Watching Haslem Frustrates me

[Marcus13]

I hate the Heat but Haslem is one of my favorite players ; true OG

[pearljammer10]

Haslem is the perfect glue guy for a championship team, and he already has been with the ring he won already. He can play 20 minutes and have a huge impact on the game in many many ways. I would love to have him on the C's. Big Baby should be providing a similar role but he just isnt good enough to do so.

[LB3533]

For their careers....

Haslem's per 36 are something like 12/9 on 50% shooting.

Davis's per 36 are 13/7 on 45% shooting.

If Davis were able to sustain a good playing weight and continued to play within a solid role for a team, he could play 30-36 minutes per night and his game would not suffer as much.

If you check bballreference.com and look at Davis's advanced playoff statistics he is every bit, if not more of a "glue guy" than Haslem has been in the playoffs.

Davis has had 2 post seasons of larger sample size games of about 15 per rating.

Haslem has had 1 such post season in a smaller sample size games.

1 bad post season shouldn't cover up what Davis has done in his career for the C's.

This is almost like Nomar's bad month of the RS and bad playoffs in '03....it just isn't fair to pin the "what have you done for me lately" tag on players.

[MBunge]

fights for rebounds all the time, has a nice simple little jumpshot from 15-18 ft out, takes charges, tons of productive energy and hustle.

That's exactly what Glen Davis does.

He certainly didn't do any of that in the playoffs and he didn't do much of it for the last month of the regular season, either.  And while Baby generally gives an effort, we've all seen him go through stretches where he's not just ineffective but actively harmful to the team when he's on the court.

Mike

[chambers]

funny how quickly people forget the big baby of 09 and 2010.

Just leave him out to dry after a bad 6 months.

Could we have made the finals and almost beaten LA last year without big baby?

Highly unlikely,

Big Baby's failure to keep in shape and lose weight will kill his career. Has nothing to do with how well he played in 2009 and 2010.

You obviously know he was playing injured right?

Like I said, the guy has been the ultimate bench glue guy and then has a bad 6 months and everyone throws him under the bus.

Boston is a tough crowd to please.

[MBunge]

funny how quickly people forget the big baby of 09 and 2010.

Just leave him out to dry after a bad 6 months.

Could we have made the finals and almost beaten LA last year without big baby?

Highly unlikely,

Big Baby's failure to keep in shape and lose weight will kill his career. Has nothing to do with how well he played in 2009 and 2010.

You obviously know he was playing injured right?

Like I said, the guy has been the ultimate bench glue guy and then has a bad 6 months and everyone throws him under the bus.

Boston is a tough crowd to please.

Baby's never been as good a rebounder as someone with his bulk and quickness should be.  He's also frequently been an offensive black hole who either jacks up jumpers every time the ball touches his hands or does the same stupid things that end up getting his shot blocked or blowing a point blank lay up.

I think folks like me are tough on Baby because unlike most players who either play well or are ineffective, Baby can play well, be ineffective or be actively harmful to the team while he's on the court.

Mike

[ScoobyDoo]

If Big Baby would go on the Perkins program, he wouldn't have to accept his role as a "role player". His role would change and he'd probably be able to averge 15 and 8 a night, if not more.

But therein lies the rub. He's apparently not disciplined enough to maximize his body so he can maximize his talent and his career. Too bad, because I think he could be a one man wrecking crew if he dropped about 25 pounds of the baby fat and got cut.

Oh, one other thing. Haslem isn't a dirty player but make no mistake about it, he's got a nasty streak and he's a true "tough guy" in the mold of Horace Grant or Tony Allen.

This is also something Big Baby lacks big time.

If Baby would lose 25 lbs and get ripped and then if you cold put Leon Powe's head on him, I think he's easily a 20 and 10 guy.

[kozlodoev]

fights for rebounds all the time, has a nice simple little jumpshot from 15-18 ft out, takes charges, tons of productive energy and hustle.

That's exactly what Glen Davis does.

He certainly didn't do any of that in the playoffs and he didn't do much of it for the last month of the regular season, either.  And while Baby generally gives an effort, we've all seen him go through stretches where he's not just ineffective but actively harmful to the team when he's on the court.

Mike

You can argue he didn't do it with great success recently -- but that's what he does: shoots mid-range jumpers, takes charges, and hustles around.

[MBz]

I know theyre around the same height and obviously Haslem is much lighter in weight but doesnt Haslem have longer arms too.  I feel like Davis has t-rex arms which hurts him a lot with his defensive rebounding.

[ThaPreacher]

Difference between the two,Haslem knows his role and accepts it,Baby doesn't accept who he really is,a role player.tp

Haslem, a bit of a punk and limited offensively.  But with Baby:
To some degree, you have to blame the point guard and the coaches.  BABY, shoots those deep jump shots because the point guard gives him the ball, and the coaching staff encourages it/allows it.  Its not hard to figure out.  He had a great deal of success in the regular season.  He has become more versatile offensively and has improved his skills over the last 4 seasons.
Therefore his role has increased.  I think the problem is that as it has increased the lines are a bit blurry as to what it is that is expected of him.  Clearly, his trash talk (I warned everyone about it on one post) about the Celtics bench being superior to the Heat is a reflection of his grandiose immaturity.   What's next a brawl with his friend when he is out on the town drinking.  Ooops, been there done that.  I don't think its fair to negate the positives of Glen Davis.  He was a 2nd round pick after all.
But in moving forward I would trade him before his delusions of grandeur and his appetite eat us out of house and home.
But if we keep him, Doc and his staff need to define his role, and Rondo has to stop feeding him the ball.  

