 shots to score 30 points you're just not scoring efficiently therefore you are probably hurting your team as much as you are helping it.

  The media, specifically ESPN has been over rating/over hyping scorers for twenty years.

Fans, GMs, all media outlets -- they ALL over-hype scorers.