[ScoobyDoo]

Big Baby struggled in the second half of the year but prior to that he has played solid for us. I actually like him on the team but my three main gripes, and consequently why I wouldn't be heart broken if he left, are:

1. He just doesn't seem to have the discipline to get in ultimate condition, which would be to his own benefit, as much as the team's.

2. He has a hard time accepting his role.

3. He doesn't have a mean streak. He should be body slamming guys in the paint - Hammering guys when they come down the lane and laying his backside and his body on guys on the boards on both ends of the floor.

The problem with baby's rebounding efficiency is not the length of his arms. It's the following:

1. He doesn't body people up using his obvious weight advantage. He doesn't box out. I watched him get pushed around by Jared Jeffries  in the Knick series. No one should be pushing him around.

2. He doesn't have quite enough lift - lift that he would be helped immensely with by getting cut.

Some of the best rebounders in the league are undersized in one way or another. But they remain strong rebounders because of aggression and fundamentals.

      

[MBunge]

fights for rebounds all the time, has a nice simple little jumpshot from 15-18 ft out, takes charges, tons of productive energy and hustle.

That's exactly what Glen Davis does.

He certainly didn't do any of that in the playoffs and he didn't do much of it for the last month of the regular season, either.  And while Baby generally gives an effort, we've all seen him go through stretches where he's not just ineffective but actively harmful to the team when he's on the court.

Mike

You can argue he didn't do it with great success recently -- but that's what he does: shoots mid-range jumpers, takes charges, and hustles around.

Most recently, he stunk up the court and was a far bigger reason the Celtics are on vacation now than the lack of Perk.

But I've got to echo ThaPreacher and say a lot of the fault for Baby's poor play has to go to Doc and Rondo.  There is NO reason for Baby to get the ball in the post more than KG, Jermaine or Krstic.  And the fact that Baby continues to try and power the ball up and over taller players, even though it's been conclusively proven that he can't do it on anything like a consistent basis, is a sign of poor coaching.

Mike

[Celtic#9]

For me, this is what seemed to happen. At the start of the season Baby was trying to prove himself, he was taking charges, getting in the lane, diving after balls. His minutes increased and everyone was legitimately impressed. So impressed in fact 6th Man of the Year talk began. Then he seemed to get some "swag". The "I'm gonna get my shots because I'm the best second unit player" attitude. He got too comfortable. He seemed to want his shots too much. He seemed to act less like a hustle guy. I'm willing to bet the when Udonis Haslem goes 0-5 all 5 shots were either putbacks, wide-open jumpers in the middle or end of the shot clock, or low post moves in the the scheme of the offense. That is who Baby is. He isn't a starter, and on a good team he never will be.

[kozlodoev]

For me, this is what seemed to happen. At the start of the season Baby was trying to prove himself, he was taking charges, getting in the lane, diving after balls. His minutes increased and everyone was legitimately impressed. So impressed in fact 6th Man of the Year talk began. Then he seemed to get some "swag". The "I'm gonna get my shots because I'm the best second unit player" attitude. He got too comfortable. He seemed to want his shots too much. He seemed to act less like a hustle guy. I'm willing to bet the when Udonis Haslem goes 0-5 all 5 shots were either putbacks, wide-open jumpers in the middle or end of the shot clock, or low post moves in the the scheme of the offense. That is who Baby is. He isn't a starter, and on a good team he never will be.

No, this isn't what happened at all. What happened is the second unit developed a mentality of "Eh, if we can't do jack with the ball, we can always toss it to Big Baby with 5 seconds on the clock -- he always seems to be able to do something with it".

[MBunge]

For me, this is what seemed to happen. At the start of the season Baby was trying to prove himself, he was taking charges, getting in the lane, diving after balls. His minutes increased and everyone was legitimately impressed. So impressed in fact 6th Man of the Year talk began. Then he seemed to get some "swag". The "I'm gonna get my shots because I'm the best second unit player" attitude. He got too comfortable. He seemed to want his shots too much. He seemed to act less like a hustle guy. I'm willing to bet the when Udonis Haslem goes 0-5 all 5 shots were either putbacks, wide-open jumpers in the middle or end of the shot clock, or low post moves in the the scheme of the offense. That is who Baby is. He isn't a starter, and on a good team he never will be.

No, this isn't what happened at all. What happened is the second unit developed a mentality of "Eh, if we can't do jack with the ball, we can always toss it to Big Baby with 5 seconds on the clock -- he always seems to be able to do something with it".

The line up that spent the most minutes together on the court this past season was the Big 4 and Baby.  The 5th most frequent line up was Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Shaq and Baby and the 7th most frequent line up was Robinson, Allen, Pierce, KG and Baby.

So, what you describe really wasn't all that common.

Mike